Gavitor

K from your article... For the most part I agree with this. However what are your thoughts on giving my vote away? What if someone was willing to pay me for my vote, would it be wrong to sell it if it's useless to me? Saying that by participating you are not resisting your enslavement, isn't necessarily true. I can participate and be a hindrance to those who think they can enslave me. Participation does not necessarily mean I accept it. It's like knocking the pieces off a chess board, I'm technically participating but not in the way that's intended. And since I don't accept the rules I just do whatever I want while still "participating". Not everyone votes to address a problem, people vote for any number of reasons. I can waste my time doing any number of things and normally I'd be doing anything other than voting. However If I give my vote away or sell it how is that any different to donating/selling my time? I agree. However voting is completely irrelevant to this. people give the state perceived legitimacy by arguing for its existence, not by voting. Remember that not every government allows people to vote in the first place and yet those very governments are still perceived to be legitimate. At the end of the day whether I vote or not will not change my stance on government being illegitimate and I will continue to argue against it. I disagree, whether you vote or not doesn't change what people think or perceive. Most already accept it as valid whether you show up or not. You do know that most people aren't swayed by reason and evidence right? Given that many won't change their mind either way, why worry bout what such people think in the first place?

The "at best Trump is a maybe" was me speaking, sorry for the misunderstanding. It's still always good to be clear, thanks for doing so. Also I apologize for my mistake on your thoughts.

I think this is less about self defense and more about throwing a wrench in their machine and hoping it slows it down. He pointed out that Trump is different from politicians , he even lists specific examples of how hes different and that's why at best hes a maybe. He doesn't think trump will shrink the state as so much hopes he will slow its growth. In my opinion voting is irrelevant however I see no harm in trying it if there's even the slightest chance for benefit. You miss all the shots you don't take after all. And Mike has pointed out why there is at least some chance. When did I ever say I own you? If you dont think that it's legitimate than why does it matter to you whether people vote or not in a system that is largely nonsense to begin with? We did challenge him and he made a good point. This isn't so much about supporting the state and is more about taking a chance when a small opportunity has presented itself. As Stef has pointed out if nothing else trumps presence has caused people to doubt the mainstream information they receive more so than ever before. This benefits us greatly as it opens people up to thinking because now they can't just take everything they hear on tv at face value. Just to be clear, I see NO VALUE WHATSOEVER in voting! Since my vote has no value to me and Mike does see value in it because he wants to take a chance (and hes given his reasons why), I see no harm in giving him something that has no value to me. Me voting is basically giving Mike a second vote. I think the outcome is the same regardless so I see no harm in giving him that. Hence why I asked what the plan is when the inevitable comes. As far as owning you, you can tell everyone they don't own you all day. I never asserted that I did nor did I state I was giving anyone else permission to. If you own yourself you are always free to resist those who claim ownership over you. You think that by voting we are legitimizing the state, the thing you ignore is that the state was legitimized by its millions of supporters (people who actually argue for it) long before we were ever born. We push back against them by making reasoned arguments for why it shouldn't exist in the first place. Voting in and of itself is completely irrelevant to that fact. Like I said earlier, if in their arrogance they have opened themselves up to letting us throw a wrench in the gears why not give it a go? Worst case scenario its a miss and best case we stall it, So why not use the opportunity? If your vote has no value then what is the harm in gambling with monopoly money?

I listened to what you said, and I'll vote for Trump. Not because Trump is a maybe (he is), not because I have faith in voting or government (I have absolutely none). But you made a very good case and if nothing else I'll donate my otherwise worthless vote to you and Stef for all the good you have done. If you really want to make that gamble Mike I'll throw my chips in with yours. And if Stef is willing to stake his reputation on this I don't think its too much for me to vote this one and only time. Like I said consider it a donation on top of what I normally give you guys. But answer me this, assuming he is able to buy us more time. What are we going to do when the inevitable finally catches up with us? You can only buy so much time and given this very problem has happened multiple times throughout history (points to "the truth about Rome") I'm not so sure this problem can be averted by even a divine Trump. Regardless I'd like your thoughts on this. Like I said in my comment on Stef's birthday video. You guys keep bringing the truth and I'll keep supporting you. As far as pissing people off and challenging their views / confronting them, I've been doing that long before I ever even heard of you guys and will continue to do so. (Though its probably why I don't have any friends)

Its all the same shit, individualism vs collectivism... The problem is no one is for actual individualism and everyone is pushing for their version of collectivism.

Right, that's where savings and borrowing come into play. People did it in the past they can do it in the future.

Unemployment is mainly a problem due to excessive regulations and licensing laws. Otherwise what is stopping people from simply making their own jobs?

No... because you are ignoring the cost. You are giving up a positive to neutralize a negative.

Well the difference from what I can tell is a trade is a win win because both are gaining something. Both are trading something with less value for something that has more value (perceived value*). So both gain or the exchange wouldn't happen. Compromise is similar but different in that you both lose something to go from negative to neutral (ending a dispute). Neither really gains so much as neutralizes a negative. If there was not a negative situation there wouldn't be any need for a compromise in the first place. What problem is that?

You're confusing trade with compromise... they are not the same thing. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compromise

A compromise is when both parties give up something to end a dispute. So by definition a lose lose.

That's basically what I was getting at. Rather then labor people will do low end tech jobs that don't require a lot of technical knowledge and in some cases none at all. As long as people can be trained and follow directions there will be something for them to do. If they can't they wouldn't have a job in the first place.

Wouldn't having machines take over all menial jobs simply replace them with low skill tech jobs like data entry and the like, IE the jobs that india and china tend to fill? Also there are places in america where you can buy a house for 1$ (detroit), The problem with housing is that everyone wants to live in the same place and the people who call themselves government own all the land (because they said so).

A lil off topic but I'm curious, what would happen if everyone just put down exempt?

Haven't you guys ever heard the saying "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" ?

No because I haven't seen any compelling evidence that voting works as intended, and the eu going for a second referendum because Britain voted "incorrectly" would further support that voting doesn't matter. Again I have NO FAITH in voting or politics. The majority wanted Bernie and they gave it to Hillary. Since Bernie is a sell out I don't get why they just didn't let him win it so they can keep their voter base intact. Now a large number of people won't vote at all because they saw first hand their vote doesn't mean shit with this "super delegate" nonsense. (and no I'm not a Bernie supporter) At the end of the day the electoral college has final say whether you get the popular vote or not. Just to be clear, I'm not saying you shouldn't vote. If you have any faith in the system whatsoever then vote for Trump. I just don't see how Trump being different magically makes the voting system different. I agree and accept that Trump is different, its everything else that's the same... And if it hasn't worked for years why would it start now? I hope I'm wrong and peoples vote does count and trump wins, I just haven't seen any evidence that it will. We won't know till they decide who becomes president. I compared voting to praying. I don't pray because I know its pointless, I feel the same way about voting. At the end of the day even if you win they still have final say and can reverse the outcome if they want. Them putting together a second referendum because the last one didn't go their way is further proof of that.

I agree with you on not voting because its pointless however I've been thinking about it and what Mike said and I don't think this is about voting. Trump is basically doing what the average statist says to do, if you don't like it become president and change it. This will reveal one of 2 things, either its not possible dealing a massive blow to statists everywhere while simultaneously revealing the illusion of choice that is voting and democracy. Or he does become president and continues to push the boundaries as an unwelcome outsider. Basically Trump is invading their space and seeing how far he can go before they reveal their true colors to everyone. Either the powers that be will double down on maintaining their charade or they will stop being covert and become overtly tyrannical in some form. Basically what happens is rather inconsequential (though beneficial if he actually is able to stop the savages from flooding the country) because just by running he has revealed how full of shit the media is and as he continues to get closer to the presidency while rallying support from the common folk it will become more apparent to everyone what a sham the political system and government are in the first place.

That was a very good answer, I appreciate it. I too am curious to see how things play out if Trump gets in.

I Understand and agree. My point is what makes you think that everyone in government and is vested in government are just gonna say ok we will stop allowing illegal immigration and start giving a shit about laws when the laws mean nothing to them in the first place? My contention is that voting doesn't solve these problems as history as shown, I even linked Stef's video the truth about voting. If you're vote doesn't matter why should you vote? He said he would lower insurance costs and the price went up... We've had suedo socialized medicine long before Obama, its called medicare. I agree. As Stef put it, voting is begging. KTHXBYE I remember Stef saying he wouldn't run but I forget which video it was he said it.

Thank you for clearing that up. I agree with you that importing child hostile cultures and giving them welfare is a bad thing and was never for it in the first place. We are on the same page as far as raising intelligent people peacefully for the future. I'm curious though, If government does the opposite of what it says its going to do how will that be different just because Trump is there? And I'm assuming that Trump is genuine in what he wants to do, I wanna know what makes you think the other people in government will work with him on it rather than stone wall him the whole time? (Just to be clear I'm not against Trump and don't have any problems with him or the content about him. My problem is with the people who call themselves government.)

While I don't care much for you're story you are correct that its possible to take a little at a time. I'm Curious though whats to stop the villages from getting together and acting as one to get rid of all the snergs?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Stef's position on trump that because he is successful and is winning popularity with the common folk and beating the odds that he will actually be able to make changes? If Trump actually succeeds and implements all the things he mentioned in the trump is different video than yes he could possibly slow down whats happening. The issue I have with this is the assumption that the people in power right now and all the vested interests will just play nice if he becomes president (assuming they don't just steal the election from him). Pretty much every election is really close and this one is no different, whats to stop them from tilting it in Hilary's favor? Even if Trump is different it doesn't change the fact that the majority of people in government are corrupt to the core. Especially the higher ups. Also what happened to the being made captain of a sinking ship argument he made with Ron Paul? Trump is successful in the free market, now he's trying to change a criminal organization into a charity. I hope he succeeds but I don't see it happening. As Stef pointed out in the past, simply reversing time does not stop government from becoming what it is. Like cancer it needs to be removed in its entirety. ( I don't want to put words in Stef's mouth so if I'm mistaken on Stef's position or what he has said please correct me and I apologize in advance for any errors I might have made)

Why would I believe promises from people who support the use of force against me? If they want to give me freedom then they can simply stop trying to be my ruler. Any quantity of government is the opposite of no government. A vote for any government is still a vote for government so what is your point? If as you say I have no choice in the matter than what purpose does voting serve? Are you saying that because I don't accept what others tell me at face value that somehow I'm not accepting reality? The reality is that government is literally just other human beings claiming they have imaginary powers that no one else has. You either accept their claim or you don't. The reality that they are humans just like you or me doesn't change. I don't pay taxes by choice... I'm literally forced to do so. For me to play a part I have to have the option not to. The difference is giving the mugger your wallet and leaving it at that or giving the mugger your wallet and then demanding that they take your clothes as well. When It comes to coercion I won't give anymore than I need to to live. At the end of the day I don't vote for the same reason I don't pray. It's just a 50/50 chance you'll get what you want while thinking you actually did anything to attain it. I think a more important question is why do you believe that the people who call themselves government should be allowed to make choices on my behalf? Or yours for that matter? Last I checked they don't have a good track record of making good decisions and trump isn't going to replace all the people who maintain the status quo.

So if as you say you have no choice and will be forced to have a ruler either way then what purpose does voting serve? As far as paying taxes go, I do it for the same reason I'd give a mugger my wallet. My life is more valuable than paper. I can't continue to push back against lies and misinformation if I'm dead. How am I not accepting reality exactly?

Does that mean I have to accept it? All I see are other humans some of which feel the need to point guns at me for disagreeing. They can only rule over you if you accept it. I do not. When violence/coercion is involved its just that, that doesn't make them my ruler. People can give themselves whatever titles they want, at the end of the day it only matters whether or not you believe in it and play your part accordingly.