Bipedal Primate
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Posts
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Days Won
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Everything posted by Bipedal Primate
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Written summary can be found at: Self-Knowledge Daily -
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- steven franssen
- narcissism
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The monsters inside us and how they get there. Why do targets stay with narcissistic abusers? Why do people stay in contact with abusive family members?
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- narcissistic abuse
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Narcissists Dehumanize Targets w/ Psychiatric Labels
Bipedal Primate replied to Bipedal Primate's topic in Self Knowledge
No. I'm not making the claim that labels are bad. I think labels are useful, especially when I'm short on time and/or I don't have the emotional energy to go into detail about said topic. I am sharing two observations: 1. Manipulative people actively utilize language(labels) to gaslight targets, with the intent to deceive and exploit. 2. I prefer human experience language, with people I don't know, because there is less chance of being misunderstood. Many labels are culturally based and will vary in meaning from region to region. For example, the label Narcissist is not used in all countries/cultures. Therefore, I might choose to use human experience language with a particular person or group. Instead of saying 'narcissist,' I might say, 'someone with zero empathy and the desire to exploit. -
Self-identifying as mentally ill holds the door wide open for abusers to destroy the target's recovery process. Advocates of codependent relationships utilize psychiatric labels to manipulate and brainwash targets into the false belief that they have to rely on others to survive; ultimately destroying the target's sense of self and their autonomy. Psychiatric labels often perpetuate victim blaming, which then leads to people ignoring the primary cause of the target's behavior and/or emotional distress. [For example, high energy young boys are often scapegoated by narcissistic parents, with the label of ADHD.] If you have gained value from watching this video, please consider leaving a positive rating! :-) // https://www.youtube.com/c/sachaslone // 5000+ subscribers // 100+ videos //
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https://www.youtube.com/c/sachaslone
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- narcissism
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Please check out more of my videos about 'Counter Manipulation Adaptative Stratagems' at https://www.youtube.com/c/sachaslone Counter Manipulation should not be confused with hostile aggression(reactive) or instrumental aggression(proactive). Environmental survival adaptation is not rooted in aggression, because evolutionary adaptation is not exploitative, desire based, or meant to harm. 1.) Hostile 'reactive' aggression is fear and anger based with the goal of causing emotional and/or physical pain . 2.) Instrumental 'proactive' aggression is pre-planned and motivated by a personal desire to dominate and exploit the target. 3.) Counter manipulation is an environmental survival adaptation that merely confuses the abuser into voluntarily disengaging with little to no harm to the target. Counter Manipulation is different from reactive and proactive aggression because the target is simply adapting to their environment. The target adapts in order to avoid detection, to distract the predator long enough to get away, or to fool the predator into thinking they are undesirable prey. The process of 'adaptation' is not hostile or exploitative. For example, an instrumental aggressor proactively engages with the goal to dominate and exploit for their own personal gain. A reactive hostile aggressor's goal is to harm the attacker emotionally and/or cause physical harm. "Anti-predator adaptations are mechanisms developed through evolution that assist prey organisms in their constant struggle against predators. Throughout the animal kingdom, adaptations have evolved for every stage of this struggle. The first line of defense consists in avoiding detection, through mechanisms such as camouflage, living underground, or nocturnality. Alternatively, prey animals may ward off attack, whether by advertising the presence of strong defenses in aposematism, by mimicking animals which do possess such defenses, by startling the attacker, by signaling to the predator that pursuit is not worthwhile, by distraction, by using defensive structures such as spines, and by living in a group. Members of groups are at reduced risk of predation, despite the increased conspicuousness of a group, through improved vigilance, predator confusion, and the likelihood that the predator will attack some other individual. Some prey species are capable of fighting back against predators, whether with chemicals, through communal defense, or by ejecting noxious materials. Finally, some species are able to escape even when caught by sacrificing certain body parts: crabs can shed a claw, while lizards can shed their tails, often distracting predators long enough to permit the prey to escape." Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia sources: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://www.manipulative-people.com/ http://study.com/academy/lesson/aggressive-behavior-definition-types-signs.html
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Yes, I agree, narcissists are like weeds, we must 'keep vigilant.' :-) Thank you for the lovely compliment. Another funny quote: Don't break my leg and then try to sell me a broken crutch! :-D
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Great article! :-)
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PRO TIP: Covert passive aggressive manipulators love to start conversations with: "I'm concerned about you." "I care about you." "I'm worried about you." This type of passive aggressive communication is a strategy used by covert manipulators as a way to level up their dominance, to intimidate the target, to leave the target feeling self-doubt, and to put the target on the defensive. Manipulators want to control the target's emotions and actions. In my opinion, a better way to start a conversation is with curiosity. For example, "How are you? I am very curious to know more about what has happened. A healthy person, who is in ally, will never start a conversation putting you on the defensive. A true friend who respects you, will want to hear about what has happened, from you, before they solidify their thoughts and feelings. The appropriate time for a friend to declare 'I'm worried about you' is after you have told them the story! <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/USO6gq5hHJ4"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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- manipulators
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Thank you for the positive feedback! I am happy to know I am providing value. :-)
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I doubt you are a sociopath. I'm guessing you are a person who grew up in an abusive environment, like myself, and you have developed 'defense mechanisms' to mask and shield you from 'feeling' --specifically emotional pain. Your description, of yourself, is a normal reaction/result of abuse. Your defense mechanisms have absolutely kept you alive, without them you probably would have killed yourself. You clearly have a lot of fucking pain being held captive inside of you. I suggest you consider doing a year of IFS therapy, in addition to participating in a free community peer-to-peer counseling service. I can personally relate to almost everything you have shared. There was a time in my life when I thought I was damaged and mentally ill due to the fact I did not think I had 'emotions.' Not having emotions is how I survived as a child and I carried this into adulthood. After processing my childhood abuse, I then understood the difference between my false-self and my true-self. IFS is what helped me pull my true self out into the open. The best part about IFS is that you can do it on your own.
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- narcissism
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I think all online toxic people eventually out themselves, you just have to pay attention to their manipulative posting patterns, specifically patterns of invalidation. I made a video about outing toxic people on facebook, but I think the patterns I talk about can easily translate to other online platforms.
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I think this passage does a great job of describing what online manipulation and trolls look like! Article by: Joel Patterson November 27, 2015 Curiosity is not just putting a question mark a the end of a sentence any more than love is simply uttering the statement, "I love you." Curiosity is a state of mind. It's something you feel. And it's something you can measure by a person's behavior as well, just like love. However, just like love, curiosity can be feigned for the sole purpose of manipulating you. For example, love bombing is a form psychological manipulation in order to create a feeling of unity within the group members of a cult against a society perceived as hostile. Trolls often do something that I'd like to call, "curiosity bombing" in order to create feelings of frustration within the truth teller. From my experience the curiosity is bait to get you to enter into a win-lose interaction, wherein the purpose is not to explore your ideas, but to dismiss and nit pick them into oblivion as well as to condemn you if they are the type to do that. In these interactions they are the prosecutor. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. In their minds your're already wrong. They hold a foregone conclusion. So, no matter how well you answer a question, they simply move on to another question and another and another until you become frustrated. Like the cliche example of passive aggression wherein somebody provokes you only to then mock you. "Woah, what's going on with you? Somebody's cranky today." The goal to to frustrate you, make you feel impotent, and to deceive your heart so that you turn away from truth. What I've learned from nearly 5 years of having conversations about philosophy with people is that usually I know at the very beginning how the conversation is going to go in my gut. Now, when I have a bad feeling, I take that wisdom seriously, answer a question or two and if I get the sense things are wrong I'll say, "here's some places you can look for your answers that are far better resources than me. Take control of your learning." I mean, If you want to fish, I can show you where to fish, but I'm not going to fish for anyone. Life is short and my time is precious. Genuinely curious people will have no problem doing further research on their own accord. You couldn't stop them from fishing.... knowledge fish from the lake of philosophy....anytime? You know what I mean. [ Find more of Joel's work @ http://selfknowledgedaily.weebly.com/topics ]
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I think it is normal for targets to adopt the toxic traits that were imprinted onto them after years and decades of emotional abuse. In my opinion, there are two types of former targets who leave abusive relationships. 1.) this target will eventually ask the question, "Am I a toxic person?" "Why am I behaving like this?" "This is not who I want to be." After engaging in self-work and seeking therapy and/or peer support, this target will slowly shed the toxic traits they adopted from their abuser/s and will look for win-win relationships. 2.) this target will never ask if they are toxic and will go through life spreading the virus of win-lose relationships. Narcissistic abusers destroy the target's sense of self and brainwash the target into believing they are a zero and need to lie and manipulate to survive. The target becomes an abuser. Thank you for taking the time to share! I am very curious to learn more about how you have come to the conclusion you are a sociopath. Specifically the question, "What makes you believe you are a sociopath?" Feel free to PM anytime. I just made a video breaking down the Narcissism spectrum with a basic overview of the differences between a classic, overt, covert, and sociopath. Yes, I agree. My heart goes out to targets who start the process of acknowledging and accepting the reality of the abuse they endured. Breaking down years of barriers that shielded me from the painful truth was devastating. Whilst working as a counselor with recovering addicts, I was told many times that detoxing from their abuser was harder than giving up their heroin addiction. After years of brainwashing, targets develop both an emotional and physiological addiction to the abuser, especially when the abuser uses the reward and punishment strategy to control the target, also known as the sweet-mean-cycle. This is the type of abuse I experienced with my abuser, my mom. Thank you for such a lovely compliment. I am happy to know I am providing value. :-)
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Every once in a while, targets who have gone no contact with their family of origin will start daydreaming and remembering the “happy good times” with the narcissist in their family. Well, I’m here to remind you that those were not fun, happy times. Those were disgusting, humiliating times. Those were very sad times. Self-Knowledge Daily — Doing the daily work of knowing who we are, and creating the conversation we want to see in the world. Search the growing archive of articles and videos by topic on our website. Follow us on Twitter and Facebook http://selfknowledgedaily.weebly.com/about.html
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First Date Warning Signs - My YouTube Video
Bipedal Primate replied to Bipedal Primate's topic in Self Knowledge
First I want to say, you are demonstrating a massive amount of thoughtfulness towards the person you plan to stop seeing, this really says a lot about your character and empathic nature. :-) I don't feel I owe anyone an explanation if I choose not to talk to them or see them again. Self-care is my primary concern, therefore I try my best to avoid putting myself at risk of being emotionally manipulated or guilt-tripped by the person I want to separate from. If the other person has treated me with respect and demonstrated a preference for reality over fantasy, then I would absolutely be open to sharing with them how I came to the conclusion that I no longer want to spend time with them. I would also take into consideration the other person's temperament and maturity level. I personally wouldn't waste my time trying to explain the 'why' if I answer yes to any of these questions: Does she personalize everything I say? Does she overreact or underreact when she feels uncomfortable? Is this person prone to being unreasonable, raising her voice, or becoming argumentative? If you do decide to have the break-up conversation, I suggest you RTR(if you've read the book), direct honest communication by simply sharing whatever it is you are feeling in that moment. Real-time Relationships If you feel comfortable sharing, I am curious to know what you decide to do and how it goes. :-)- 7 replies
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Hi, I just started a Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL6rGSlLAsX0dC3hgus8R6g I have 35 videos dedicated to identifying toxic people. Some of my video subjects include: sex with a Narcissist, how to stop negative self-talk, how to get verbal abusers to disengage using body language, How to tell the difference between a Sociopath and a Narcissist, What is Narcissistic Supply and why do they want it, How to know if you are emotionally healthy, How to recover from Narcissistic abuse, etc.. Here is a one of my favorite videos inspired by many of Stef's podcasts. title: First Date Warning Signs <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wFrWca3M9yk?rel=0"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Please check out my channel and let me know what you think. Much warmth, Sacha Slone
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As I read each example, I simultaneously had flash backs of these exact moments with a former narcissistic partner. Looking back, it is so clear how shallow and boring this person is. They would tell me the same boring stories [of their grand accomplishments] over and over again. This person also had a bizarre preoccupation with celebrity gossip. They would spend hours googling and reading about celebrities, and looking at google images of popular actors. I used to think their photographic memory of celebrity names and movie trivia was impressive, but now I realize that a photographic memory does not equal intelligence. This person never had any original ideas and they would *always* hijack any topic about myself and make it about them. [rolls eyes] I never understood how they would rage with anger, and two minutes later be as jolly as ever, as if nothing just happened. So creepy. Wow, these descriptions are spot on. I can see why this article is so popular, especially with people who have a history with a Narcissists. Great work! :-)
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Kevin, Excellent Video! I think this is such an important and misunderstood topic. The comments you received stating that it's the victim's burden to create the process of forgiveness is paradoxical thinking. For example, Bob punches me in the face, and then I'm expected to tell Bob, "I'm sorry." For me, forgiveness is the result of an action that can only be created by my abuser. Bob has to create the action of restitution in order to create the process of forgiveness. The abuser is the active party from start to finish, while I am the passive party from start to finish. I am the receiver of the process of forgiveness, exactly the same way I am the receiver of the wrong doing. For me, forgiveness can not exist without an action produced by my abuser. "forgiveness is not a charity." -Stef
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co-dependence: When I do for another, what they can do for themself, I am sending a message that they are not capable. A person who believes they are not capable will become dependent on others, and this is how a co-dependent relationship begins. When I offer encouragement and support for another to do for themself, I am facilitating that person's independence from others. Independent vs co-dependent relationships: How I identify an insecure attachment with a partner or friend: ~Automatic thoughts become a substitute for real relating ~I smile to attract attention or cry to garner sympathy ~My behavior is organized on a goal-directed basis, to achieve the conditions that make me feel secure ~My behaviours are designed to maintain proximity ~My mood and interests shift in accordance with partner/friend ~I protest departures, I produce grand greetings at returns, clingy when frightened, follow when able ~I only feel safe, happy, or relaxed whlie with partner/friend ~If partner/friend is inaccessible or unresponsive, insecure behaviors are more strongly exhibited ~Anxiety, illness, and fatigue increase insecure behaviors How I identify a secure attachment with a partner or friend: ~The relationship is based on mutuality -- it's not about me or you, it's about us. ~We practice direct honest communication and share how we feel in the moment ~We pay attention and listen to eachother ~We maintain personal boundaries ~We are sensitive and responsive to partner/friend's boundaries ~We are flexible and open to new ways of doing things/communicating ~Proximity is preferred but not necessary ~We feel emotionally supported even when not together ~Conflict or unhappiness is addressed and negotiated ~We view a crisis in the relationship as an opportunity instead of a disaster ~We use co-reflection to maintain values ~We are co-creating something new by learning and growing together ~We are moving towards the life we want ~We understand the impact of trauma
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When Emotional Abuse is Concealed as Praise
Bipedal Primate replied to Three's topic in Self Knowledge
Robert, Thank you so much for your insightful and thoughtful reply :-) It was spot on and exactly the kind of depth I was searching for. You were not reading too much into it at all. You definitely 'sensed' where I was going with my thought process and took it to the next level for me. As an ENFP, I have a lot of big ideas going off at once in my head and it can become hard for me to follow through with a detailed analysis of an individual thought, this is where an 'introverted intuitive thinker' comes in handy :-) --oh, I am very fascinated with your suggestion about answering people's questions 'literally' when you know they are being sarcastic or purposely obfuscating with the goal to manipulate. I spent last year studying how to use non-verbal communication as a tool to get verbal abusers to disengage, so this is right up my alley. Can you give a real life example of a situation like this? (I think in pictures, so an IRL example will help me solidify this new way of thinking about verbal communication as a tool to fend off emotional manipulators.) I am glad you brought up the use of the word victim because when I was working as a CPS counselor in Atlanta, I had removed this word from my vocabulary. My CPS training emphasized the importance of self-responsibility and a self-directed recovery plan. Over this past year it has crept back into my speech patterns, and I'm really annoyed I let that happen. Speech habits are so hard for me to break. {You are a great role model.} *side note: the other word that was pounded into my head at my CPS training was the replacement of 'help' with 'support.' Because when you 'help' someone you are sending them the message they are not capable of doing it on their own. While support implies, you can do it, and I am here to offer suggestions and cheer you on while you do it yourself. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me, I always take away something useful after reading your input. :-)