Mister Hugz

Mr.Athens and you are quite welcome! I want to be clear on my communication of philosophy during the presentation. I essentially used an argument from effect after I provided the evidence. I said "If they found a substance in baby formula which caused lower IQ, higher risk of depression, and alcoholism, there would be a near overnight change in the industry." I felt that the evidence I was providing was overwhelming the audience (sorrowful thousand yard stares across the room and blank stares). This made me feel the need to go easy, and maintain the 'palatability' of the presentation, if that makes any sense. I avoided the argument from morality in hopes that the information wouldn't be bomb in the brain style smacked down only to harden the defenses. I approached it more like 'here guys I stumbled across some startling information, I hope it helps you'. After the presentation I struggled with some pretty heavy self criticism about my avoidance of the moral argument. The evidence the audience was showing (see above) helped to alleviate that criticism and the idea that philosophy isn't a rule book to beat myself up with was helpful as well. Thank you for your support

My pleasure, mahayana! I was quite tempted to weld my butt to my desk chair when the teacher said "next!". It feels good to hear that my post helps. If you would like more material on the subject I recommend this comprehensive review of over 200 studies. http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/research/impact-corporal-punishment.html

Thank you dsayers, I appreciate the support! I will have to say that "I don't know" was not in my mind as an answer. I think the pressure to come up with something that sounded well thought out and compelling only served to exacerbate the feelings of anxiety. When I see a public speaker who has the ability to say "I am not sure", or "I dont know", I tend to feel like I can trust what they are saying. I will try to remind myself to stay grounded in the fact that I don't have all the answers next time. Well said sir! I felt the room go kind of cold after my exit from the stage. I think this perspective-> "In other words, it's easy to perpetuate; it takes exposure to contrasting ideas and a lot of difficult work to break the cycle", would have helped the audience feel like I understand depth and challenging nature of what I am saying. Again, thank you for your thoughtful reply!

Hello there! I wanted to share with y'all some of the research findings I came across whilst putting together a corporal punishment speech for my Psych 101 class. Also, if you are interested in my presentation experience: I read the presentation verbatim, but when it came to question time at the end of the speech, a flood of anxiety pulsed through my body.. The first question was 'why did you choose this topic?' I then thought to myself "good question! it seems i have misplaced my prefabricated response..." as I stared at the ground. I then answered with ' well I was spanked and this information Is super helpful to me. I want to help you out, especially if any of you want to become parents or are parents. Also, I am in therapy and this helped me to understand my fight or flight responses to a lot of things.' After this interaction I felt really nervous and had a hard time staying focused. The next person asked "Why do you think people tend to parent their children like they were parented?" I actually don't remember exactly what I said other than that it is a biological imperative for children to do what their parents do and something about genetics. The only thing I remember after that was that the same person asked another question and I didn't understand the question. I gave a head nod and said blankly "that's good" then walked back to my seat. My inner mom/critic has come up for me a lot in the days following the speech, which has given me some good material to bring into therapy. I would like to add that I am aware that the reason I am posting this is due to a compulsion or feeling to try to gain external validation. None the less, I hope it helps! P.s. I added 2 extra studies. 1 was the Harsh Corporal Punishment-Gray matter... 2 was Gene and gender environment interplay Spanking&Aggression-Pediatrics-2010-Taylor-415-24.pdf Spanking as Discipline PSYCH-101.doc Spanking and Childhood agression - Gene and Gender environment interplay2011.pdf diminishment of gray matter with HCP-2009.pdf CorporalPunishment-Cognitive abiltiy-Longitudinal- 2 representative age groups 2009.pdf corporal punishment study-NewZealand 2009.pdf 1- Maternal warmth, spanking and agression- Gershoff- Study2013.pdf

Joel you are the MAN!!Thank you for sharing this information.

I don't have any evidence to back any of this up at the moment, look yonder if you were looking for something more factual and philosophical. I think humans naturally evaluate the visual information people are putting out. In my experience, it takes a lot of mental energy to completely disconnect from those natural observations. I find it necessary to get the full picture of who and what the person is all about. The unconscious is your best friend when it comes to this. It is there to assimilate all the information e.g. voice projection, posture, eye contact, forced or natural laughing, etc. Hmm, at the moment i would say I'm ambivalent about how much a role it plays on my final impression of a person. If a person spends their time on a board like this and are having compassionate discussions with people who are trying to heal emotional wounds inflicted on them when they were children. It would be safe to say that they have the capacity to explore their own inner world to find out what could be the cause of discontent in their own lives. Therefore having a high possibility to make positive mental, emotional and physical health choices in their lives. This assessment has validity in my opinion. If a person manifests these virtues, will their physical appearance still rank higher on the hierarchy of values than those virtues? in my opinion, no. now if i met this hypothetical board person face to face and they looked like they were suffering from some severe weight problems and smoked cigarettes or whatever. I would be confused for one. But then i would still feel comfortable having a conversation with them about this serious issue because of my observations of their character on the board. sorry if this seems fragmented. (I need to work on my board skillz) Thanks for the post and interesting topic

Wow! I enjoyed reading your intro. I am glad to hear you kept exploring yourself and opening yourself up to these ideas, especially the RTR. In my opinion that relentless self exploratory spirit will help you when the going gets tough emotionally. Thanks welcome!

Welcome to the boards!

Thanks for the sweet intro Rachelann. I think your passion for coaching and helping parents connect with their children is awesome! The sensitivity and communication skills you have developed from your health coaching will surely aid that connective process. good stuff Welcome!

This is awesome Coreforcruxes! thanks for the post!

This is stimulating eargasms for me at the moment. https://soundcloud.com/mrlittlejeans/suburbs

Yeah I think you're right, DaVinci. Listening to these podcasts help out in this area SO MUCH! It's like having a compass in rough seas for sure.

I agree, it is not accurate. Can i change murderer to killer?

Thanks for posting DaVinci! I agree with you. I just had some additional questions in the first paragraph below / Thank you so much Kevin, that clears things up a bunch. I am new to self knowledge and I heard a podcast of stef talking about how a therapist will be there to help you to avoid regression and process the emotions in an adult way. I think what we are doing here is the adult part. We are talking about thoughts and feelings. I am HUGELY thankful for all of your guys' insight and thoughtful input! But if I had not come here to talk about it, would It have been a regressive experience? would feeling pain in the moment, internalize the thoughts and never actually process them be the dangerous part? Thoughts and feelings. What I felt the moment I exposed that wound was pure hate. Sadistic rage. I felt that my mom is dead to me as I am dead to her. Crawling into her evil rotting skin sends shivers down my spine. I thought I FUCKING HATE HER. She wanted me dead the moment she gave birth to me (she had postpartum depression after I was born). I think my subconscious processed this reality a long time ago when I was about 12 years old. I had a dream. This dream was one of those dreams that were hyper realistic. In the dream I woke up from my nap to a police officer at my doorstep ringing the doorbell. I opened the door and they said is the residents of "insert moms name" and i said yes. Then the officer said I'm sorry son, but your mother has just been in a fatal car accident. The sheer terror that I felt woke me up and I was hysterically crying and screaming at my stepdad that MOM IS DEAD MOM IS DEAD!. He had to calm me down and reassure me over and over that she was just at the store getting groceries. I appreciate the feedback Slavik. For the danger part read above ^ I have always been conditioned and trained to have empathy for my mom. It feels scary but good to have empathy for myself for once! I feel like I need to break that slave mentality. "the imagined old abusers face, is actually yourself as a child" this hit home for me hardcore. Thank you This conversation has been great and I greatly appreciate all of you posting!

I just had a powerful experience listening to podcast 339 where Stef talks about imagining abusing your abusers when they are old and frail. He said think about the look they would give you as you beat them. I started to uncontrollably weep from the depths of my gut for about a minute or so. then the emotion faded away. A similar experience has happened to me before when I listened to a podcast on abusive mothers as well. My question is, would these kinds of experiences be dangerous if you don't have a professional to help you process correctly? thanks for reading

I need to go expand my understanding of justice on a philosophical level. Referring to the current system of "ethics" was a mistake/ intellectually lazy on my part. Thanks cab

wow, yeah man that does make sense. That helps for sure. Thanks jack!

I appreciate you challenging the premise that I put forward that this man was a murderer. It has given me reason to think about the subject more deeply. Alright, so I want to define my terms Murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/murder The war in Iraq was declared on the pretext of having weapons of mass destruction. LIE #1: "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." --President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati. FACT: This story, leaked to and breathlessly reported by Judith Miller in the New York Times, has turned out to be complete baloney. Department of Energy officials, who monitor nuclear plants, say the tubes could not be used for enriching uranium. One intelligence analyst, who was part of the tubes investigation, angrily told The New Republic: "You had senior American officials like Condoleezza Rice saying the only use of this aluminum really is uranium centrifuges. She said that on television. And that's just a lie." LIE #2: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address. FACT: This whopper was based on a document that the White House already knew to be a forgery thanks to the CIA. Sold to Italian intelligence by some hustler, the document carried the signature of an official who had been out of office for 10 years and referenced a constitution that was no longer in effect. The ex-ambassador who the CIA sent to check out the story is pissed: "They knew the Niger story was a flat-out lie," he told the New Republic, anonymously. "They [the White House] were unpersuasive about aluminum tubes and added this to make their case more strongly." LIE #3: "We believe [saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." -- Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on "Meet the Press." FACT: There was and is absolutely zero basis for this statement. CIA reports up through 2002 showed no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program. LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." -- CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush. FACT: Intelligence agencies knew of tentative contacts between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early '90s, but found no proof of a continuing relationship. In other words, by tweaking language, Tenet and Bush spun the intelligence180 degrees to say exactly the opposite of what it suggested. LIE #5: "We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." -- President Bush, Oct. 7 . FACT: No evidence of this has ever been leaked or produced. Colin Powell told the U.N. this alleged training took place in a camp in northern Iraq. To his great embarrassment, the area he indicated was later revealed to be outside Iraq's control and patrolled by Allied war planes. LIE #6: "We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States." --President Bush, Oct. 7. FACT: Said drones can't fly more than 300 miles, and Iraq is 6,000 miles from the U.S. coastline. Furthermore, Iraq's drone-building program wasn't much more advanced than your average model plane enthusiast. And isn't a "manned aerial vehicle" just a scary way to say "plane"? LIE #7: "We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established." -- President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address. FACT: Despite a massive nationwide search by U.S. and British forces, there are no signs, traces or examples of chemical weapons being deployed in the field, or anywhere else during the war. LIE #8: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." --Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council. FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, as previously reported on AlterNet the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks -- if they existed -- were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder. LIE #9: "We know where [iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." -- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press. FACT: Needless to say, no such weapons were found, not to the east, west, south or north, somewhat or otherwise. LIE #10: "Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." --President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003. FACT: This was reference to the discovery of two modified truck trailers that the CIA claimed were potential mobile biological weapons lab. But British and American experts -- including the State Department's intelligence wing in a report released this week -- have since declared this to be untrue. According to the British, and much to Prime Minister Tony Blair's embarrassment, the trailers are actually exactly what Iraq said they were; facilities to fill weather balloons, sold to them by the British themselves. So, months after the war, we are once again where we started -- with plenty of rhetoric and absolutely no proof of this "grave danger" for which O.J. Smith died. The Bush administration is now scrambling to place the blame for its lies on faulty intelligence, when in fact the intelligence was fine; it was their abuse of it that was "faulty." Rather than apologize for leading us to a preemptive war based on impossibly faulty or shamelessly distorted "intelligence" or offering his resignation, our sly madman in the White House is starting to sound more like that other O.J. Like the man who cheerfully played golf while promising to pursue "the real killers," Bush is now vowing to search for "the true extent of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs, no matter how long it takes." On the terrible day of the 9/11 attacks, five hours after a hijacked plane slammed into the Pentagon, retired Gen. Wesley Clark received a strange call from someone (he didn't name names) representing the White House position: "I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'You got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein,'" Clark told Meet the Press anchor Tim Russert. "I said, 'But -- I'm willing to say it, but what's your evidence?' And I never got any evidence.'" - http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/ten_appalling_lies_we_were_told_about_iraq The fact that the war was declared on false pretexts now places the destrucive conflict and casualties into the category of unlawful. Therefore anyone who killed unlawfully fits the legal criteria for murder. I would say is a violation of the NAP as well.

I would recommend taking a listen to a podcast where they go into detail about this exact subject. Its called School Sucks Podcast http://schoolsucksproject.com/

hey there RuralRon! Seems like a tricky situation. My first question to you would be, why do you think you felt uncomfortable?

for your sensitivity and honest feedback jacbot. Laying down the rules seems like a fantastic idea. My mom is a master emotional manipulator. For instance when i brought up the damage she caused me by inviting insane and destructive personalities into my life when I was helpless and dependant, she stared at me with incomprehension. Then when she would try to fog and change the subject or divert attention to other topics, I would come back to my original point and ask again. Then she would start crying and blubber about how difficult it was. I am thinking about seeing a therapist first before I try to interact with her on this level again. I agree, I didn't take into account the damage inflicted on him to bring him to the point of accepting vice as virtue. I just reacted to the the fruit born by evil seeds sewn long ago. A good point about money. I need to get this fantasy out of my head that the private sector is all daisies and sunshine in this statist economic model. Even a sick culture can produce corruption. I will focus on this for sure in the coming months of job searching.

I feel like i'm being trolled. Either the non agression principal is a universal principal, or it is not.

Yeah man, no problem Btw, I like your display pic. It reminds me of Alex Grays' artwork

I'm new to self knowledge and I think i came across my first little mc-nugget of insight. I was on my nightly walk and was introspecting about what may have caused me to post about a murderer I met ---> https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41138-i-met-a-self-proclaimed-murderer-today/#entry376393 I have been in the military for the past 8 years. I have been recently experiencing intense depression, bouts of apathy and resentment for my decision to submit to this form of slavery. Luckily I have not killed anyone. But I also know that I am at fault as well. I have taken the blood soaked money and still do. I feel like I posted about that murderer as a way to shield or blind myself to 8 years of accepting the same corruption in my life. I feel like a hypocrite in a way but I don't know how to differentiate that feeling between self attack injected into me by culture and bad parenting or my conscience providing me with information. My mom has expressed this kind of projection about how " sick and twisted" my dad is and would talk endlessly how fed up she is with my step dad after he went off the deep end with drugs again. I would talk on the phone with her and she would say " he is just such an asshole" OVER AND OVER AND OVER. I feel like she did this to scrub herself of any moral responsibility for dragging her kids through that hell. So I think that has something to do with my propensity to project. thanks for reading