madman

Hi Coleman. Like king Arthur said in the holy grail, run away, run away! I did the forum in the mid eighties at the behest of my na friends. It was a travelling sideshow/ revival that whisks into town, grabs everyone's money that's in a 12 step group, and disappears into the ethers. After reading the other posts I do remember the hard sell/ bullying that went on to get me to get that money so I could go to this absolutely life changing thing. It was basically a sleep deprived boot camp for mystic followers of bill w. The reason they bully is cuz they have no reason to offer. They told me to "imagine the possibility of forgiving the people you hate the most" or something to that effect. I thought for 2 seconds and said that's easy, my parents! So I forgave them with na's and Jesus' blessing and floated out on angels wings. The weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders. I arose from the culty water to start my life anew and sin no more. Sorry about all the creepy religious metaphors but it was a creepy experience. I was exploited again. I also paid more than they're charging now. It was all the money in the world to me cuz I was young and poor. They said we don't care how you get it. Steal it if you have to but get that money and come to the show! I went to acoa (adult children of alcoholics) around that time which was brand spankin new. I thought all this childhood stuff is stupid, I'm outta here. I'ts a whole bunch of people belly-achin about the past. I was done with my past cuz I got saved by the forum. Fast forward 3 decades. I listen to Stef and find out I might need therapy. I find out all of my dysfunction has it's roots in my not so wonderful childhood. That same childhood that I had been bragging about since I went to the forum and decided to forgive my abusers so I could love them and hang out with them to make jesus and na happy. Sorry this is so long but I feel too passionate about this topic to be able to leave it alone. If the forum had a face I would like 5 minutes alone with it and a baseball bat. It's not bad that I forgave my abusers. It's bad that I forgave and forgot, meaning I did not process while the abuse was fresh in my mind.

Connection is where it's at. It's the good stuff. It's the only place I find vitality. It's where the fun is. And it's my biggest challenge. He did talk about me plus and that's good cuz it's a terrific waste of time. I've wasted too much of my life playin that game cuz I was not ok with me. The downside of surviving trauma is isolation. My go to when I hurt is to try to fix it myself. Even when I have no idea what it is. As a child I learned don't talk, don't trust, don't feel. As a result I'll act out (to dissociate), and isolate (I'd rather set myself on fire than ask for help or admit that I need help with anything). Then I get depressed cuz I have nobody to connect with. We are social animals. I can't even have fun by myself. I can do things myself that I'm proud of but it hardly counts until I share that with someone. When I'm ok with myself and doing something I enjoy I have vitality to share with others. It's contagious. That's the connection I crave.

I thought it a very good read. I'm not a fan of pharmatherapy at all. If I take a pill to lessen the sting of the lows of daily life I believe it lessens the highs and the rewards of facing my fears and making nice with my emotions. I've been in a funk for a while and I keep hoping that the therapy I've been doing is going to help teach me how to welcome my emotions instead of trying to sweep them under the rug as I've done in the past. I know from listening to Stephan that my subconscious is always trying to help me. When I'm blue I know it's my emotions telling me that something needs fixin. In the past I've used various addictions and denial to make the bad feelings go away (which never works). It's what I've been doing lately. The difference is that I'm aware of it. I'll ask myself if I need to act out and sometimes I decide not to or to a lesser extent or I choose a lesser evil. Or I'll phone a friend. That's hard to do but it really helps. I don't feel like I need to totally run myself into the ground although sometimes I do. If I do I'll try to exercise self care and not self attack. I'll take that as progress. It makes sense that the way out of depression is through it. What am I unhappy with, specifically? It's not just everything. Depression seems like it gangs up on me cuz I do my best to ignore, invalidate, and minimize it. Thereby erasing my self along with my emotions. Erasing is familiar. Trying to make friends with my emotions and hold them lightly is not. That's the hard part is trying to break old habits (I can do this myself) and feeling the fear of facing my emotions and asking them what they're trying to tell me. Thanks for posting this. Your timing is right on. It's heartening to know I'm not the only one who's had trouble with this. G

I love that last paragraph Kevin. Forgiveness has been a club that I'm expected to use on myself. That's super twisted and jumbo creepy. It's sadistic. I'm getting a church flashback...

I don't like the last step. I keep listening to on truth and saying will you forgive me smacks of trust me or love me. it feels skeezy and manipulative. I did this so now you have to do that. it implies obligation. I agree with the first four steps and then the last part where they say "is there anything I can do to make this right?" This is my working understanding of making amends which might be wrong. If I've harmed someone and genuinely ask what can I do then I'm showing empathy instead of saying here's what you have coming to you now take it or leave it. I think it gives both parties a chance to explore what happened and what's really bothering each person. I know I get triggered by things that seem unconnected that require introspection and discussion with someone I can trust to find out what's really driving my emotions. I had a bad time with a friend recently. After talking about it later I found out I triggered her fears of her father's anger and she was triggering my fear of attack from my mother. I would never have guessed it had we not talked about it after the fact.

great question. I've talked to friends about moving to the mountains. my concern of course is where will I then find new friends. I need to be challenged. not because i'm lazy or anything but rather to be my best, to enjoy life fully, to experience vitality. if I have fun by myself does it really count? it doesn't really feel like fun to me. i can have fun by myself but then i need to share that with someone. I need people to share with to get the most out of life. isolation does not bring me happiness. neither does false intimacy or false relationships. I've had those all my life. right now friends fit into a couple of catagories. I have friends who love me and have my back but are on a different path. I have friends who are on a similar path but i'm not sure they're on the same journey. in other words I have friends who say they are after self awareness but i question their ability to be honest cuz they're still practicing magical thinking. friendship has to be reciprocal. it is exploitation otherwise. i believe friendship is a response to virtue as is love. if i am virtuous. otherwise what is called friendship is normally exploitive. always win lose instead of win win just in a tit for tat way. what you said about keeping score. i payed this time so you can pay next. that's tiresome. i listened to your boring blather now you have to listen to mine. as opposed to being really excited to see someone. how bout we see each other when we want, if we want, cuz we want. that's honest. that's freedom. that's invigorating. Stefan taught me life is short. it's my favorite quote and i stole it fair and square. i tell people regularly that life is short and if' i'm not having a wonderful time I've got shit to do. i'm not obligated to maintain any false relationships. no unchosen obligations.

i'm both reading the book and listening to it on mp3. some of the stuff hit's pretty hard and i'll dissociate. then it's better for me to read than to listen so I can reread or put it down and pick up later when i'm less emotional and more open minded. I think the example of rtr with a parent or anyone else of significance in my life is to find out if that person is safe. I think it's an acid test. I have the hardest time not jumping to conclusions and intellectualizing. I do not have examples as to how this can make someone curios. being curious is counterintuitive to me. saying nothing but how I feel is counterintuitive to me. truth tellers get attacked. if I say how I feel nobody can argue that. if I jump to conclusions I think it's a defense mechanism cuz all I was modelled was win lose, moral posturing, framing, and manipulation. i'll jump to conclusions to intellectualize and create sinners. more win lose. don't talk, don't trust, don't feel. rtr starts first with myself. if I can't tell you how I feel then either I don't know or you're not safe to tell or i'm scared of the truth. telling the truth is how I best understand the truth. if I tell you how I feel I immediately see if it seems crazy or not. if it's true or not. if i'm hedging my bets with fog or partial disclosure or downright lies. facing my feelings is hard work. telling them to someone is risky. especially if that person isn't safe. i'm finding out who's safe by speaking my truth and trusting my gut to tell me who's not safe. if i'm under attack from a stranger I don't rtr with them. I know from the podcasts that a lot of people have had trouble with rtr. it's scary stuff. I read something yesterday that said when I want to act out it's my job to feel the feelings that are driving that urge to self destruct. lately I've wanted to act out. I asked myself what it was I didn't want to feel. shame, fear of abandonment, fear of rejection, rage, loneliness, fear, pain, depression, guilt. I told my friend I wanted to act out. then I went to her house to "fix her water heater". I didn't act out. today we talked about it. she felt the same but values me as a friend more. we talked about using others to manage our anxiety, loneliness, low self esteem. this is the closest I think I've come to rtr.

hi Dermot. how did you do? typically i'll hunker in the bunker but the isolation freaks me out. then it's a self attack free for all. then i'm so irritated that i'm ready to fight and not safe to leave the house. what were your emotions. did you have time to process them? if i get triggered it can take me a couple days just to come back to my body. seems like the more it happens the less time it takes. what's workin best for me is to phone a friend. that's what really saved my ass this December. i'd rather set myself on fire than ask anybody for anything. i called people when i was jammed up instead of trying to work it out myself. sometimes i'll get epiphanies when i talk to my friends. or i'll just get grounded. i got triggered by my ex so i called another friend that i knew was safe and i said tell me that you love me cuz i just talked to my ex and i'm not feelin it right now. i needed some support and was shakin when i asked for it. that was something i just couldn't do by myself.

i cried when you wrote that part about that virtuous somebody. talk about mixed emotions. it felt like an emotional avalanche. i'm still learning how to post so thanks for your responses and your patience.

I saw a couple of threads regarding this problem. one was close to helping me. this makes me crazy as I learned how to do it a year ago and now I forgot. I clicked on a dialogue box then I clicked quote under the part I wanted to respond to. then I erased everything I didn't want in the quote. then I clicked on preview post to get some options. then I get a quote box with the quote I want but all I can do then is type in it. my post ends up being part of the quote. i'm freakin furious! i'm doubly upset cuz I start a thread and want to reply in real time and don't know how to do it. I need help. this is the only forum I've been on so i'm wildly inexperienced. thanks for your help and your patience, gary

self knowledge was absolutely key. I knew my pitfalls cuz December has been one long groundhog day as I've spent too much of my life avoiding the truth. I had a good idea of what I didn't want to do and who I didn't want to be. then I needed courage and support to try something new like trusting myself. self love instead of self loathing. learning how to ask for what I want (i'd rather set myself on fire) instead of being stuck in learned helplessness and being a victim. self knowledge has earned me choices I never would have imagined

it's all I can do to survive December. I know what doesn't work. I've found a few things that did. I had a really good new years eve. overall this last December was the best I've ever had in my adult life. new years eve I ended up closing a biker bar that's right by my house and having a wonderful time. I did not need to find a new wife or girlfriend or fun buddy to try to manage my anxiety and loneliness. I trusted my gut. I didn't act out. I went there by myself so I could leave whenever I wanted. it was fun dancing so I stayed. I did not pressure myself. I was not on the prowl. I was visible and present and courageous. I stepped outside of my little box. i'm proud of me. I have no wreckage to clean up. no serious depression to get over. no amends to make. I know i'm not the only person that has trouble with the holidays but I haven't seen anyone post about it. i'd love to hear what's working for people. thanx, gary

good job being persistent that your friend get therapy. what a mess. my heart goes out to you and your friend but especially her kids. if evidence has been found on a thumb drive or memory stick or whatever I shouldn't think it won't take long for the husband to get arrested. matter of fact, if that's the case I can't see why he hasn't been arrested already. maybe I read these posts wrong. I would think it's a challenge to get good info out of your friend cuz it's such a touchy subject. if your friend is in w central florida then I would recommend my therapist. she specializes in childhood stuff, works with abused children, has at least 2 other women working for her that work with kids and has been to court on the children's behalf. she's not a lawyer but she knows some of the ins and outs of working with the state. she also understands addiction (including sex addiction)/codependency very well. I would think her perfect whereas my last therapist would be likely worse than bad as he specializes in family counseling. his office is covered with pics of his happy family. he's a big champion of the foo so he would likely push her to stand by her man as it's the Christian thing to do. I've heard him touted as the best therapist around. the very first thing my current therapist would do is work on the kids' safety. if this guy's a perp and it sounds like he is then the kids are certainly at risk. this puts your friend in a spot cuz now that she's confided in you she will eventually realize she is ultimately responsible for the welfare of her children. she can cry foul all she wants but sooner or later she will realize. I wish you all the best. let me know if you want contact info for your friend, gary

http://www.na.org/meetingsearch/ if i got the link right they show like 74 meetings in columbus. have you tried na meetings yet? if you're an athiest the god part really sucks. i'm struggling with that right now going to alanon meetings. the good news is you can meet people that are committed to finding out how to live without getting high. nobody knows how to do it or what that even looks like when they start going to meetings so people who have learned are sympathetic to that problem. what do ya do if you're not gettin high? it's a damn good question. the best meetings are after the meetings. it's real easy to go there and not get noticed if you don't say anything. especially if you haul ass right after the meeting closes. if you ask around you might find that people are going out for coffee after the meeting which is crazy if it's an 8 oclock meeting. it depends on the meeting you're at and dumb luck. i went to one morning meeting and went to lunch afterwards. everyone talked about stupid stuff. then i went to another one and 2 guys stopped for lunch and i grilled them while we ate. i finally got a couple of questions answered. i've been going to alanon for about 3 weeks now and i got some numbers but i haven't called anyone yet. at least i got a little face time after the meetings to ask some questions. alanon and na use the same format. most of the meetings you sit around a table and everybody gets to share if they want. one person leads it and can say something after you talk if they want. if you go there and say you're new you should get some attention. come early and leave late is an old saying. that way you can say you're new and if the person isn't an ass they should help you understand what's goin on with the meeting. if you leave late you can ask questions afterward. you don't get a chance to talk back and forth when you share so you can ask questions if you want but you might not get any answers. you can pick up literature to read and you can buy a big book if you want. you can get the hotline number off the website and call them with questions. i was 23 when i first went to na. i tried aa first but those guys were too old and too lame. na was the real deal. i got my very best friends there. from what you wrote it's not so much what happened to you as what didn't. i didn't know what win win was till stephan talked about it. i didn't know what negotiation was. i acted tough so people would leave me alone. but i didn't like bein alone. i wanted love but didn't think i deserved it. i had no idea how to ask for anything i needed. i'd rather set myself on fire. mom told me i was no good cuz i was gettin baked every day. there's still a part of me that believes her. i was ignored as a child so i learned to ignore myself. brain in a vat cracked me up. i think of that brain sitting on a chair in group on ugly people. that's me. i've supressed my emotions for so long i don't know what they are. i live in my head. i used to smoke just to make myself stupid enough to talk to the people around me. i gotta think weed is keepin you down. it's keepin you stuck. it's keepin you from learnin some new tricks. some stuff you want but are afraid to ask for. weed don't make you brave it just makes excuses. let me know if i can help, gary

ya, what a novel idea. you can do this.

hey Red Prince. i've got a couple of guesses based on a couple of experiences. i may be way off but here goes. my father used the excuse of taking care of my grandfather to run away from trouble at home. every time mom wanted to talk dad would say i have to go help my dad and he'd split for a week or two. the whole time telling strangers he meets that he has to take care of his dad cuz he's sick. all i see is him trying to set a precedent to get me to do the same when he gets old. this is after i read ayn rand and told him if he can't take care of his self when he gets old he's on his own cuz i can hardly take care of myself. i told him before this show he was putting on that his old age would have no claim on my life. he was putting on a show and i could see right through it. so could my mother. the louder he proclaimed his altruism the more we knew it was an act. sounds like you're doing all the work and dad is flying in to see that everything is going just great for a couple of reasons. one, you're doing all the work two, people don't want to see their parents die cuz they know they're next. they don't want to face their own mortality. expecially christians. they want to believe like mulder in the x files but they're just as nutty as he is. three, you're earning your keep (he put a roof over your head) so he can work you like a rented mule takin care of grandma because it's an insane amount of work that nobody wants to do and he knows it. my ex got a call to come down and help with granny. she loved granny so she came. as soon as she got here she found out right quick that nobody else wanted to help with granny for the above listed reasons. her uncle and her mother ditched and she was left holdin the bag. granny got worse so the work got harder. she was here so uncle and mom didn't have to help anymore. they'd just make cameos once in a while to keep up the charade. ex got wore out quick cuz she got suckered by her family who all left her holdin the bag. they took advantage of her love for her granny. her life was on hold until granny got sick enough to go to a home and die. sorry to be so blunt but i don't know how else to say it. it's not like she was gonna get better and start takin care of herself. so you're back home where all this drama and trauma happened and you're chained to a dying woman for an indetermined amount of time at your father's behest cuz he's putting a roof over your head or it's the least you can do or you love your grandma don't you? she'd do the same for you and maybe she has already. regardless of whatever leverage pop used to volunteer you he's just too damn busy doin anything but lookin after his mom to face his own mortality and keep her from burnin the damn house down while he's gone. that was my ex's family. if that's you then you've got reason to be pissed. please forgive me if i'm wrong and tell me if i'm wrong but it looks like you got hornswaggled. it looks like dad is preying on your good nature and love for your grandma to do the dirty work while he tells everyone it's all good, i got this handled. bein back in that house is gotta be like livin a non-stop flashback. i can't imagine. i've still got so much rage for my parents now i couldn't be in the same room with them. if you're diggin around in your childhood then anger's gonna surface. maybe rage as well. maybe it's just disgust. you got a tough way to go if you stay there. the good news is you don't have to. hope this helps, g

hey Nick. "i don't want to be built like this". me either. i keep telling myself i don't want to be that guy. murderous rage has been a problem for me for longer than i can remember. i didn't know what it was until i started journaling. i kept writing the only emotion i have is anger. it's the only one i could identify and feel. then i found out it was murderous rage. murderous rage. before i started journaling i knew i had an anger problem. i thought rage and anger were the same thing. i'm learning different from steph's podcasts. as i understand it anger is here to help us. rage is not. anger predicates change. acting on rage is where i screw up. i get antisocial quick. in the blink of an eye. my neck hurts writing this. like someone's squeezing it right below my skull. my therapist said i can black out without drinking. i don't know if i have or not. i know that when i snap in my car i have no fear of death. none whatsoever. it's the furthest from my mind. i'll get all excited and say you wanna dance, LET'S DANCE! and off i go. i remember years ago looking up at my boss(he was a foot taller than me) and poking him in the chest while i was givin him hell. i was an adrenaline junky and a relationship addict and a drug addict. now i'm having trouble with food. i've lived in my head all of my life. i've terrorized myself with fantasy for as long as i can remember. trauma and rage and addiction has driven my whole adult life. sorry if this is too long or rambly but i thought it pertinent to give you some backstory. i've abused myself in various ways all my adult life. i woke up in jail and had no idea how i got there. i caught a case for fighting with 5 kids. i caught another case for brandishing a firearm. what a mess. it's all self abuse and it was all caused by my rage. i know enough about myself to know that there's times i'm not fit to leave the house. so i don't. it was like that when i recently tried to quit smoking. i was so pissed that i was too pissed to be safe to drive. it was like putting myself on house arrest. i know when i'm crazy i can't drive. i'll road rage and i can't afford to act out. i've only been in a couple of fights in my whole life but if i get in one more i have 5yrs waiting on me so i can't act out. i have to check myself so i don't get in a spot where i have to check myself. by then it's too late cuz i'm on autopilot. i may as well be having an out of body experience. so i've been listening to steph and journaling and going to therapy like a maniac cuz my life was an absolute train wreck. when i have no will to live then rage is even more dangerous. if my give a shit's broke then i think i got nothin to lose. i'm tryin to figure out who my inner child is and the only one i can remember is the teenager who hated his parents. hated the world too but really hated his parents and anyone in authority. suits, rents(parents), jocks, pigs(dad was a cop), church(i knew that it was a scam when i was 15), teachers, etc. i was a total nihilist and didn't even know what that was. i just knew that every thing i was told was a lie and the world was crap. so i get some awareness and the one thing that's front and center is rage. i work on all these different things but rage is the thing that most often threatens my life. the more i work the more raw i feel so i know the more succeptable to acting out on rage i become. it really put me in a trick bag. i tell my therapist this is the fire i gotta put out and she fixes me up with some hippy chick doing ART therapy. it's new and it's new to her but if you want to try i'll set you up. so i say ya i'll be your ginea pig. it's not the first time i was the first one to run off a cliff. so i got one session and it actually changed my life. my therapist said it was kin to emdr which i've heard not good things about. maybe i need to research this more. i saw the same therapist recently for a second session of art and i just quizzed her about it instead. so far so good. i don't have a link or anything so if it sounds interesting let me know and i'll find out what i can. she put her hand in front of my face and moved it back and forth. looked super hokey but it's supposed to get the right side and the left side of your brain to get along. my therapist said this will probably work better with men cuz their brains are wired more directly than women's if that makes any sense. i'm not very hip to the left brain right brain discussion. what this huge post is about is that the art probably saved my life. of course i said that before about reikke and massage but i think that was true at the time also(it was years ago). since the art i've been strangely calm. i haven't road raged. that is my litmus test. can i drive and not rage when some fool tries to kill me. i've had people pull out in front of me and come into my lane without warning and i resisted what seems like the instinct to "dance". it really is a split second thing. time slows down like the movie wanted. then i decide if i'm gonna flip this persons car or if i'm gonna simply move out of their way without incident. it's crazy scary to think that i've learned to think like this but it's true. i haven't had to do any of this road raging since the art. it's probably been 3 weeks or so and i've had more than one opportunity to blame someone else and dance accordingly. as far as pills go they tell you this is what this will do(it's a sedative) but that doesn't mean that pill will sedate you. there's happy drunks and mean drunks. same sedative. some people get the party started and other people fall out. i've never been wound up for days so i don't know what that's like. when i see that i did something that almost got me killed i normally calm down. one drink can make your tired but more than that can energize you. i used to ride my bike like a maniac. i'd do wheelies for miles just to burn off more steam. my friend and i used to do dollar movie nite and see whatever was playing. if it sucked we'd boo till we got kicked out. we asked the concession girl what was the best thing to throw. she said use twizzlers, chew em first so they stick to the screen. i used to go to the bar and rip on the guys that looked like they was doin a saturday nite live skit(we are wild and crazy guys). then i'd go butt dance with them and we'd try not to fall over laughing. i put out such energy that the fight always came to me. i never had to look for it. i had no idea what i was doing. i wouldn't recommend any of these things except something physical like the bike or a speedbag or something. i do recommend the art. that along with all the work i've done really changed me. i've got some peace for the first time in a long time. i wish you the same. you deserve it. thanks for takin the risk and posting what you did. i reckon most people are shell shocked by it. it took guts. hope this helps, gary ps: i love your avatar. it cracks me up

i was so upset the first time i read this i couldn't respond. i could find no way to respond without cussing profusely. thanks for posting and posting the pic. it's hard for me to imagine what 5yrs old looks like cuz i never had any kids. i have one pic of me when i was a child but it doesn't say how old i was. your step dad's a sadistic, cowardly, piece of work. a real sick twist. first you get set up. then you get terrorized(you're gonna get it when we get home). then you're told to humiliate yourself and wait!!! so he can draw out the terror and humiliation. like it's something to be savored. the first thing that came to my mind was sexual abuse and humiliation. i may be wrong but when i saw this my gut said this was sexual humiliation. it makes my hackles stand up. i was furious and i'm still livid. it ain't right. i'd say i'm sorry this happened but it's not my fault and it's not your fault. it's screwed up. it's wrong. it was premeditated, cowardly, and sadistic. i voted your post up cuz it takes balls to share this kind of truth.

now you're talkin. you got clarity cuz you weren't afraid to tell pops what's real. good job. and good job keepin your family safe.

my parents divorced and my mother waited quite a while to start dating. she was around my age (i'm 51). i'm sure your friend is a lot younger. mom told me she had a short list. non smoker. employed. best if he's a homeowner. if he pulls up in an old pickup truck and he's wearing a sleeveless flannel and cutoffs then i'm sending him packin (that was my dad). we always laughed about that last part. he was truly a fashion retard. at her age she wanted someone financially and emotionally stable. it's all about what your friend wants out of life. does she know? lots of good questions and replies here in this thread. i met my first wife in the bar. we danced like it was 1999 until she got ruphied and we literally dragged her out to her best friends car. i gave her friend my card and got a call 2 weeks later. she grilled me like she was elliot ness. i was laughing my ass off. she was 41 at the time. she really sweated me on the phone and i let her know it. it was exhilerating. it was exciting and i respected her for it. i was really impressed. i think if you ask her what she wants out of life and out of a partner and she trusts you enough to be honest then making up a list will come naturally. especially if it's a short one (what are her deal breakers?).

wow is right. he uses you for a punching bag and now imagines himself to be ghandi (“My memories are different than yours and I choose not to fight or argue.”). looks like he has some real magical thinking going on. good job calling him to the carpet. now you know all you need to know about your father. it took courage to stand up to him and courage to post it here. good job on both counts. welcome to the board, g .

not unempathetic at all. i appreciate your response. there's some really cool stuff here. it's new and it's scary but it's good. it's really good.

i went to narcotics anonymous and quit using for 13yrs. there were lots of young crazy screwed up people there so i fit right in. the support is what did it. they use tons of bromides. i had to change people places and things to be able to stay clean. i had to learn new tricks cuz the old ones weren't workin. i met some really good people and a couple of scourilous ones. i still have friends from that. Stephan recommended alice miller in one of his podcasts as recommended reading. she maintains that any kind of addiction can be traced right back to our childhood. i agree. if you have trouble with substance abuse na and therapy is a good place to start. i was insanely angry when i got clean and had no idea why. now that i've read alice miller and charles whitfield and found a good therapist that does childhood stuff i'm starting to figure out why. you can search na online and find whatever meeting is closest to you. having childhood issues makes us prime candidates for addiction. anything that can keep us from feeling. i got rid of the drugs and other things came in to take their place. it's all about the family. i never learned about boundaries or how to sucessfully communicate. hell, i didn't even know what i wanted to communicate. that's why i'm here. good luck brother, g

very important work. most exciting too. welcome.