Danske

PUA and MGTOW are both expressions of the same dysfunction. Fear of bonding with a woman.

You saw going to the police about this as the moral thing to do? Even when you know you hit no-one?

I'm guessing you were shamed a lot for the products of your efforts. To others throwing business advice at the guy when it's an emotional issue - this is a philosophy forum and you are not getting to the root of anything. It's also an insult to the guy's intelligence. It reminds me of my first (terrible) counsellor who gave cooking advice when I told her I was binging on junk food. It doesn't resolve the issue and in my experience people who do this are trying to set themselves up as an authority over someone who has shown vulnerability and THAT is their main goal. Not to help or understand.

"I wish they honestly hated me so that I can be left alone in peace." So you're leaving your decision to live in peace up to them?

You claim to be for individualism yet you ask 'what does the FDR community think'. As if the FDR community has one huge borg mind. Seems to me like you're doing this so that the concept of 'the FDR community' in your mind is easier to reject when you turn away from the arguments. 'Call me a coward so I can leave with closure! vindicated that this group is irrational and abusive!'.

This is GOA's Galt Speech. It really inspired me when I read it today.

Do you really find small talk 'blissful'?

Dsayers will not address the self-defense point. He will dissociate, regroup, then come back in a few days and post another virtue-signalling TL:DR I guarantee it. So sad when a psychological defence consumes someone. Poor guy.

What is it like to uncover a core belief? Does the feeling come first?

Actually this is the first post from dsayers that has annoyed me, despite numerous people who I KNOW are good philosophers warning me about him. I suppose it's only when someone is challenged that you discover their real character. Even demonstrated in the post is an incredible lack of curiosity and brevity. RoseCodex asks a simple question and dsayers creates a TL:DR in an attempt to overwhelm his opponent instead of having a back and forth. Rose gave him ONE point to rebut and dsayers creates a huge meandering list that would require a huge time investment to respond to or even coherently understand. It reeks to me of a fear of proper, connected engagement. Which is what he claims to be seeking.

> say you treat each other with respect Call him lazy and uninvolved > dating a wonderful man A man who isn't willing to sacrifice his preference to live seperately for the sake of your children's happiness

Wow, 4k posts and he still hasn't learnt to take a deep breath and process his triggers. A useful warning to others.

Hi Louise, I hope you are enjoying the conversation. There are quite a few FDR people all across the UK, if you are interested let me know and I can get you some group links. Dan

Dude just blarped all over me. He's not a philosopher.

Just a second question because I think I misread. Was the child shooting back or merely navigating a route out of the arena?

Hi Pod I have my theory about this dream but before I elaborate I'd really like to know what your feeling was right at the end of the dream and just after you woke up? Did you feel trapped in the arena? Like you threw away a chance to escape by killing the child? Did you feel despair / anger / relief upon awaking?

This doesn't take into account the multiplicity of the mind. We all have competing desires and goals held by different parts of us. There is my false self / coping mechanisms / defenses / cycle that wants to not take responsibility. But there is also another part of me that wants to - and is - breaking the chains. Perhaps the title of this post was unfortunate, it made it seems as if all parts of me have given up. This is not the case. There is no 'escape' from the false self, only integration of extreme parts and their transformation.

I'm not sure how warning people that a story could be triggering or traumatic is self-sabotaging? If anything it is having a respect for my own and other's boundaries. These kind of stories may be the most useful to people, but that is not to say they are for everyone all the time. Some people don't want to hear more tales of emotional abuse as they are painful and I don't want to sideswipe them. Does that make sense?

I actually think playing out the fantasies mentally can be destructive. Especially if it feels very real (adrenaline spikes etc). I try to catch myself as soon as I start creating a self-victimizing narrative now. It's not always easy but I'm catching it sooner and sooner. Though perhaps what you say about reminding yourself of the distinction between fantasy and reality could be helpful too, I have not done that. For me the 'acting out' by punching a sofa or mattress or screaming at the sea only seems to perpetuate the cycle. Because your body thinks 'oh, so we're warming up for battle right? the world is still dangerous right?' and makes the chemical changes accordingly. I think emotions are more likely to transform when we quietly sit with them and do not immediately seek to act them out. This requires both a safe environment (with someone who is also dead-set against abuse, not some clueless enabler like a lot of therapists are) and a determination to not 'act out' but rather to stay with the changing feelings and blocks to feeling.. basically whatever comes up. Does that make sense?

Thankyou. It means a lot to be empathised with in this regard, and I feel I can really accept that now I am aware of the cycle. The 'acting out' stage, where relationships are destroyed, I understand now that it is my choice whether or not I indulge that. Often I find myself creating fantasies of self-victimisation or immorality from others, acting out (even rehearsing in private), then after they (rightfully) retaliate or ostracise, I dissociate until my conscious mind 'forgets' (though the true self remembers of course). Thus the cycle plays out again and again. This cycle made the addition of 'acting out' inevitable. There was no choice to merely dissociate through my childhood. As with the medieval torturer, their victims were not allowed to faint through whatever torture was being carried out. Once dissociated the torture would stop, and the victim would be gently revived in order that the torture continue with as much conscious pain being experienced as possible. As for where I am currently, I have the choice to not act out, and to experience the pain and blocks that have been with me from the start but which I have ran from when it seemed no one could understand or deal with the rages. My accumulated past of bad relationships, I can also look at and accept now (as a relevant side note, I had siblings whom my mother sowed discontent with as she enjoyed watching us fight, thus stoking our own sadistic tendencies). Though the world still burns with humiliation, I will continue. Though everything I see, everything I touch, everything I think triggers humiliation I will continue. Though this currently renders me unfit for consistent application of my will in a field of interest. I will continue. Again, I thankyou for your kindness and for reading my story.

That's odd, my dreams tend to centre around chasing others but always being on the periphery. Always just unable to form connection, gain eye-contact, and I am always referred to in an offhand kind of way, as if I am a ghost. Never been chased in a dream.

First off, I believe this is somewhat of an emotional dump, so please move on if that's not your thing. However I think there is enough good information here to perhaps illuminate both my own and some aspects of other people's patterns. So last night as I sat with my feelings of envy and the emotional block of numbness, I had a breakthrough. It's like I could see the pattern of my life. A four stage unending cycle that keeps the false self in charge of me. When I picture how my mind operates, the false self is in charge all the time. Even now I believe. I picture it as this tall, vicious woman who picks up the true self (who I represent as a small child) by the collar of his hoodie (the true self being the feeling/emotional part of me). It then drags him around, parading it in front of other people like a show animal. "ABUSE HIM! ABUSE HIM!" says the false self, and with this going on in my head, it comes across in my body language and voice, and thus I am abused. The false self takes pleasure in this, I the true self is like a curious oddity to her, being a sentient being who can feel. When I run from external abuse, the false self then (still holding the true self by the collar.. a true self with it's eyes tightly closed) begins screaming in the face of the true self, about how they deserve abuse, about how they are weak, impatient and miserable. Now and then the true self awakens in an absolute murderous rage. It attacks the false self which then plays the victim and gaslights the true self "oh you're attacking me! you're hurting me!" it summons.. something and I feel sleepy, I feel drowsy. At this point I usually lie down and try to sleep but it is hard and I just end up lethargic. like something is sucking the lifeforce out of me. I remember this is the same pattern I went through growing up. From toddlerhood onward my mother would parade me in front of others while mocking me "oh he hasn't learnt to do x yet, oh he's shy etc. etc." always something negative and humiliating (others saw this and none spoke up. Thanks a lot). When home she would vent onto me about how I didn't know how to interact, how I was lazy, stupid and miserable. Eventually this would go on long enough that I would feel absolute rage. This woman would NOT leave me alone. I longed for absolute isolation. I was like a show dog. Humiliated constantly in front of others. Having my public reputation destroyed again and again, then abused in private too (this would also be an argument for the days of hard work in the fields, less time for sick people to abuse their kids, but that's another issue). I remember desperately wanting her to disappear, just so some aspect of me could grow normally without her interference. So some aspect of me would not be shamed as it grew forth. When I had these rages however, she would play the victim. She would cry and say I was hurting her, and at this point my dad would enter the scene. I remember being around 6-7 and being chased down the stairs and choked until I lost consciousness. When I woke up I felt relieved to be alive, but also sad that this was now my pattern. To be publicaly and privately humiliated, to have no respite from it. until feelings of murderous rage welled up, but which would find no way of being expressed. It's like they were choked out of existence. All of this happened as each of my developmental stages was inevitably intercepted and stymied. Mistrust, shame, guilt, inferiority and confusion were inevitable, with the narrative being that I was responsible for these mindsets. A plant cannot grow if the leaves are constantly being touched and interfered with. Knowing that my father, in essence the 'final say' of my childhood would be willing to kill me for interrupting the idea that my mother was doing the 'right thing'. My world became lethargy. This is why the false self is overwhelming for me, and is a prison I have yet to escape from. It was death or accept the abuse and humiliation of a sadist.

Saved! This is exactly what I needed to read today. I've been walking around with this nauseous boredom all day. Trying to outrun it. It's a feeling that I've lived with for as long as I can remember. I'm going to take a moment to explore it instead.

I have a couple of thoughts a) You are in the top 1% of earners and you don't donate? Maybe you have a problem with reciprocity to those who have provided you value? Adult relationships are voluntary no matter how much we try to hide that fact, so it might be worth getting in that habit. b) When you were poor, you judged yourself as inferior for a relationship So does it not logically follow that now you are rich, you see yourself as superior? It would seem this mindset would inevitably lead you to resent any woman's 'inferiority' compared to you. Catch 22 huh? A part of you wants connection, but at the moment you only see superiority/inferiority, Dominance/Submission.

Being judgemental is extremely important. 'Too judgemental' means nothing in and of itself, you can only be too judgemental if you are making the wrong judgements. I say this because the most important aspect of finding real friends is the ability to vet and discard people. It's important to let trust grow slowly, not to to idealize, to see others as they are and not as you would like them to be. I have heard stories (although rare) of people who have got others into FDR and they have taken it as seriously as they do. The pursuit of greatness in virtue is something people turn away from from at an early age. In terms of practical advice. Are you in education? If so, perhaps look for the outliers who are challenging the professors, or even just silently seething in disgust. They may instinctually sense something is wrong with the world and you can help them put a finger on it. However avoid zealots or people who cling too tightly to labels and communities as if those define them entirely (i.e. hardcore vegans, atheists, libertarians etc) it's doubtful you will be able to have open and honest conversation if they have already made their mind up about everything.