perrytheplat

Some of you guys may know me already but some may not. I've listened to Freedomain Radio for a very long time and I first joined the community here in early 2015. At the time I was seeking knowledge, help, and understanding after a failed relationship. Let's just say I learned a lot and I'm very thankful. I'm back on the forums for a different reason this time (social anxiety disorder .. which is much bigger and more important), but this time I will be here to stay. I will be sharing my story, experiences, and progress over time here on the forums for both myself and anyone else that it may benefit. What prompted me to realize that I have a problem and that I need to seek help? Recently, the company I work for hired a new marketing company to work for us. They flew to New York to meet us all and we went out to a business dinner. When they arrived, I was a bit tense as I have always been in social interactions with new people and in general. I greeted them, but mostly kept to myself (at my desk) hiding away pretending like I was busy. I made no effort to really get to know any of them, not because I didn't want to, but because I found it incredibly difficult. We then took them out to dinner. There were about 12 of us in the group and I do much worse in groups than I do 1 on 1. The anxiety got worse as I continued my quiet behavior. I was sitting there listening to them all talk to each other in smaller groups at the large table, about things that had nothing at all to do with business or our company. It seemed like they were just very skilled at having a good time and talking about non-work related things ... their "social skills" were much better than mine. I sat there moving from listening to one conversation to another, trying to break in or find something to add to insert myself in the conversation. It made me more anxious and uncomfortable that it just wasn't working for me and that they were all noticing that something was not right. The next day, one of the new marketing guys directly mentioned to me that I was so quiet and that made it worse. Bottom line is that I'm 27 and I've lived with severe social anxiety all of my life and if I don't do something about it now, I will continue to lead an unhappy fruitless life. It's terrible because it affects all aspects of life, because ... well ... life is a social adventure (work, friendships, family, relationships). I can't continue such a negative lifestyle where I am always the world's victim and pretend that somewhere down the line I will be happy and have the jobs, friendships, and relationships I want in life. I am fortunate enough to have opportunities in life but the anxiety has kept me from accepting the great stuff that life has to offer. I've thought about this in the past, but I always had a toxic group of friends to fall back on which allowed me to ignore the problem. I guess the thinking was well I have some people that spend time with me ... so I can't be all that broken. They must like me, right? WRONG. All of the toxic people in my life showed themselves out on their own in one way or another or I made the decision to remove them myself 6 months ago. They were never really friends to begin with. They were leaches and abusers. It was a huge step for me, but I actually signed up to see a therapist about my problems and am currently doing CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). I already had my first session which went well. I will be doing my second session tomorrow.

@endtheusurpations Well I already worked up the short letter and sent it about 3 week ago and got no response. Just yesterday at around 5:30PM, I received a text from her acknowledging that she received my note and saying thank you. I waited several hours as I was doing other things ... thought about it for a little bit ... and just said you're welcome. I think primarily it was owning up to what I had done and possibly more about forgiving myself and moving forward. I also wanted to convey sorrow and apology after realizing how I behaved toward her.

Anyone have any new thoughts on this?

@The Robin I had a great conversation on here the other night with someone on chat. I'm not sure if restitution is possible in this particular situation. Good question. If restitution was possible I would be happy to provide it. It's more about owning up to my bad behaviors and apologizing for the hurt I've inflicted. I would guess that somewhere within all of that is a plea for forgiveness although I'm not sure that's what I would really be doing.

If only I sought Timbaland's counsel months ago .. lol

I must still be restricted from posting a certain amount of comments because I'm new here. It looks like my last comment didn't post @Matthew: Yes that would be equally as brutal. I didn't overtly do that to her. It was more of a soft abusiveness. I can go more into details about specific interactions if that helps. I think it can make sense to be sorry for wrongs that I have committed regardless of whether the other person is mature enough to admit to their wrongs right now. @Lingum: We got into the relationship very quickly as we both had positive things happening in our lives at the time. We both rushed into it ... we didn't really choose each other based on extensive friendship or discussion. We both share responsibility for that. I wanted to work on things in an open and honest manner but I ended up feeling like I couldn't be honest and say what I felt because it would end the relationship. That's probably why I continued trying to compromise ... but eventually I realized I was compromising my virtues rather than be tolerant. Because I have those virtues, it turned me into someone else who was frustrated and could no longer be that way. She ended up having some qualities of my mom which yeah were totally dysfunctional. I behaved the way I normally do with all relationships in that I recognize the limitations of each type of relationship and act accordingly, but maybe romantic relationships are different in the regard. I'm not sure how you can be with someone who has little regard for your feelings or thoughts. In that instance, there really shouldn't be any limitations. I'm not sure she was trying to make excuses in regard to telling me about her triggers, but then again I don't know. It was the first time I've heard of it from her. It's the same when I tell you that I now realize certain triggers that make me react in certain ways. It's more of an understanding than an excuse. Of course I am still responsible for my actions regardless of the explanation. So is she. Where you may be right is in where she said she had no intention in challenging her issues after being consciously aware. I never heard of her going to therapy or expressing any way to challenge her issues. I think she thought highly of herelf that she didn't have to change or something. She often took offense when I would suggest things or offer an opinion. We were both guilty of blarping at each other a good amount of the time. She would think that I would be trying to make decisions for her or tell her what to do or talk to her like she's stupid.

@Matt You're right about disregard to my feelings being equally as brutal as the emotional bullying I did.You're right ... a good amount of the time I didn't invalidate her feelings. As much as I was confused and feeling hurt about her walking out on me in the movie theater and then coming back with the story about getting molested as a child ... I felt absolutely terrible to know that someone I loved had gone through such a terrible life experience. I think my capacity to sympathize and empathize with her on multiple ocassions shows that I am not a mean spirited individual by nature. I've been talking in general/broad terms because that's how I wish to communicate to her. I feel that pinning down specifics will only give her ammunition to argue and fight with me if she so chooses. I can totally recount many experiences deatil for detail if you think that helps. I'm definitely open to share anything. I actually would be happy to call into the radio show about my issue. That would be awesome. Hmm ... maybe you're right maybe it is white knighting ... I guess I don't really care how she receives it or if she feels remorse at this point. I think apologizing for what I did is more important for myself than anything else. I already feel great about it ... not about the white knighting .. but that I've been able to successfully reach this point. I would be apologizing for my part in it. I recongize that I was an emotional bully at the time and that is what I'm apologizing for ... what I did in the past. @Lingum Let me include something that maybe I left out. After dumping me she asked if we could remain friends to which I took some time to think about and denied. I told her that being just friends is not something I wanted. I wouldn't be able to downgrade our relationship to friendship after she didn't want to work with me to move forward. I told her if she changed her mind to reach out to me, but that I was moving on with my life. I'm assuming she has no interest in growing because she has not once reached out to actually speak with me in any form. What she did at first after dumping me was request me on facebook the following week after defriending me. I didn't know how to receive it, so I accepted and remained silent. She removed me the following morning. Months later she requested me again and this time I felt hurt that she was doing that because I couldn't understand why she was doing it absent actual communication. I have no way of knowing whether or not she has done any work on herself ... but she definitely has not cared enough to verbally communicate that to me (which I think is a requirement among adults) haha. Yeah we were definitely both dysfunctional. She found it out first, and chose to leave me. I found out the truth later. I can definitely say that being with her ... I've picked up some good things along with some bad ones. I didn't recognize the bad ones until they destroyed my relationship. I'm thankful for what good things I've been able to learn and acquire through this failed relationship ... thankful to her? nah not really ... that's my choice and hard work and doing ... she just happened to be part of the environment that allowed for that to happen. Maybe I'm confusing the different types of relationships. She's not a parent or a child ... but more like a peer. There were some similarities between her and my mom ... I didn't consciously choose her to be frank ... things happened fast and we learned about each other as things went along ... definitely not the right way to proceed. My behavior was pretty much the same way I handled all of my other relationships. I wouldn't say any of my other relationships have been different in the manner that I handled them. Interesting assertion about her delineating what she would keep on doing. I'm not 100% sure that's true because speaking for myself when I say that this is what happened and this is what I did, my explanation has little to do with whether I intend to address it or not. I think it would be fair to say that she was telling me that she would do something about it by not indicating that she was taking steps or would take steps to curtail its happening again.

Thanks for your answer Matt. I would love to call into the show about it as I do not have a therapist at the moment. I'm trying to find a good one. We both just kind of started talking and clicked and things went fast. Stef will laugh .. we took things in a sexual direction in no more than a week's time. In hindsight ... not such a great decision. We both knew something was wrong, but we didn't know what it was ... or at least I didn't. We lost connection. Speaking for myself, I was defending/attacking her for things she was doing but also probably because I had triggers from my past relationships. I can point out a few just to name some. What I did was sort of on par with emotional bullying and some blarping ... although she was guilty of the same thing. After we split she unfriended me, refriended me (accepted) and unfriended me again. Months later she sent me a request to which I ignored as it was painful and I was still trying to grow. (She wanted to remain friends ... and I told her I couldn't do that btw) I blocked her first to keep her out of sight so that I could grow. She did enable and encourage it (the testing that many women do). She would ask me for my feelings and then call me a pussy for telling them to her. I didn't stand for that one. She did that and then started crying which I figured was manipulative and I left. I wasn't going to take part in that bad acting (I thought at the time). Thanks in regard to the ACE thing. Yeah I know it's not a scale of how terrible it is. I think it's actually quite common to have some sort of ACE score since society is so messed up. I recognize and I'm proud of my decision to consciously make positive changes in my life ... I can't say the same for her ... for someone who hasn't even shown any remorse at all. That's not my problem though ... I just want to own my failures and my apology is part of that for me on a personal basis. Thanks for responding. Well of course it's both. She was hurt already due to her past, but I believe I also hurt her as well. I would say I was being an emotional bully. I didn't recognize the manner that she was communicating in. She was never loud or yelled or violent. She was more passive aggressive and silent and quiet. She would withdraw when something happened that she didn't like. She would wait maybe 20 minutes or an hour and then we would talk about it. I'm 100% positive that she was fighting ghosts of her past, but she was also taking things out on me ... as I now realize I was doing to her. While in some situations I was definitely the victim, in other situations, I was the bully. (just as guilty) Yes, we most likely found each other because on some level we were both dysfunctional individuals. As I wanted to work things out we quickly became "incompatible" in her own words .. which looking at it now ... of course we would be. She wanted to stay the same and I wanted to grow. She did all of the above. She would walk into the other room. She would get silent. And then come back at some point later and discuss things. She once time asked me for my feelings after I became visibly frustrated and I told her ... and then she called me a pussy ... to which I did not put up with. I left her apartment for the night. She usually took responsibility for her actions but also explained to me that certain things from her past triggered her. One time I took her, her brother, and his gf to the movies. And we got there late and there were not enough seats ... so my ex stands around quietly and then just walks out upon which I follow of course. She goes and sits on the steps remaining silent meanwhile I'm trying to find out why the person I love is so upset. She tells me she's going to go across the street for a drink and then goes elsewhere. I sit in my car and I go look for her and can't find her. She eventually comes back crying and explains being molested as a child and the movie theater being a trigger .... and that was the first time she ever clued me into that. Interestingly enough we had been to the movie theater before and that never happened. I've had trouble saying no to women in the past but I stopped that after that first terrible relationship with the one who pitted me against my friend. I recognized that pattern a while ago. That's why I've been super selective with my relationship partners and only dated few over the last couple of years. Most of my other relationships are definitely reciprocal. I know people's limitations and what they are capable of in regards to friendships and I approach them accordingly. In regard to my mom yeah that's a long topic to go over but yes ... the crying manipulative example is one thing that is not cool. She also has an interesting lack of moral agency or sense of responsibility to entertain the possibility that maybe she could have raised her children differently. Lot's of blarping behavior too. Our relationship is distant and fruitless as these limitations keep it from being so.

I've done some thinking about this and yes I can draw connections between my childhood and my past behaviors in relation to a lot of things. My ACE Score is a 4-5/10 Her ACE Score would be a 9/10 If I'm being honest, it was pure chance that we met each other. Everything happened very fast in the beginning as we didn't really know each other. It was unlike anything I've experienced before so perhaps I was looking for change. I know for instance I wouldn't want to be with someone like my mom. I also had a brother who had serious issues and was also abusive. It's part of why I don't live at my mom's house anymore. My brother also lives there. My father was a good father by default although he was also detached a bit because he worked 90% of the time. He never yelled or hit me and all of our interactions were always positive ones with no violence. He passed away several years ago of cancer. I was also diagnosed with UC 2 years after he passed which caused a lot of trauma and stress in my life. I've been through my fair share of things. I also had the bad experience in my early teens of having a girl get between me and my best friend and destroying that friendship by playing the both of us which resulted in difficulty connecting with and trusting others. I've dated between 5-10 people my whole life. Close to the single digits. Only slept with 2. I'm by no means one of those people who doesn't try to address issues and moves on to the next person to try and bury the truth.

The only thing that really interferes with my thoughts about it is the fact that because of the possibility that I am leaning too strongly in one direction and not applying equal moral agency to her. We are both responsible for what we did and said and it seems like after all of this time ... it seems like she feels no remorse for her part in things. I'm not looking to cast blame to relieve myself of my responsibility to any degree. I'm just thinking about it in reference to the type of person that she is (the virtues that she has). Some part of me does not agree with the fact that someone can do harm and act as if their mistakes and unjust actions were insignificant. Like Stef says often ... we found each other because we were compatible because we found each other at equal levels of growth. I'm not sure how self-aware she is of what she did or not and of course that's for her to explore and decide on her own time. It's quite possible that I've grown beyond where she is at the moment. I guess I'm kind of confused because I still have feelings for her. It would be great if we could grow and learn together, but that's not a decision for me to make. So I've resolved to stick with simple facts: 1. I've treated someone unjustly 2. I can only make choices for myself. 3. I legitimately feel remorse for doing unjust things to her as I should. 4. I hope that the things that I inflicted do not negatively affect her future as some past actions have subconsciously affected mine. That's all really. So I think I'm on the right track. I'm happy to answer any questions at all.

Seems like everyone on here is fishing for people people to join their special meetup groups or factions All jokes aside ... thanks for the welcoming party I live in Brooklyn and I work in Manhattan.

Topics: Equal moral agency Ghosts in the relationships Reciprocity in relationships I will keep it short and sweet. My ex dumped me 7 months ago. I had no clue what really happened at the time and I was super upset and puzzled. I knew there was a problem. I just couldn't find out what it was. After months of self-knowledge seeking, and a lot of time listening to Freedomain Radio, I found that the simplest answer and what she was telling me was true. After coming across several topics such as ghosts in our relationships, equal moral agency, and reciprocity in relationships, I got it. The truth: I really didn't listen to her and I was invalidating her feelings. Of course, this is how someone can fall out of love with you. It all makes sense now. I was stuck fighting the ghosts of my past relationships. (familial, platonic, romantic) Everyone has triggers and react certain ways. I didn't recognize it at the time but now I feel like a complete ****. Looking back, plain words can have so many meanings. I was not equipped with the tools to understand what I was being told. Of course, I didn't mean to do this but I did, and I wasn't even aware of it. That is terribly hurtful and I'm quite shocked at myself that I was capable of that and I'm deeply sorry for it. She deserved better.This was a really scary truth to confront but it's the truth. Is it too late after 7 months to say I'm sorry. We've both blocked each other on social media at this point. I would most likely have to send her a physical handwritten letter .. keep it short and simple ... with no expectations of anything. I just feel like I need to right a wrong before that corrosive experience can effect her life in bad ways ... similarly to how my past issues destroyed our relationships. Is it too late to apologize for hurting her? Back then I couldn't see the truth, but now I do and I feel like I treated a good person badly.

I agree with Stefan that you cannot downgrade relationships. You either have the best type of relationships possible or you have no relationship at all. It's a fraud and it's damaging to pretend to be friends with someone who was your lover. My ex left me last August. She wanted to remain friends. After taking some time to think about that, I told her that it just was not possible. It made no sense. We were going to love each other and have wonderful experiences except "here", "here", and "here ... and she decided that we were incompatiblbe somehow? She didn't want to discuss anything or communicate feelings at all. She wanted to ask about my feelings after I had felt taken advantage of ... and then use them to attack me? If we were somehow incompatible as lovers after 6 months ... what would make her in the same phrase ... think that we would even be remotely compatible as friends?

I'll have to check this out. I've wanted this for so long. It's annoying that I can't be doing other things on my phone while I'm listening to any of the freedomain radio youtube videos. Thanks for the info!

Ladies and Gents, After being a listener for a long time, I've decided to participate in the forum and hopefully in the chat. I found Stefan through Ron Paul and Libertarianism several years ago. He has one of the most awesome shows hands down! Since all of us can't always talk to Stef and ask him questions and for help, it's nice to have a place where we can all discuss things amongst each other. This is going to be awesome! Tom