Saarl

Hello, Thank you so much for the response. I do understand the situation with MMA, or at least I think I do. Like - you don't aproove of people beating the crap of eachother because it is violence, but then it is their work, they're doing it voluntary (like nobody's forcing them to go there and beat someone or get beaten). My guess would be you're able to see your point of view (non violence principal, that's one of the reasons you're not doing this kind of job) and theirs (you see that they have some reasons to participate in the spectacle - get some money, master their body's skills) even if you don't agree. I'm not sure if I get the concept. With these "lines" - good, not good, and bad - do you mean like you analyze possibility of empathizing in the very same way? In the manner of: If you show empathy towards someone, would it be helpful for your work, not helpful or destructive? Am I following correctly? So the empathy would be shown only when it's helpful to achieve your goal? Seem like the kind of selfishness described by Rand. Did I get it right? And then I'm afraid I'm not there yet. Like the problem would be even more basic than that, the dillema (good, not good or bad) assumes that I am already capable of empathizing/ know how to. And the more I think about it, the more I realize that I have very little clues of what empathy looks like/suppose to look like. Like the very basics - this fail videos example is some indication that I'm not completely devoided of the capacity to empathize (or at least I'd like to think that). But watching the video is nowhere near real life experience, there's no I involved directly. And in an everyday situation the I seem to be a huge obstacle for empathy. So maybe the very core question I should be asking in this topic instead of doing all these rants is: "How to get rid of the narcissistic I?" "Is that even possible?" Any suggestion how to practice that? It bothers me a lot. And I guess it must be hard and very unpleasant and tiresome to others, and that is what nobody wants (me included). The friend may not be that much of an inspiration for my art, but then it seems like she had a part in inspiring me to look for some more self knowledge. And then the art is my main goal, and I love doing that (it is also true that I didn't and still don't have much more in my life), but then I'd like my life to be a bit more than just about art. Self knowledge became another goal, probably as much important as the art was always for me. Today I took a day off at work. I had to because I've found my brain too much occupied by the topic of empathy and being narcissistic (and how to find any solution to that) to be able to work. I find your post very helpful. Not only you gave me sugestion of the possible and useful method but also helped me put all these thoughts in some order. Thank you so much! And if I may say - the thing you you've said about the creative people as a whole - I'm not sure if the kind of people are deliberately putting themselves right into the crap, my view of it would be rather that most of them had messed up childhoods (I've heard some stories of other creative people, their childhoos looked like a mess), and if the childhoods problems are not solved/dealt with, they end up repeating it over and over again. I mean, many of the messed up people are driven to do creative things, but doing creative things is not helping to solve the problems. ___ And then I do find Carl's observation helpful as well. It made me doubt even more in my capacity to empathy. I consider that very helpful in enhancing my perception of the problem. I see it is bad. Now I need to see just how bad to have some starting point. Thank you so much!

@ Kevin Beal First of all thank you for the post. I was raised kind of by myself, seriously neglected eventhough I lived with both of my parents, have 4-6 points at ACE (can't answer two questions, like I was spanked often, sometimes beaten with a belt, I don't know if I should count that as serious because I don't recall being beaten black and blue, so in this case I don't know the answer is yes or no, the other question is about living with mentally ill person - my mother's ACE is about 6-7, my father's 9, they were never diagnosed with anything, but obviously they have serious mental problems), and the dominant thing about my childhood is that my parents were ashamed of me, wished I was never born at all, held me responsible for ruining their lives (father was 15 and mother 17 when I was born), and blamed me for all bad that happened. The situation is like that (trying to make the whole picture, it is still one-sided) - at work, I am doing purely creative job (illustrating traditional games), my goal is to make the game as interesting as possible on the visual side, without changing the mechanics. Now I worked on the project for over a month. I got nice idea how to make the game funny, tried to put some plot in it. I fugured out that if I remove one information on the cards I'd have much wider space to operate in. That actually wouldn't change mechanics and would not create a mess in the game because there was another information, a number, which still was grouping the cards in the category. Only instead of having defined name on it, there was just a number. And here comes the problem - the PR with whom I have to communicate and cooperate. They never suggested any alternative to my concept (they could), then when I more or less finished the job just came to me and told me that I have to change about half of what I did "because", which ruined all the "plot" (I figured out quite a time ago that their "because" is for them an argument, which stands over any possible argument followed by a reason). So I told them, that I'm not going to do it, I'm not going back to the previous version of the concept when the one I came up with is valid and not disprooven. Now, I tried to figured out why did they do it myself, I came up with some possible explanations - either they could't grasp the concept (never asked me to explain it), the one information I recieved later was "it cannot be done because they would have to come up with forced explanation in the rules", and when I thought about that - it was a matter of being creative. They percieve difficulty of being creative, and additional opportunity for the game to be more colorful as "forcing explanation". I actually did show them examples of how you can be inventive and creative in this particular case (too late I guess). The other thoughts I've had about the case was - well maybe it was too much work for them (they've actually brought me the corrections after deliberating for less that an hour, which started all the mess, because I said that it is lousy). Or I saw one more possibility which was fear of responsibility of making the alteration, which was at least from the visual standpoint quite large. Now - what it has to do with me lacking empathy? Well at one point I was about to make all the alterations myself to find out if that's really impossible as they say. And if I didn't succeed it would be fine - I was wrong, they were right, we're going their way, case closed. No problem with that at all. But then what if I succeeded? It would turned out they actually didn't do their job properly, therefore maybe they should be doing something else, like translating the guidlines and doing other stuff they do? And of course I would be percieved as 100% narcissistic bitch. Then the social atmosphere at the work place would be even worse than it already is. So now after few days I see that I have actually no capacity for empathizing with others at work. And I find it even harder to try because of some behaviours they've shown when I strongly opposed to them - I was threatened (one of the girls told me that "I don't have to make the corrections, in fact I don't have to work in the company at all" (she's not my boss, just another worker as I am), the other one tried to humiliate me by trying to force me to make some irrational promisses to her (she accused me of saboting the project, and wanted me to promiss that I won't do it). I've had a sense of that was going to happen if I opposed from my previous experiences working with them, only then I decided I was going to do whatever they wanted and not confronting them. But I simply couldn't do that any longer. The kind of problem doesn't appear when I tried to work in the same manner with my boss as I do with the PR - I often disagree with my boss, he disagrees with me, and we're able to find a satisfying compromise very quickly and it is a constructive process which actually makes the project better. So it is not the matter of "the project has to be done in exatly the way I imagined". The goal is to make the project as good as it can possibly be. My conclusions were that either they are not able or don't want to work a bit harder on the project. If they're actually doing their best I should try to empathize. And I can't. I still see that not everything was tried. And then I can't know for sure. I know I am narcissistic (this is how my therapy progresses, and from what I've read it is supposed to go this way, I was suffering from another disorder, then the therapy lead me to this point), but I don't know where is a border between being right and being narcissistic. And on the top of that I am also mildly autistic, which makes it even harder to figure out what to do in the social situation. Confrontation like discribed above put me in a state of panic. And then - I have quite high "problem solving and pattern recognition" skills which is described by iq if I'm correct, which are needed for doing the alterations in these kind of projects I do, and since it is fairly simple for me to do it, it is even harder to understand that somebody else may not be able to see it. And ability to solve problems presented on paper and not involving emotions is completely useless when it comes to social situations. At least for me. And at the very end of this case - I would happily leave the project as it is, not trying to make it better, but then - when it is done my name will be put on the cover, right next to the author of the mechanics. And since it is a publication, gamers (and potential clients of mine, so my possible future) will be percieving the looks of the game as my doing and not me with a bunch of other people who also worked on the project (and it is unfair, I don't see why aren't they listed as well). So you know - the responsibility is mine. And I am kind of ashamed knowing the project could be so much better. And by "better" I don't mean I'm sure it will sell better, I don't know that. PR don't know it either. In fact my boss who has most experience in this doesn't know that as well. ___ @ MMX2010 Thank you for your response. I get that there's a possibility that maybe I shouldn't empathize with these people at work, especially if they're kind of abusive. This is what I'm trying to figure out. But then empathy is a form of understanding. And I want to understand. I'd really love to be able to see their side, their point of view. But then why shouldn't I empathize with a friend? It is a relationship with another being. It's voluntary, there's no obligation involved of any kind. I feel bad for her, sensed she was angry (when she told me the details about her health I was furious, the public healthcare was responsible for almost killing her and creating life threatning situation that continues). She was worried obviously, suprisingly for me I didn't sense much fear from her (like panic or something), rather some sort of resignation about the current situation. Before the health issues I sensed the feeling of frustration, "being stuck", hoplessness, some sort of desperation. So the stuff I listed in the post were my responses to the feelings I sensed from her. I should probably mention that my perception is lowered because we are using a fb texting to talk, rarely speaking to eachother. I don't see why it would be negative to empathize, I percieve understanding as a positive thing, I really want to understand. The case with the friend is - I don't know if it's empathy, or just manipulation. I'm simply trying to figure that out. Can you explain me what you mean by success here: "When you've succeeded in a way (and to a sufficient degree) that you feel well-earned pride"? I don't get what pride has to do with empathy? Like do you mean that if I really empathize I will feel weel-earned pride? Why?

I've listened to "Is empathy a selfless act?" podcast on yt and it made me think about my lack of empathy towards other people. Example given by Stef - watching yt fail videos, when someone has some sort of an accident is clear and simple. I can't watch videos like that, especially if it involves twisting or breaking part of the body. It feels extremely uncomfortable, I can almost feel the pain of the other person, and it makes me wanna throw up. So I guess this is genuine. There's an empathy involved. But now, the listener has presented the example of his boss being in a difficult situation (hospitalized parent) and he was wondering about what would be a good thing to say to the boss. The conclusion was if you think about it this way it is just manipulative. And I get that. But then it made me think. People who were raised in a toxic environment have often difficulties with expressing feelings, emotions and so on. So maybe the case is a bit different... I have my own example - I have a high school friend, who's life is (not to go to any details) very miserable, and as if that wouldn't be enough recently she's struggling with very serious health issues. I am really worried about her. I feel deep sorrow about the situation she's in. I want to help her, I think noones life should look like that, but there's not much I can do (since I live really far away from her). Before her health issues I was trying to talk her into looking for some ways to make her life a little less miserable, try to look for possible opportunities she maybe didn't consider or didn't see, or didn't believe she could use. Now the situation seems more and more hopless. I'm trying to be for her, show her that I care, I'm asking her how she's doing, how she's feeling, trying to empathize, trying to at least understand and show her that I do, asking her to let me know how is the situation progressing and so on. When I'm thinking about it - I have nothing to gain here, I simply can't stand the thought of her life being this way. I can't stand the "unfairness" of the situation. But then every time I'm talking to her I have to think really hard what should I say. I don't want to make it worse for her and above all I don't want "to make it about me". Like stating that "I'm worried about her", "I'm sorry for the situation she's in" both of which are true, are making it about me and doesn't show any empathy towards her. So it is like trying to figure out what to say that would sound properly. I'm really not used to show any empathy towards anyone. I didn't see or experienced many examples of people being empathethic either. So is it still manipulative? Is there any way/better way to learn that? And there's the third "kind" of situations which require empathy that I can't grasp at all. I guess some literature would be required here. So far someone recommended Daniel Goleman's "Emotional Inelligence" which I'm going to read. Could anyone suggest me some more? (Preferably audiobooks) To put it as plainly as possible: I do not have a single shred of empathy when it comes to the situations when other people stand between me and my ambitions/goals. If it was possible I would simply crush them, and went straight to my goal over their dead bodies. I didn't do things like that in the past. It went more or less like this: I would jeopardise things I wanted to achieve for the sake of not having to confront anyone, to have peace and so on. I couldn't do that anymore, it was harmful to me. Going over dead bodies is harmful to others and narcissistic. So what now? How to learn to empathize in such situations? Where to start the work? Please help. I will be also talking about it with my therapist, though I really wanted to ask for as much help/opinions with this topic as possible.

As stands in the title - my friend is looking for a counselling/therapy via skype. English or polish. Good one. Can anyone recommend someone who does that? Where to find these people and maybe how expencive they are?

It's been already two months since the last Warsaw meetup. So maybe it's time to start planning another one (maybe in a month or so). Anyone willing to come?

Quick one: Meetup in Warsaw, Dec 6th, 11 a.m. Central Station, in the main hall (Al. Jerozolimskie 54)

Hello guys, Here's another work of the FoO Series I'm working on.. "A gift of self knowledge" Feel free to use it or share. Full size version available here: http://sta.sh/0evmwycnitf Also FDR members created a group on deviantArt. If anyone is interested - please join us! http://fdrart.deviantart.com/ Cheers!

For me the link didn't work either. Just type callmeviolet in facebook search and you will find the page.

It seems like you already have your own style, I think that's great. I like this piece in particular https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10492290_143096729192584_5931956939579278136_n.jpg?oh=7ca49b92732ddc4ab4f6a8420443526a&oe=5439A984 I think your technique isn't that good yet (it is clearly visible in your pencil sketch - the way you shade things/draw lines, too little contrast and also proportions are off) but that surely will come in time and practice so I wouldn't worry about that too much. But then you seem to have very good sense of color when it comes to your paintings. The idea of parent-child bonding is is really good and I'd love to see it. Just out of curiosity do you have any experience with selling art already? It's important to find themes that you could actually sell especially if you're just starting. Do you have dA page? If so maybe you would like to join FDR group on dA http://fdrart.deviantart.com/ some of us are there already

Well, I think it's all you've mentioned. I still have Samsung B2100. Serves its purpose, it's really durable and small. Since I don't text or browse net with phone I don't need huge screen. And the battery lasts longer.

Witam serdecznie

Well, I wanted to present a sort of pursuit of knowledge/truth (when I'm writing it, it sounds so shallow). The angel figure being a guidepost, representing fdr, pointing to less obvious direction than the regular path. The knowledge is represented by the light. I wanted to "place" the viewer on this road through the perspective. And I guess I messed the concept up. Next time I will try to express my message more clearly. Cheers!

Another art of mine somewhat related to FDR (at least for me) though I have some difficulties with describing it with words. If you'd like to use it in your projects feel free to do so. Bigger version available here: http://saarl.deviantart.com/art/A-way-home-448912852 To get a full size art please contact me here or via pm at dA. Cheers!

I don't trust it. I just do what's in my mind, send a message and wait for whoever respond And more works to come, even if my audience didn't like it

Hello fellow members of the board! I didn't know where to place the topic, so here it is. I've just started working on FoO series in a visual form, anyone who is interested in using the art for their own projects - feel free to go to dA and download the image. I'll be posting more as soon as I get it done. Here's a link: http://saarl.deviantart.com/art/FoO-Series-I-447423487?q=gallery%3ASaarl&qo=0 Cheers!

I guess it's both. I still can't process the thing with my ex which makes me avoid any other men as well. And there's a bit more to this thing. I don't think I'm ready for any relationship, and I won't be for at least few more years (I have to practice managing my emotions and try to become more consistant with what I think, do, want to achieve and what I feel as well, and just get rid of as much mess from my head as possible) otherwise I will just do the same shit all over again. And there is this thing - I think I might have fallen for someone already. I might be just mistaken or confused. It's kind of hard to trust my own judgement after all I've been through. I tried to study my feelings. Carefully compared it to all Stef's podcasts about love I've already listened to (I'm new in here, so far I'm in about 3/4 of relationships category), but I'm getting this feeling it might be it. Or I'm confusing it with something which I would describe as some sort of authority figure. I'm clearly responding to his virtues. And the more I'm getting to know the man the more it makes my jaw drop. He's just amazing no matter from which side I'm trying to look. He has this incredible integrity, like he was whole. Anyway, getting back to the point - I recently met with this man, we spent some time together and one thing stroke me as odd and worrying and even kind of scary. I don't feel any sexual attraction towards the man. I just can't feel anything. Like I was blocked. I think I should feel something, like anything, and I'm just empty. I can't even find words to describe it. And I'm confused. So I was thinking about it more, and everytime I ended up trying to solve this ex case. Because I simply can't find any other possible reason. And other than that until this ex case is closed I won't be able to manage this fear of being exploited again (but I have no such fear associated with the man, it occures just when I'm thinking about possible relationship with men in general).

I'm trying to be really honest, I just didn't say what I acctually wanted. And what I meant was they didn't do any serious damage to my body, like visible bruises or wounds (or at least I didn't see or recall any). I know how large impact it had on my brain I do not minimalize that. Thank you for so encouraging comment. I guess I may be just impatient, because I don't want to waste any more of my time.

I actually am after five months of really intensive therapy and a year of just trying to digest these things. And I'm still consulting my therapist from time to time. He knows about this issue, he told me we will get back to it later, maybe he thinks I'm not ready yet. And I don't know if I'm ready either. The thing is just bothering me so I decided I write it down here and see if someone has some idea about it. Or maybe there was a similar issue here on the board. Other than that I would probably be able to afford to see a specialist here in Poland but I have pretty unstable work situation at this very point. It will change in a month only I'm not quite sure for better or for worse.

Hi there.I'm new here and I'm seeking some advice to my issue (I solved many aleady, but there's one I just can't)Brief history of mine:Both my parents come from broken families, they were abused and neglected as children. No suprise then when I was born my father was 15 and my mother 17 and I was rejected, especially by my mother. They decided to keep me though (It was I guess out of fear - what would other people say to that), they blamed me for everythig bad that has happened to them, I was labeled evil eventhough I didn't do anything wrong. I was abused, emotionally, verbally, and a little bit physically (no serious physical damage was done, just slaping with an open hand or belt), I lived (from as far as I can remember) in constant fear I will be thrown away from home, my mother did say those threats out loud, like "behave or else I will put you to the orphanage, you brat, and you will see" (first time I remember I was pre-school, and she never stopped). Those and more other threats were constant in my life, for as long as I lived with them. Other than that when I wasn't abused I was mostly neglected. (they were to "discipline" or they just didn't care and had better things to do) My parents never spoke to me, barely spoke to eachother. I'm the only child, but my grandma lived with us (she was disabled, couldn't leave house and live on her own. So I spent my days in my room alone, pretending I wasn't there. Early on I figured out this is the safest way for me to survive. At times I was afraid even when I needed to go to bathroom, because I would have to leave the room and if my mother would see me there was always this possibility she will start yelling at me for whatever reason (she was always able to find something) and then continue yelling for hours. I had very little contact with anyone. No relationships with other family members.When I went to school it wasn't getting any better. I've had already eating dosorders, I was depressed and other children already started teasing me (because I was fat and the only redhead in class). Our teacher didn't like me to the point she was lowering my grades for no reason. So I had noone to protect me. As soon as other children realized that, I was their favorite target. And when I tried to protect myself (with violence of course) I was punished even more.As I grew older, my parents invented new form of punishment - they would ground me for whatever reason, forcing me to sit alone in my room, listening to their quarrels or parties. Other than that I wasn't allowed to ask any questions, I was forced to obey. They killed my curiosity, any traces of self esteem, they were also able to make me think I'm stupid. And pretty early on I figured out anything I say can and will be used against me rather sooner than later. I was defiant of course. I became really agressive, then I just sort of shut down for few years. I got used to other children teasing me, didn't do anything about it anymore.I'm slowly getting to the point when I need the advice. Little more of my story is required though.I was 15 and I went to highschool. There was a serious rage in me at that point already. I managed to scare off everyone with my appearance and studied angry stares. Noone dared to challange me. Finally I had some brief moments of piece. I fell in "love" with some guy, I was rejected of course. it was then I started practising self harm. I was cutting myself on a regular basis and I really wanted to die. I was imprisoned, unable to make connection with anyone, in constant rage, really truly wanted to kill everyone. And of course I was ashamed of myself because of that.So it was nothing unusual that I fell for the first guy who have shown me any interest, any pretence of care. At 16 I was no longer alone, I had a companion now. We began to have sex with eachother. It was nice at the beginning. The relationship was going quite nicely for a year or so. We've shared similar interests, we talked much about stuff I wasn't able to talk with anyone before. And then it started to change slowly. Of course I started showing what I was taught at home - I became abusive towards him. And I began to notice (then it was nothing more than just an unconcius feeling, nothing that I could define) he doesn't care about me, he was just feeling lonely, and wanted someone to appreciate him, someone who would listen to him and to have sex with. Just anyone who would make him feel better about himself. And it made me feel growing irritation.Time was passing and he wanted more sex, at the same time I was feeling more and more uncomfortable with that. Not only because I was afraid I will get pregnant and end up like my mother, but also somwhere at the bottom of my mind I knew it was just all about him, that anyone could be at my place. I started refusing to have sex with him, and he began pressuring me. It always ended up with me having sex with him, because I couldn't handle the pressure and of course I didn't want to lose him, couldn't stand any possibility of another rejection, after all he was the only one who at least pretended he cared (and I've never seen anything better in reality). At times I felt so violated I started crying during an intercourse, and just couldn't stop. And I became even more abusive towards him after that. It was a long process, after four years I've had enough of this forced sex and I was too ashamed of the abuse I inflicted on him. I felt guilty and humiliated by my own actions. I've seen my worst fear becomming reality - that I'm becomming like my mother. I broke up with him. I never tried to make him come back to me. For me it was over. Few months later he came to me and he wanted to be with me again. I'm not sure how it happened, I honestly don't recall, but I agreed. We were back together. But this relationship was nonexistant. It was all back to growing abuse from both sides (I was much more abusive than he was). I was more and more depressed. I gained so much weight I had difficulties even walking, because of this depression and because I didn't want to look attractive to him. I just didn't want him to touch me (that of course wouldn't stop him). Then I had to run from home, from my parents (they still abused me all this time) and since I was convinced I can't make it on my own I came to stay with my boyfriend (he suggested that much earlier, I just didn't want that). It lasted three more years, and long story short - it got just worse. I gave him hell. And I gave me hell as well. And ended up with him kicking me out because I couldn't stand it no longer and tried to commit suicide (again) and he couldn't stand that.Little more than half year later (when I was back living in my parents house, again abused by them) I had some luck, and stumbled upon someone who offered to help me. And he did. With his help I managed to deal with almost all of my issues (of course I need much more time and much more practice to be able to ever recover, and have a chance to become a decent human being). It took me more than three months just to face what I've become, how evil and monstrous I am. Spent many sleepless nights, facing this horror and recognizing my own responsibility for what's occured. And I'm finally starting to break free. I confronted my parents about what they did to me, and left. I no longer stay in touch with them, never regreted this decision. And I'm slowly getting better.I no longer see my ex, though he was more than happy to come to see me and try to force me to have sex with him even later on and for quite a time. I'm doing much better without him, In fact I'm doing better than ever.But... there's this sex issue with which I just can't deal. I know I basically opened myself for an exploitation, invited everything that has happened, I could have avoid it and I didn't. I know there's noone to blame for that except of me. And yet I can't process or maybe just accept it. I'm completely stuck and don't know what to do. I need someone to point me what am I doing wrong. If you can, please help. Thanks for reading, Sorry for my crappy english and lack of communication skills.

Hi everyone. I'm an artist, working now as an illustrator in board games development. And I do regular digital paintings after work as well and occasionally some traditional art. I'm obsessed with creation process as such, whether it's music, art, sculpture sewing, anything actually. I'm a new listener to the podcasts, similar ideas were always in my mind, though I could never make a whole out of it. So I'm glad I have this opportunity to listen and be a part of larger community. So far I've met just one man, who shares my views, and who have actually pointed me this page, it would be nice to get to know some more people like that. Since I make art and I'm not that bad at it, I thought I could try to put some meaning into it and contribute to the community by spreading the ideas through art. And I'd love to discuss art concepts to be created with anyone who is interested. Other than that my mind is still pretty much in the state of mess (though my logical processing works well), I'm working on myself for just 1,5 year, BPD case with depression and some PTSD symptoms, after complete breakdown (though I'm trying hard not to bite anymore ) and I have difficulties with communication in general, just so you would know. You can google my nick, you will find my deviantArt page if you're interested. And apologies for my crappy english, I'm trying to do my best. Cheers!