Mishelle

My 2 cents on the list: (1) Wide availability of cheap birth control. This gave women the option to control their own fertility and also to level the playing field a bit with men as far as multiple partners and riskier sexual behavior. I'd just like to point out that women used to be the ones that felt interchangeable and disposable. I think this is a push-back reaction on the part of women to say to men: "See how it feels!" Or, What's good for the goose is good for the gander (or vice versa I guess) Not right, totally adolescent, but that's my opinion. I know growing up I used to long to have the same sexual freedom as boys and was appalled and resentful at the enormous double-standard which affected every level of my life down to my curfew and what I was allowed to wear to school. (2) No fault divorce. Sure there are lots of women who leave a marriage for "lack of satisfaction" and, a lot of men cheat, are addicted to porn, are emotionally distant and uncommunicative, not to mention abusive. This one ultimately serves both partners equally, like the birth control. Children of course are the ones who suffer most. (3) definitely. (4) most definitely. (5) and (6) seem the same to me as (3) and (4).

Today's post, again inspired by conversations here! http://peacecorpsworldwide.org/homesteading/2013/11/30/a-requiem-to-love-andor-reason-andor-liberty/

I've spoken to a male friend about this subject and he's more my age but still "in the field" a bit, at least far more than me. He agrees that the dating world has completely turned upside down in the last 2 decades. I find this fascinating. There's something that feels to me quite unsustainable in this picture--I've always sympathized with men's rights, even before there was a movement--but this seems like a crucial issue for sure. It's heartbreaking for me to see the genders so at odds with each other, what a fucking disaster. I just want to say thank you all for opening my eyes to these issues and I continue to watch and learn, also knowing that this cannot continue, it will change because it's just too ridiculous that men and women wouldn't make natural wonderful fulfilling evolutionary partners, what a shame, this must shift. You've given me some food for thought what I might be able to do about it! I think the first step might be to apologize for feminism. We went overboard, quite obviously. I'm so fucking sorry. I am one woman, former feminist, who will work to rectify this absurdity!

What an interesting discussion y'all have going on here! I can't help but chime in, because I'm curious and baffled. It seems things have really changed since I've played the field! This idea that men are the performers traditionally, as LP wrote, I'm not sure I understand this. The Don Juan character, which is what this PAU reminds of, became famous because it was so very different from the norms-- this sort of male peacock behavior. It was something you might see a bit in aristocratic circles, but certainly not among commoners. The women are the "performers" traditionally, we spend all the time on getting dolled up, trying to seem flawless, learning to dance and play the piano, becoming a good hostess, trying to be compliant and laugh at the right places and ask the right questions and be sure not to talk about ourselves too much, to pay attention to our body language to make sure we are saying just enough, and certainly not too much. The joking and laughing has nothing to do with entertaining women, it was traditionally to keep the focus of the conversation on the man and amp his ego. So, the dating world has completely turned on it's head in the last decades if I'm understanding correctly?

What a catastrophic set of challenges you are trying to face, Wall, it's very raw and difficult to read but I think it's still good for you to get it out in whatever way feels right to you. It's nearly impossible to do these things correctly. It's very clear how distressed you feel and no one here will really be able to help you but yourself, but know that yes, there are people listening and people who care and who have been in similarly low positions. There's a couple things that immediately stand out for me and I hope my words might offer some wisdom or comfort. You are speaking in a very victimized language, and in this mindset you will not be able to see possibilities, only more and more problems keeping your position feeling impossible. First you must know there is a solution. Then you must feel you can affect change. Then you must sacrifice to make those changes. Easier said than done, right?! But just take it one step at a time, don't look all the way up the mountain right now. First you need to get some stability in your life, and a therapist. You made some poor choices that led to this mess and you've got to get to the bottom of that before you do anything else. This will help you get out of victimization mode. Is there no one in your life to help you with the immediate burdens, like a better job or place to stay? Try to write us a new rant focused only on solutions, how far can you get? And I would definitely call this a state of crisis, personally

I've know lots of students with similar issues of indecisiveness and doubt. How did your therapy appointment go? I was noticing how your interests are really varied--it's not often I see a student with skills and interests in both the sciences and foreign languages. Have you thought about this before? What in particular draws you to each of your interests? What about working with people vs. working alone? Have you ever read the book "What color is your parachute?" -- really good one for streamlining professional capacities and direction. Good luck!

My new all-time fav! Stef on writing. Absolutely brilliant! Cracks me up that his fav books are also my own, and one of them, Room with a View, is really not all that well-known. 899: Stef on Writing: An Interview

I think Charlotte Iserbyt has a lot of good info: https://www.tragedyandhope.com/deliberatedumbingdownofamerica-charlotteiserbyt/ I really admire efforts to homeschool and think it's just awesome when anyone goes that route!

What a thoughtful reply e Yer, thank you! I especially resonated with: "to the point where they can't criticize the government anymore. During the war crime that was the invasion of Iraq committed by President Bush and his administration, the U.S. citizens turned their back to the killings of innocent children, women, and men. They even had their own sons, daughters, and husbands join the military and contribute to those murders. They lived in denial during the U.S. occupation of Iraq and while all those murders and torture were being committed. " So true and sad. I'm surrounded by these folks, whether retirees or receiving unemployment or military benefits--it's truly staggering to me. Who's going to criticize their Sugar Daddy?! Before I would keep my mouth shut and smile with a wince, now I make every effort to make them as uncomfortable as possible. Not very enlightened of me, perhaps! But I do want to make clear that I was in Eastern Europe by choice. Indeed there was a great deal of unjust imprisonment, just like here. But everyone knew they were being occupied, everyone knew the elections were a scam and that your neighbors or even your own family might turn you in, get you on "the list"--that's the only real difference between there in the 80s and 90s and here now. We call ourselves free and most people really believe this, I'd venture to guess 95% of Americans call themselves "Free" with great pride. I find this to be a terrible humiliation. As someone on "the List" right now in US I can tell you I've never felt less free in my life and it sickens me. I used to travel regularly, but 2 years ago I boycotted TSA and have not traveled since. This makes me furious. So while I know what you mean by "freedom is a state of mind"--I understand and can also feel the spiritual essence of this statement and I really do appreciate it, like all things beautiful and well-meaning. On the other hand though, it's dangerous, because practically, it's not true. But when you say something so lovely folks want to smile and nod along, instead of really considering what freedom means.

My view of freedom is to not have the blood of others on my hands. I believe no one in the US or UK is free and will not be even with the basics of life provided or in any other way until the death of the Military Industrial Complex. Once that is accomplished then freedom would mean no borders. I've lived in the unraveling "socialism/communism" in eastern europe for several years--people did have the basics, but the motivation of those who lived through it was completely sapped. Providing for one's own basics is actually a fulfilling human drive and at this stage in our social development I feel it's essential--otherwise entire populations and generations of people become very removed from their own means of survival. The best thing about communism was that neighbors really relied on each other for the necessities of life, there was very little waste, and people got very handy at fixing things.

Wow, Sayo, disagree on your approach here. Don't kick a man when he's down. Get curious, want to know, or your just bringing your own shit into the conversation. Tough love (and let's assume that's what you intended) does not replace compassion, there is a human attached to those words, or at least we must assume until otherwise challenged.

Hearing you dear! I wish I had good answers and this sounds to me like a good case for Super Stef. But as I suspect with that title you might be feeling either not ready for that step or more desperate than the wait-list might require, here's my two cents. You are stacking universal problems on top of personal problems for a reason. What happened with your therapy? Unfortunately no matter your worry or desperation you cannot tackle the 4th Reich issue at the moment. A fav teacher once said: "Secure your own safety mask first." I would add, this could take years, work it good and hard. And give yourself a break! Who wants to live in tedium? That you have realized you can't take it is a blessing in disguise (sorry for the religious connotations). Whether it's easy or difficult is not important--is it fulfilling to you? Does it bring you happiness? Do you lose time while doing it you are so absorbed? If not, get the hell out asap! You've mentioned career and world issues, what's deeper? What would Stef ask? hmmmm. . .

My latest post, Obamacare, Consumerism, Addiction, GMOs and Truth -- gratefully inspired by several convos here, and of course Stef http://peacecorpsworldwide.org/homesteading/2013/11/23/how-low-can-we-go/

CC "Both of my sisters need to be in control, if they don't get their own way they get aggressive. Pretty hard for for my brother in laws act like men. They have to be somewhat feminine in nature." I'm sorry to hear this is your experience, I know lots of women with control issues too and this must really be hard to be so close to in your immediate family. Was this also your experience of your mom? Are they so similar your brother-in-laws? How about your dad, is he also forced to be somewhat feminine in nature because of the aggressiveness of your mom?

I see this tendency in the men's movement and I really can understand the motivation--like fight fire with fire. But what women need is not to shoulder the blame instead of men, what is the greater percentage of fault and so on, but for men to be real leaders in getting us out of this mess. Women really really need men, of course I see feminists send the exact opposite message sometimes and I certainly understand why men would get resentful. But when men bitch and complain without taking action I see them acting exactly like how they complain women act (and I agree!). What can we do to make sure men and women stay in this conversation and also take action publicly on their own behalf (which is necessary!) that women can also get behind in support. There is only leading by example in this, blaming and slicing straws is so counter-productive.

Children are being abused. As long as people keep pointing fingers we'll never get to the bottom of it and squeeze it out of the culture. This has been a huge mistake of feminists today, all the finger pointing. If the men start doing that too we will get exactly nowhere new.

Too good not to share! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCAnxsjH2hQ

This trade is closely linked to the human trafficking trade and children become involved at a very young age. Feminists take this issue on with such passion because of the children, most feminists I know have no problem with grown women sexually servicing others for financial gain--they think a woman should be able to do whatever she wants with her own body. The shaming of either john or prostitute is futile, at least we can all agree there! Some important info in this convo I think: The numbers;Update: In 2012 the (UNODC) United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime reports the percentage of child victims had risen in a 3 year span from 20 per cent to 27 per cent. Of every three child victims, two are girls and one is a boy. Gender and age profile of victims detected globally: 59% Women - 14% Men - 17% Girls and 10% were Boys. 600,000 to 800,000 women, children and men bought and sold across international borders every year and exploited for forced labor or commercial sex (U.S. Government) When internal trafficking victims are added to the estimates, the number of victims annually is in the range of 2 to 4 million 50% of those victims are estimated to be children It is estimated that 76 percent of transactions for sex with underage girls start on the Internet 2 million children are subjected to prostitution in the global commercial sex trade (UNICEF) There are 20.9 Million victims of Trafficking World wide as of 2012 1.5 Million victims in the United States The impact; Human trafficking has surpassed the illegal sale of arms Trafficking will surpass the illegal sale of drugs in the next few years Drugs are used once and they are gone. Victims of child trafficking can be used and abused over and over A $32 billion-a-year industry, human trafficking is on the rise and is in all 50 states (U.S. Government) 4.5 Million of trafficked persons are sexually exploited Up to 300,000 Americans under 18 are lured into the commercial sex trade every year From 14,500 - 17,500 of those victims are trafficked into the United States each year Click to read the Needs of Rescued Trafficking Victims According to non-governmental U.S. sources;Average victims age is 11 to 14 Approx 80% are women and children bought, sold and imprisoned in the underground sex service industry Average life span of a victim is 3 to 7 years (found dead from attack, abuse, HIV and other STD's, malnutrition, overdose or suicide) The largest group of at-risk children are runaway, thrown away, or homeless American children who use survival sex to acquire food, shelter, clothing, and other things needed to survive on America's streets. According to the National Runaway Switchboard 1.3 million runaway and homeless youth live on America's streets every day. [5,000 die each year] It would not be surprising to learn that the number of children trafficked in the United States is actually much higher than 300,000. Children are often targeted by traffickers as they are deemed easier to manipulate than adults. More money can be earned by younger girls and boys exploited in sexual exploitation, especially virgins. Pre-pubescent girls are reported to be injected with hormones to bring on puberty. Younger girls are expected to have a greater earning potential, and as such are in greater demand. http://www.arkofhopeforchildren.org/issues/child-trafficking-statistics#.UozRbtKshXw

I think sex and spirituality are intrinsic aspects of the creative drive, to me it makes perfect sense to cultivate them among other avenues like philosophy for evolving the self.

Depak has been a very big influence on me in the past! I've read almost all of his early works and even went to a book signing once, something I've done about twice ever. I really stand by this kind of teaching though I do understand why most in this community would not, and how these teachings can be dangerous. There is the erasure of the ego thing that makes it sound like a sheep-training camp. But, have you ever had this physical experience? If you have not experienced it through some means, whatever it might be, then you cannot understand how powerful it is and how much it alters your life and thinking for the better. What I learned from him and his kind in the New Age circles is that you've got to spend dedicated specific time in the realm of possibility. Where else growing up could I have learned this considering everything in my world was trying to push me into the very distorted box of "reality"? For myself, I could not have found the path of self-knowledge strictly through the intellect. These teachings don't have to make any rational sense at all, that's how powerful they are, just like religion. Transcendence, oneness, connection, united with a higher power, whatever you want to call it, the reality is, lots of people still need it to evolve and stay on the path of the true self. When I'm feeling hopeless and the world is just too far gone and I'm powerless to change it, first I get myself back inside possibility with some meditation or good cheesey new age hype, and afterward I turn Stef back on.

I'm glad! Laughter is almost a great a healer as sex. 13 years? She must have really broken your heart, the witch.

Rather than abstinence I'd think more resourceful than that--have her sign a PCC, (Pre-Coitus Contract), for example.

Anna, I so appreciate reading about your journey in RTR, thanks for sharing. The photo you've posted is just gorgeous! I agree with above comments about texting being not a good way to have this important convo. And also that there was judgment in the "not caring" comment, certainly understandable but likely to get an emotionally charged reaction. I learned something in a course that might be helpful. If you picture 3 concentric circles and visualize your relationships fitting into those based on these criteria: The outer circle is all your acquaintances with whom you can't have discussions about real things, but for other reasons they remain in your life (colleagues, distant family, whatever); the 2nd circle are those who are closer, who have a general interest in the same things as you and you can from time to time "go there" in an authentic way, but context and delivery is going to be crucial; and then the Inner circle--those who you know share your passions in somewhat equal measure and are completely reciprocal--you are learning and teaching each other constantly, They are "evolved" relationships. It sounds to me your sister is in circle 2, which will require of you much more patience and to actually be her teacher, if and when she explicitly invites this. In the meantime I personally would write her a letter, and have someone good at these things, (like LP perhaps?!) read over it before sending. Bon courage!

Kevin you do come up with the great topics! This has got me thinking. I'd like to add something from my experience in case it resonates with anyone. Growing up I was called pretentious at school and even sometimes at home. That was the suburban midwest in the 80s, kids liked sports and TV and if they read at all it was mysteries or romances. My interests were classic literature, foreign languages, ballet, travel--I was never trying to impress anyone, these were my natural interests and talents. Even my mother said I was just trying to impress people. Impress who? That impressed exactly no one where I lived, it was considered pretentious! So what I'm trying to say is I think oftentimes pretentiousness is in the eye of the beholder.

"Many men are going their own way. No sex with women, no dating. From what I see this will eventually be the normal." This will never happen. Not sure what you are seeing and where, but ain't nothing changing around these parts, thank heavens!