Zelenn

Update. I realize that sometimes people attend events without RSVPing, so I am including more specific info and I definitely WILL be there. It takes place right after my Japanese language exchange group, so I will be there. Here is where it's happening: Dunkin Donuts @ 5871 Fruitville Rd. Sarasota Fl Date and Time: 2:30 PM on Saturday December 13th. Should last an hour or so, or till people get tired of talking philosophy. A phone number:(941) 379-8254 Thats the # to Dunkin Donuts if you'd like to call and confirm before you make the trip, for some of you, it might be a long run. You can also PM me if you plan on attending and I will give you a cell by which to contact me if you have questions. Topic. I am preparing on discussing basic logic and unpacking some of the most common informal logical fallacies, unless anybody suggests otherwise, this is the material I am preparing. It would be cool to have an FDR group in the Tampa area, I know there is a strong Libertarian presence here already, so I look forward to meeting whoever wants to attend.

Well, I guess Im not sure what you are saying then. I kind of feel like i need a decoder ring to translate your message. It seems you're saying that I could have presented my thoughts in more "race neutral" wording. My only response is, "Yeah. But i didn't and i stated why and I think I had good reasons for considering the matter in such terms." The pot comment was me being facetious. I dont do drugs. Do you intend to reveal some of these "medium" things that can be said to two irrational, angry black women while speaking as a white male and stating, in no uncertain terms that the way they are behaving with their own child is inappropiate? I do not think that race is irrelevant here. Yes, lets explore it. Please explain what ought to be said or done. Misssed this in my first reading. Thank you Sir.

Im sorry. I thought you meant the question as a generality. I'll answer it now. Why would I bring up race unless i intended to include further cultural observations? No offense, but is this a real question? Assuming it is... Bringing up the race carding and mentioning the race in conjunction with the abuse IS mentioning a cultural observation.

And holy shit! Whaddaya know, the cop didnt do anything. And, bonus points, They're riding my bus... Its going to be a LONG 12 hours. I am now forced to ask myself a very burning question. Would my body be able to PHYSICALLY survive, the amount of pot, I would need to smoke to endure having a front row seat to this?

I'm not a racist, but with all the race baiting that happens in our culture, is it really so horrible that I would factor in the possibility of being race carded for addressing the issue?

I apologize for any confusion in posts. I meant to respond to each of you in kind in a single post, but apparently, most of you got rolled up into one post. If you feel offended or confused, please ask a question first. Lol. I'm probably NOT issuing the confusing statement as a response to you. Its cool. I actually agree with you mostly. I had to laugh at your story, i've been there. I once trained with this guy who sweated BUCKETS. I never understood that. Ive never sweat like that. Lol. And hey, all that is Aiki is certainly not gold either. LOTS of nonsense in Aikido, as I alluded to. Martial arts is not for everyone, but neither ballroom dancing or computer programming. How great is the free market?! Diversification of labor AND interests! You know I love it. :-)

So, I'm in a greyhound bus station and I am observing a little black boy being hit and yelled at by two women, presumably family. Knowing that I could not safely broach the issue without the women becoming hysterical and throwing the race card at me and fearing that I would be kicked off the bus for causing a scene, I resorted to alerting a black police officer to handle the matter. Two officers are dealing with the issue as I type and I have mixed feelings about this. I stopped child abuse, but used the State to do it. I'm glad I stopped the abuse, for now, I'm sure nothing will happen permanently, but was calling the State in my only option? How would you suggest a white male approach two black females and say, "Stop hitting your fucking kid, you soul destroying, violence edifying vermin!"

I second this. I must humbly admit that I am quite a "lightweight" in the realm of "rational" philosophy. I will admit that MUCH of the content on this site and Stef's work turns my brain into shit sometimes. Lol. I still keep pushing for new and better knowledge, but admittedly, some topics appear to be way too advances for me as of yet. I am working through Objectivist Epistemology and an expansion of what Logic I can claim to know. Although I am ever the eager learner, I will appreciate the forum's NOT nuking my brain with knowledge beyond my station. Thanks. :-)

I know nothing about TKD, so I can't comment on it. But I can say this. I agree completely that Eastern Philosophy really ought to be kept out. I said in another post that a rational philosophy is highly necessary to navigate the usually very murky waters of a martial art cultivated in Shinto philosophy (if you can call Shinto a philosophy, its basically culturally enforced Animism.) What Aikido has going for it, philosophically, is that the NAP is basically at its root. It is an art which expressly focuses on training to the point where, martially, you can be victorious while doing the least amount of damage possible. This is not to say that Aikido is incapable of doing damage only that the goal of an Aikidoka is to minimize damage and lessen violence, while in boxing for example, emphasis is placed on doing massive damage and anger is considered helpful to facilitate this. Aikido would never recommend fighting in anger and what makes Aikido well suited as a form of "physical introspection" is what we call the "internal practice." Being aware of ones emotions and the intention one is expressing through the art. A story. I was on the mat with a friend of mine and he was much more experienced than I. We were training Randori (chaotic technique/ grabbing) and during our training it was obvious that he was better and that my techniques were failing and that I was trying too hard to "force" the Kotegaeishi, or the Sankkyo, instead of being fluid and receptive and sensitive to his movement and doing whatever was necessitated by his own actions. (Let me say this, YOU don't do Aikido. Your opponent does Aikido to himself and you merely facilitate your opponent's hurting himself with his own anger. You evade his Tsuki and place your hand on his, and when he circles around to attack, he "does" Kotegaeishi to himself.) I became very frustrated by my lack of skill and envious of his skill. Well, I went in for a Shomenuchi and he beautifully countered with Ikkyo. However, fueled by anger and jealousy, I did not "let" Ikkyo happen. I rolled out of it and kicking my legs off the ground I launched a devastating double kick to his face. In a split second I saw my friends face of fear as he recognized what was occuring and in that moment I was horrified at my own behavior. Right as my feet were about to strike him in the face, I parted my legs and my feet glided past either side of his head. We both sat there on the mat looking at each other and we both knew that I had, "A violent intention in my feet." This opened up the opportunity for conversation about my emotions and internal state and feelings of helplessness in the face if his skill. If that is not self knowledge, I'm not sure what is. Ya know, we watch old kung fun movies where the old master says something like, "You had a murderous intention in your blade," and we think that's nonsense, but its a very apt appreciation of how internal states of mind and emotion may be expressed and communicated through the movement. Something to think about. I must apologize. I never meant to give the impression that I am not calm "off the mat." I have emotions that require introspection, same as anybody I suppose, but I do not walk around holding anger and then release it in some dudes face via a boot to the head. There is nothing wrong with anger. Only, it is not good to dwell on it. Deal with it yes, go to therapy yes, sit around and brood about negative things all day... not healthy methinks. Sometimes, anger is an entirely appropriate response. Anger is not bad. It is an important emotion, like all emotions. It can be a great indictor saying, "Look here." I would agree that a traumatic childhood is "probably" a prerequisite for martial arts training. I can't see a reason why someone would train in a fighting art if they feel they have no need for fighting. That being said however, Aikido's martial applications are entirely beside the point for me, and were irrelevant to my decision to take up Aikido. I don't get in fights anymore. Hell, I haven't been in a "real" act of violence since I started a bar brawl in Singapore. And I didn't even stay to fight it! Lol. Shore patrol was coming, I got outta there quick. I can see why someone might take up Aikido without a traumatic childhood. Its very simple. It is ALL SMILES in my dojo. Men, women, kids... not a frown to be seen, usually. Boxing generally train with a scowl, Karate is very blocky, hard and crushing, BJJ is... a can of ass whopping. Aikido, is the complete and exact opposite of those arts, excepting advanced students of Aikido or students who have a healthy and serious appreciation for Aikido as a topic of study. I'm the latter. With these two specimens, training is more than just "that thing you do on Wednesday nights," and training becomes an investigation of attention, focus, movement, resisting mental distraction, timing, spacing, the emotional quality of ones technique, what ones Ukemi (basically falling) skills say about their internal state, and feeling into your training partner by directing ones attention to the Kinesthetic sense... Etc Aikido can be an excellent way to cultivate empathy and a sense of connection with your training partner. There is even such a concept in Aikido as, "The Connection." We talk about it constantly. "Maintain your connection. Extend into your partner. Don't let your connection collapse. Etc etc." Aikido is even referred to sometimes as a "conversation." There's a lot of good things to be explored here. ^^^This.^^^ I understand your inability to communicate Aikido. So often Aikido boils down to, "Dude, grab my wrist SO I can show you what I mean." Aikido is a Kinesthetic experience. I am interested in your training. Was it a ronin dojo or affiliated with the Aikikai? I've recently moved to Florida and am excited to train in a dojo founded by Saotome Sensei. I spent some time in Santa Cruz and got to grab Linda Holiday Sensei, Yoshi Shibata Sensei, and Glenn Kimoto Sensei. Ironically, America seems to have a better Aikido scene than Japan where it originated. :-) I don't have much to add. Since I agree with you, there's not much to say other than, "Yup." Lol. I would like to emphasize that my studies of Japan as a culture, through my Aikido training, make me REALLY glad, that I am not Japanese. No disrespect to the Japanese, many of my favorite things come from there, but Japan is a HOTBED of irrationality and it is important to be aware of the cultural indoctrination that can come on a little strong in Aikido. Osense was an amazing martial artist and a seeker of knowledge, going unfortunately to the sources available to him, Shinto and Zen preeminently, so it is important to be aware that Aiki philosophy is founded upon Omotokyo nonsense. Osenei was taken in by that charlatan Onisaburo and much of the hippy new ageyness he espoused comes from there. 2. Yes, Aikido is NOT am form of self knowledge, not entirely. Therapy and philosophy are definitely required to work through issues of abuse. 3. I'm glad you mentioned trauma being "in" the body. Aikido has sparked a passion in me to explore what I call, "the Kinesthetic dimension of experience." That's a fancy way of saying, "explore my body's sensory experience and notice what I do in fact notice. I have noticed through my training that there are aspects of my physical body that I had ceased to really notice or connect with mentally, most likely due to abuse. Training requires me to use " all of myself" and so, my awareness of my body has been "reincluding" aspects of my body that I had stopped noticing. And emotions come up and then I use philosophy to explore them. I have much more to say on this and am highly interested in massage therapy, not for any effects it might have of the body, but for its seemingly well documented effects on depression and anxiety. I am wondering if there is something to be said for using the body to process information, a kind of Kinesthetic intelligence. It seems to me that there is ALOT of intelligence from the "neck down."

1. I would mostly agree that Aikido tends towards hippy dippy spiritual mumbo jumbo. Aikido is in fact a devestatingly effective combat art derived from the multiple samurai arts Ueshiba studied throughout his life (largely motivated by violent early childhood and young adult experiences.) I think it could be argued that Aikido is mostly a "tonning down" of Daito Ryu Aikijutsu taught to Ueshiba by Sokaku Takeda. Politically speaking, the Aikikai in Hombu Japan (Aikido world HQ) is taking the spiritual new agey nonsense a bit literally, and the word has been coming down from the top to stop weapons training. Aikido is NOT an empty handed martial art. This is important so it gets its own isolated sentence. Aikido is a weapons based, multiple attacker oriented martial art. That being said, when you have a lot of Aikidoka who do not understand that empty handed Yokomenuchi is actually simulating a diagonal knife attack... Well, it does start to look like hippies dancing in their pajamas. So, what you say is not entirely untrue. My counter argument would be that, "what ever they're doing, if there isn't a Bokken (wooden sword), a Jo (short wooden stick), a Tanto (knife, generally wooden), and a Yari (spear) involved then it is NOT Aikido." 2. I never meant to suggest that Aikido was a substitute for philosophy. Indeed, a rational philosophy is HIGHLY necessary when training in Aikido specifically because its own philosophy is so internally inconsistent and because Osensei was something of a hypocrite. Many Aikidoka treat Osensei like "Jesus with a samurai sword" lol, and the man just doesn't live up to the new agey legend. Its almost like they've never even read his book Budo, circa 1930's. In it, one will find a RADICALLY different fighting system and philosophy from what he espoused later in his older age. Make no mistake, Osensei was a hard man that softened, perhaps due to wisdom, as he aged. He... EVENTUALLY... espoused a philosophy of compassion and of training compassion with Aikido, but he most certainly did not start that way. 3. That the trauma is in the body.. Excellent point! I had been wondering how I was going to express this idea in words, but since you and another poster touched in this, I think it will be much easier to discuss. I have much more to say on this topic, but I am preoccupied at the moment and do not have the time for such lengthy writing, but I will come back to this.

... OK then. I'm going to try really hard to NOT be offended by this. I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but your post has an overtone of, "You don't know what you're experiencing. Let me tell you what you experience." So, I will start by saying, "You don't get to do that." Addressing certain elements of your post... 1. I am very well aware that my childhood was not typical. I was being facetious. This misunderstanding is not your fault. Humor is so often lost in online communications. Of course based on this, you go on to tell me that I am not upset about my childhood "at all." Let's be careful about making claims about what others are experiencing. 2. The spankings are significantly lesser in magnitude and occurrence. Happened maybe three times in total and both parents would explain why they were doing this. I know that doesn't make it any better, but there is a HUGE difference between spanking your kid because you think you are doing what's right and engaging in conscious, willful evil. My parents are not bad people, they're just "really limited." They allowed "experts" to tell them how to raise their kids. The church said, "spare the rod, spoil the child" so my parents spanked us (which is NOT what that verse means.) The school said, "He needs Ritalin." So, I got a good dose of that too. Again, my parents are not evil, they're weak and easily swayed. Regarding the babysitter abuse, it happened only twice and when my father discovered the markings on my legs, he was the cop that arrested the whole crew in that daycare center. Again, a big difference between an error of evil and an error of knowledge. My parents and I have worked through these things, I did have a period where I was VERY upset about my childhood, but I've largely dealt with it. 3. Not sure what the sister comment is about. I only said she was present in that baby sitter abuse, nothing else. My sister never assaulted me, nor did I say that. Not sure what to make of this. 4. Knife fights happened outside of school "on the block." I had so much (legitimate) anger as a child, that I caused a lot of my own problems. My mouth got me in serious trouble. This may be cliché, but "My ego was writing checks, my body couldn't cash." :-) I wouldn't tolerate disrespect, even though I was half the size of other kids, and thus it was actually I who threw the first punch. Part of my self knowledge was discovering just how often I was causing my own problems with my WILDLY innapropriate anger responses. So... The knife fights were kind of on me. 5. Forgive me for taking offense to your last comment in particular, but a couple of tattoos, a work out or two, and "a while" in TKD are not the same thing as my experiences in Aikido. Aikido is not an endorphine rush.

Its not rude. MOSTLY, typical kids in school. What was not typical about the experience was the degree of violence involved. Knife fights. Fighting multiple kids at once... in a construction site armed only with a 2x4. Drowned in a sewer. Etc etc. And I wasn't even 12 years old yet after these experiences I've mentioned. On a significantly lesser note; parents spanked me and not very often at all, baby sitters beat me and my sister with switches. Ya know... Typical childhood. I never thought a martial art would be where I would feel calm. I tried MANY martial arts before Aikido and all of the others made me feel very uncomfortable. They were so violent and placed a premium on being aggressive and dominating. Of course, placing myself in a fighting situation like BJJ or when I dabbled in boxing, brought out a lot of anger and some of my very not nice qualities. Aikido doesn't do that. Aikido is an overtly philosophical martial art. I don't agree with most of Aikido philosophy (its derived heavily from Shinto religion and Zen confusions), but Aikido does have at its core, what is basically the Non Aggression Principle. This makes Aikido incredibly unique as fighting systems go.

I realize aggressive activities don't get much love around here, but I train in a Martial Art called Aikido and I have found Aikido wonderfully instructive as a means of aqcuiring knowledge of my emotions and working through my emotions regarding childhood bullying and abuse. Are there any other martial artists here? And do you find the study useful to you or anger producing?

Good morning all. I live in FL around the Tampa Bay area and I would like to host a meet up if anyone is in the area and interested. Ideally, it would be around the Dec 13th, though I am not dogmatic about the date and since my personal culinary preference is for sushi, I thought we might hold this meeting at a sushi restauraunt. If you are interested in attending send me a message and we'll negotiate a suitable date, time, and location. As far as topic is concerned, I would like to suggest, and it is only a suggestion, that we discuss EITHER the Informal Fallacies of Logic OR we can discuss a specific chapter in UPB or any of Stef's other writings, which if you didn't know, can be downloaded for free here at the site. Looking forward to our discussion.

The title says it all, I would like to ask Stef to make a couple videos on Logic and on building arguments from First Principles. He may have done so already. If he has, I couldn't find them. Also, I have recently donated by setting up a reccurring donation, but I wasn't signed in when I did it. Is there a way to "attach" the donation to my username? Thanks.

Thank you for the welcomes. Zen and other mystic philosophies, contain a very large dose of "ambition poison." Things like "No Mind, The Ideal Useless Man, Purposelessness, No Preference etc" and all of the koans and the whole preoccupation with nonsensical puzzles and existential riddles. He whole philosophy seems designed to kill ambition, paralyze judgment, and convince one of the meaninglessness of life. I'm aware that this is not an argument. I haven't proven anything. These are just my thoughts and my experiences with Zen and I did practice earnestly for 3 years or so, and still on occasion, practice meditation which I find very useful. Zen DOES have some good elements and practices, but I have found it very hard to separate the "food from the poison." Stef recently made a video about Christianity with a listener and discussed that if the Bible is "half truth and half lies" that would be worse than if it were all true or all false, because when its half and half you don't know which will get you to heaven and which is loss and sends you to hell. Zen is similar. It has its merits, but its so bound up with a lot of harmful nonsense, that I think one is better off just leaving it alone. Just my. 02 :-)

Quick intro. My name is Bryan and I'm am a truck driver, for now, from Florida. I am driving to earn enough money to go to Paramedic school. I realize health care is screwed, but I love anatomy, physiology, biology, and chemistry too much to stay away. Used to be an EMT and a Nurse Aide but had my ambition slaughtered at 21 by Zen Buddhism. Now at 26 Stef's work, along with a very healthy dose of Ayn Rand, has reawakened my ambition. Medic school is in August. As a truck driver I have WAY more time than I want sitting doing nothing, so I listen to Stef's podcasts, The Fountainhead for the 5th time, and lectures on medicine. That being said, I realize this is my first post, so this may be borderline creepy for some, but if anyone wants to chat over the phone about Anarchy, Economics, Peaceful Parenting, etc etc, send me a message. I have a Bluetooth, so it's not dangerous or State goon provoking (illegal.) Glad to be in the forum.