Matt D

Teach your kids their ABC's using philosophy!

What follows is the best argument in favor of sexual promiscuity that I've heard. I don't agree with it, but would someone else like to try rebutting the argument? "Sexual Love and Promiscuity If at the lowest level on the ladder of love eros is expressed in our sexual life as a desire for the intense physical pleasure that reconciles us, if only for a time, to embodied life, than we can easily understand why move up to the next step on the ladder. We recognize the physical beauty of—and come to seek sexual pleasure—with many people. We become detached from the beautiful body of one person when we see him or her as just one of many people whose appearance—whose faces and bodies and manner—stimulate our desires. We thus become sexually promiscuous. It is at this point that a key step up the ladder of love is made, that is, the movement from the pursuit of beauty of body to that of beauty of soul. This is a moment in the Symposium that is always overlooked. One suspects that readers of this work—and not just readers in the past—have been too ready to praise the pleasures of the soul and too quick to denigrate the pleasures of the body. And so they don’t see that there is a serious question to be resolved here. Even if we accept the Socratic perspective and take the pleasures of the soul to be higher, finer, and better than the pleasures of the body—and we shall see that this claim is far more problematic than Socrates suggests—we still have the difficulty of understanding why someone in pursuit of the pleasures of the body with multiple partners would, all of a sudden, grasp the importance of the soul. That transformation is by no means easy or natural. Indeed, in the Republic, a similar transformation is said to require the most intense training over a number of years. How can we account, then, for this important moment in the Symposium? Let me suggest, however, that Socrates’ argument takes the pursuit of sexual pleasure seriously. As such, it recognizes that sex can be better or worse. And while beautiful bodies do elicit sexual desire, sex with beautiful bodies is not always the best sex. Sex with someone who has a beautiful soul is like to be more pleasurable. This is true even, perhaps especially, if we think of sex as primarily bodily in nature. A person with a good and beautiful soul is likely to be more open to our desires and his or her own, more capable of discovering new and different ways of giving and receiving pleasure, and more interested in pleasing us than a person with an bad and ugly soul. But that is not the whole story by any means. Sex is, as the speech of Aristophanes teaches us, not only or even primarily a means of gaining physical pleasure but also a means of creating, expressing, and sustaining a relationship between two people. The pursuit of 8 Many people seek the same end, I believe, in the use of alcohol and recreational drugs. And some people—and especially those who find it more difficult to free themselves from soulful anxieties—use drugs as a way of making sexual pleasure possible. This is understandable but ultimately self-defeating. If you don’t need alcohol or drugs to free yourself from anxiety or sexual inhibitions, sexual pleasure is more intense in their absence. 10 sexual pleasure for its own sake can make us aware that good sex can create a strong and attractive tie to another person. And thus it is an easy step to recognize that making such connections can be unpleasant or even dispiriting when we have sex with someone with a bad and ugly soul. Or, to put the point another way, it is easier to lose ourselves intertwined in the arms and legs of a sexual partner with a good soul. And when we come back to ourselves, it is much more appealing to find ourselves with such a person as well. My suggestion then is that the pursuit of sexual pleasure in sexual promiscuity is a critical way in which learn the importance of the soul, because it teaches us how important the souls of our sexual partners are to the satisfaction of our own bodily desires and reveals to us that pleasures of a more than sexual connection to another person. As we pursue sexual pleasure, and recognize the importance of the soul, we come to understand that sex can have a purpose beyond bodily pleasure, precisely to bring two souls together as one. Thus it is precisely in the pursuit of bodily pleasure that we come to recognize the importance of a good soul. And, if we can recognize it, then the object of our erotic pursuits is transformed. We come to treasure beauty of soul rather than beauty of body." Source: http://www.stier.net/writing/Is_Socrates_a_Model.pdf

Shirgall, this might come as a shock, but the form of the argument contradicts the content. "UPB" = <false>

Welcome from across the pond! It's true, you will find I think that most in this community do not believe in a deity. But you might be surprised if you asked people about the importance of spirituality in their lives.

I have not read any of the posts on this very long thread but I thought I'd share my thoughts in a video since there is significant interest in the ethical position of veganism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YTLj8z0fY

Cool. Same message, different flavor. My only small quibble is when he says "A lot of [parents] just simply don't know any better." But, of course, that excuse was never allowed when the child said she didn't know any better. "Be on the same paaage, ladies and gentleman." Hallelujah!

Shameless plug: Philosophy In The Morning

This is great, Jeff! God knows the world needs more voices like yours. Where does "Five Hundred Years" come from?

As I'm sure you know, race is almost always more complicated than the standard narrative. Before your question can be answered I would first ask: Are white parents actually more peaceful parents or do they just talk about wanting to be good parents? There is some data about race and physical violence but peaceful parenting includes more than just not beating your kids. For instance, black mothers are stereotypically known for being fierce protectors of their children. By itself could this be considered better parenting than the laissez faire attitude of many parents parents? Is it not low income that would be the controlling variable in your question instead of race? Now let's say for the sake of argument we've somehow proven that white parents are more into peaceful parenting than minority parents. Thus white children are more likely to be peaceful parents themselves whereas minority children are more likely to get stuck in a cycle of hostility and aggression in parenting. Let's accept all of that. Does that imply we should temper our moral outrage when minorities abuse their children? Certainly to say we should not condemn their behavior would to deny them of any choice in the matter. I think the amount of propaganda that some minorities receive is higher than what most whites receive. I have talked to some blacks who say they were told how they'd be lucky to live longer than Jesus (33) because of their race. I empathize with any child, regardless of race, who grows up in so insecure an environment due to the choices their parents made about the community with which to surround their child.

I think the toughest battle to win is spreading self-knowledge. How do you convince people who by most standards are "normal" that they can choose a different path in their life if they put the work into therapy. It's difficult because there is a lot of mythology about psychotherapy. 'Spanking', or hitting children, is detrimental no question. But studies have shown that verbal abuse and neglect can be even more detrimental than physical abuse. I have confronted parents who I saw spanking their child in public, however I don't quite know what to say when I see a child being ignore by his parents or who is throwing a tantrum. A potential parent can say "I want to parent peacefully", but if that person was not parented peacefully achieving that end requires looking deep into themselves. For a majority of people that's somewhere they really don't want to go precisely because it will challenge their relationships.

Another fabulous and factual presentation! ^ Even more impressive that Stef has such a command of language.

A couple new videos. Enjoy! Popularity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ4lOmMirHE The Psychology of Pets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ3W8ru50sg

I couldn't agree more. I'm finding this book, The Victory of Reason by Rodney Stark, to be very educational on the ways Christianity in particular paved the way for science, capitalism, and freedom in the West. Highly recommended reading. The "dark ages" were actually a time of great innovation and necessary experimentation centered largely around Christian monastic traditions. Unlike other religions, Christianity fostered scholarly research. The attempt was to discover the divine laws of nature in order to get closer to God. Christianity produces the first universities similar to what we still have today. What do you think, trout007 - Would the world benefit from a 'godless religion'? If so, how would it be any different than philosophy?

Man, big question. I'll try to make it quick while also doing justice to it. Philosophy got me out of a relationship motivated more by sexual desire than appreciate for virtue. It got me out of a job where I got very little respect from the management. It has prompted me to pursue freelancing/entrepreneurship. It helped me find the courage to talk to my parents about the problems I saw in our family. It eventually helped get me to go to therapy. It helped me purge toxic people from my life who I didn't even realize were toxic. It has helped forged a relationship with a new best friend. It has helped me crush bad habits like the addiction to stress and isolation. It brought out the initiative to start my own conversation making videos on youtube, which is a source of joy for me every day.

I don't know enough about Mormonism to add anything of value. But with regards to Christianity, I don't think Stef went far enough in his apology. Without the spread of Christianity in the West it's very likely we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Some of the historical facts were surprising to me because I thought that atheists were responsible for pulling us out of the "dark ages" but that's actually not the case at all. I'd like to call into the show at some point to talk about the relationship between reason and Christianity.

My favorite clip was the women in the middle of the audience who doesn't even crack a smile.

Here's a link to an official study referenced by the above. You can access it for free if you are a student or health professional. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103109001164 I'll translate for you guys who might be near a pretty girl right now: men stupid near EGGS! women not stupid near SPERM! The official verdict is still out women near RESOURCES!

Spirituality or reason? Is it a false dichotomy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSs2Wknsqw

I agree with your analysis 100% Maybe it's because humor was used as a tool for humiliation in my family, but I feel disgust and anger that a topic so serious and painful as teenage suicide was made into a comedy. Nevertheless, it's exactly what you'd expect in a world that turns a blind eye to child abuse.

Excellent. Brasil was on my list already. Thanks very much for your perspective.

In a sense, yes. Only the control is more subtle and harder to escape. The newer school buildings which are inviting and welcoming are meant to distract from the underlying coercion.

I had to fork over more money. "Did you know that for every dollar the IRS spends on tax enforcement, they get six dollars return?" John Oliver doesn't seem to get the distinction between between return on voluntary investment and increasing your muscle so that you can shake people down more effectively. People don't like the IRS because they remind us of the truth of our enslavement.

I watched the movie 'It's Kind of a Funny Story". It was enjoyable and humorous due in large part to Zach Galifianakis, but afterwards I was left feeling unsettled by what I had watched. Take a look at this clip and see if you can guess why... It's Kind of a Funny Story (2010): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804497/ Thus I went ahead and made a video review of the movie, in which I discuss the larger issue of youth suicide. I sprinkle in some of my personal history dealing with depression as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMCFBmNcc20&feature=youtu.be Here are some statistics in case you're interested. Youth suicide statistics in the US (2013): 4,878 suicides / year for youth between 15 and 24 Suicide is the 2nd largest cause of death among youth Estimated 100-200 attempted suicides for every death by suicide (youth) http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/2011OverallData.pdf "Statistics indicate that males die by suicide more frequently than do females; however, reported suicide attempts and suicidal ideation are more common among females." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

Fascinating. The degree to which schools and prisons are indistinguishable is the degree to which a country has progressed towards complete communism. I used to work for an architect who got her start designing state prisons. What is she designing now?... That's right, US embassies and schools. Control and brainwashing.

Right but even when big brother throws little brother under the bus, the dad says "Why didn't you stop him - aren't you the older brother?" Yeah, I got the sense he was punishing his inner child vis-a-vis his children.