Andrew31

I really wanted to make a good response, but I had things to do and I'm very tired for a good post. I wander if the need to make a whole post to explain myself makes you guys feel like a bomb that I'm trying to defuse, not risking you thinking negative of me.

@MMX2010 By coming from a different world I elegantly tried to tell you, for me you're a manipulative PUA who's arguments for inner games can't possibly contribute to this topic. You just value different ways and different kind of relationship to the other sex and to the self(I don't think people who I 'judge' should take my opinion too serousely). I have the thought in my head - "this guy grabbed my post of honesty and kindness and tries to use it against me. He also provokes me by saying I'm not conveing this and that". I've read some stupid master DJ Fingers and Mystery method along with a whole bunch of guys at youtube. @SeriousSusana By discussing believes, I had in mind philosophy chat not in that thread. I've seen narcissistic, entitled, ego maniac, hypocritical for witch I have some patterns in mind. I'll be looking mostly when she talks about things, how is she seeing them. Does she have empathy for herself as a child. Does she have empathy and is she careful when talking about other people. Can she be morally and philosophically challenged? Can she take criticism? Is she open and honest? Will she be interested in my story? I've been rejected quite a few dosens of times, how concerned will she be knowing that I'm in the situation of being wounded the same way again? Does she have carrier plans, if only her father works, how does she sees it? If we talk about her friends being scumbaggy, to what extend she normalises it? If she's dysfunctional, but in some foggy way and is not very interested in knowing exactly how - no. If we are together and I will make nice sandwiches but she goes to her friends and family for shit sandwiches also, I'll tell her I'm losing interest. As Stef said good people ignite when shown the truth, average people fog and attack it. Dysfunctional people are defensive in inconfident with honesty. They see their inner world as a dirty secret or something and don't suspect it can be of great value to someone. Has she taken to heart the bullshit of society? Is she empathetic towards children is schools and kindergarden? Is she ragefufl toward criminals in jails? Does she blame computer games and guns for violence?

@MMX2010 I'd like to give you the respect of answering, but in my view, you are bringing arguments coming from a different world. It's like getting into a car shop and advising the technicians how to turn a car they are fixing in to a boat the way I see it.

Thank you for all the responses you did. First off I think I'm targeting only unicorns to some degree. @J. D. Stembal I'm sorry you were trough this sh*t man. I can't imagine it not being painful. With I'll become interested I wanted to express motivation. I imagine being honest about why I'm there-to find a girlfriend. As a working man(and lazy), I don't feel like spending my Saturday for some doodles. I'd imagine that a woman good for me would accept the truth about me and wouldn't be bothered by me not being too excited about the hobby thing. @SeriousSusana I've read and listened a lot. I'm not scanning to find a borken person for a codependend high of illusions. I know how to stay away from women like my mother, step mother and the girlfriends of my friends of childhood. I'd gladly discuss believes with you. @MMX2010 "I only came here because I was bored; maybe you dance well-enough to fix that, but we'll see." - I see this as beginning with a challenge to the woman and ego/social status games. You're giving this advice to a man who's not good with social gatherings and pretending. Man I hate PUA. It sells something impossible - learn a few tricks and become good with women(yeah the whole luxury items industry can replaced with tehnuques). First off, those who are interested are proboboly naive and broken souls who've been already trough bitterness. Then that game thing - a man outmanipulating a woman would require many years of experince(in dysfunctional home maybe) and a good amount of talent. PUA are crows and vlutures. Zombies eating zombies by lying to them how to eat other zombies by lying. @Troubador, 1)I don't think there's much to dial back. Dysfunctional and healthy, good and bad people are having relationships in their young years left and right and I didn't get this potentially quite pleasurable and valuable experience. As a result when I talk about relationships, to a large degree I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm loosing the possibility of getting a woman in her young and fertile years and still be at my mental deveopment age, se we can be somewhat egalitarian. Will I act to change that like crazy or stay passive and wait for chance is a different story. I feel that's the objective state of the things. 2)Sorry for being insulting but for a man with standards, it's very difficult to find friends, as Stef has found also. As for the cool experiences, what value do they bring me? One cool experience will keep me smiling during one date? Or will keep me from being depressed? Or will make me interesting to a woman who would otherwise not be that interested? Sorry again for sounding extra critical, but that is similar to what I've read in the PUA literature. 3)I suppose I can either be interested and want to know more about the person or not be. Isn't this sitting back/going with the flow/Zen - pretending to not care about something about witch I care? 4)The thing that bothers me about this "dance of intimacy" is that the actual state of things is not being admitted. I'd imagine my unicorn not having to dance, to want to know more about me. All the train wrecks around me are that way - the actual communication is non verbal. The truth is behind mists. "interpersonal, creative and communication skills"? The way I'd imagine a good wife, is a women who'd be interested in a good dad. You don't have to have those to be a good dad. It sounds like sugarcoating yourself. 5)Well thanks, I also feel that way, but only about my value towards very small amounts of women. For most I'm painful. My step mother says I'm like a stuck record for not giving up on principles and accepting new age crap.

Those two said they are taken. At univeristy I took about 15 phones and got 5 dates, two of witch were girls from a sect disguised as American English club(I'm in eastern Europe). What I try to do now is I'd say PUA without manipulation. If she can't handle the truth, she's probably not a unicorn anyway. As for hobbies, I'll become interested in what I have to. Thanks for the idea SeriousSusana, I'm now feeling that such meetings can be with 80% dating utility, with the women not having to explicitly admit they are trying to find a man and not feeling obliged to talk to a men they don't like and explain themselves why they don't like him.

Hello everyone. I'm 24 and I want to move my ass and find a girlfriend because I've never had one. There's some bitterness in me, when Stef talks about dating with people near my age. I guess I'll never know what it is someone to date you only because spending time with you is interesting. At my age a girl's time is a precious investment, with a desired outcome, not just memories. I'd rate myself I'm 8 or at least 7. In my dark past I've tried PUA and the idea of getting a girl without manipulation was has given me only bitterness and anxiety. Now I consider myself pretty healthy but normal healthy people have good people around them. They know/are known by healthy girls. I don't want the girls from the circles of the people that were around me. I recently I talked to a good and healthy looking cashier at the mall and a girl at the park. I'm feeling may be it's too awkarad to be effective. Stef suggests clubs, but I'd feel awkward signing to a club and bailing on the second time when I've talked to the two out of 5 women near my age. I know the topic is tough, but I'd like to hear if you have any thoughts on the subject.