Jaeger

As far as my personal beliefs I'm drawn to Mormonism by more than just a gut feeling. Even If I come to the conclusion that God does not exist I will still want to keep going to church. I have friends there so there is the social aspect. I actually like singing hymns talking about gospel subjects even if I question some of them. Perhaps this desire is all genetic and I'm just a moth drawn to a flame, I don't know but I'm willing to find out. I was pointing out to Bushrat that Stefan's arguments about the parasitical class mirrors Mormon doctrine on priestcraft. I actually agree with Stefan on this subject. I'm more than willing to do that. I'll even throw in a Mormon or two I just realized my response to Bushrat would not make sense to a non-Mormon. Priestcraft is preaching for money, fame, and without authority from God. It is consider a big sin in Mormonism. The priesthood in Mormonism is held by every man in the church and we believe it to be the authority to act in God's name but that it doesn't give you the right to rule over others or to be paid for any priesthood service.

Hi Bushrat. I would consider what Stefan was talking about the parasite class or priest class as people practicing priestcraft as defined in the Book of Mormon. For an example of Priestcraft see Alma 1:2-6 While those who hold the priesthood are to provide for themselves with honest work and not be paid for teaching the word of God. See Alma 1:26-27 That is the question everyone asks, even us believers. To be honest I don't know. I cant prove empirically if God exists, I only have my gut feeling and that's not any proof. I believe these are questions every man must find out for himself. Now if a man tells you he is God's priest and wants you to pay him money in order to hear his word then run.

How much of this was just misunderstanding of the Punk movement by the media. Bands like Crass totally advocated peace and anarchy. Sure we had our violence like slam dancing but that was voluntary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIdcDL64KCE

In Mormonism God was once a man and men are Gods in embryo.

omg I remember that book. Of course I was a kid in the seventies. I remember it was my favorite book when I was 4 or 5. I was really into tigers then.

I remember my dad and mom reading this to me as well as the grasshopper and the ant.

I find it to be normal at least with my eight kids. I find they complain about being bored but left to their own devices they will think of something to do and with in 15 minutes or so they have created their own new game. I think the more a kid learns how to free play the less times they are bored. Since we started unschooling the boredom has greatly diminished. I suspect a lot of it is because schools don't teach free thinking so the children are conditioned to wait for instructions from an adult. As far as them being frustrated and irritable I think that is normal too. My 5 year old son is learning how to ride his bike and will get very frustrated after falling down over and over. He will stomp off and say "I will never ride a bike again". Sure enough 15 minutes latter he's at it again. I think it is healthy for a kid to express his/her displeasure. They need to get it off their chest, just like adults do, even if it is just a little thing.

I remember hearing this in elementary school or a similar one "I will be your best friend if you..." To me it is the stick and the carrot mentality to get what you want. I don't understand how a mother or a day care worker would say such things to a child. Why can't we as adults just practice what we preach. You know say "Please" and "Thank You". I find my kids respond a lot better if they feel they have free choice.

Fort Worth. I have attended a couple meet-ups with Voluntaryist of Dallas. They say that get about 40% of there membership from FDR listeners. I took my two oldest Kids with me and they had fun too. Worth the hour drive for me though I cant always make it. http://www.meetup.com/VoluntaryDallas/

Hearing seems to be the first sense at about 16 weeks, pain at 19 weeks, smell at 20 weeks and memory at 22-23 weeks. I would argue that consciousness would start with memory. I find the practice of abortion repugnant. Especially when European and American culture is in decline because no one wants to have babies. So instead of the almost 60 million people that could be alive and working in the US who were aborted since 1973, we open our borders to mass migration of people of lower IQ cultures who do not assimilate. I can't understand the infanticide. How can anyone claim to be a peaceful parent then kill their own offspring, sentient or not? Where is the parenting instinct? Out of the 308,390 abortions this year so far in the US only 2990 were do to rape or incest. 14,800 were to fetuses older than 16 weeks gestation. Sorry for the rant just a sore subject for me. http://www.numberofabortions.com/

At what level of consciousness does it become morally wrong to kill another human being? Who gets to decide what that level is? I assume in a free society it will be the community you live in. If you live in a community of pro-lifers expect to be ostracized. If you live in a pro-choice community I imagine there will be no issue. I did find this study interesting about when consciousness forms. http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v65/n3/full/pr200950a.html

Yes my son would be very interested.

Yes I noticed she has been on quite a few times. I really like what she has to offer. I'm actually considering contacting her for consultations. I love how she combines it with peaceful parenting. I feel like I'm so far behind the 8 ball on parenting. I wished I jumped on the unschooling from the beginning. I cant turn back time so all I can do is rectify what I'm doing wrong and pay restitution to any of my kids that I have harmed in any way as a parent, and keep moving forward in my pursuit of self knowledge. I have a feeling peaceful parenting will be much easier after that. I agree Mathew has some of the best and most enlightening posts. As do you .

Sarah, I'm so sorry about the abusive childhood. I can only imagine the turmoil that was caused by leaving your church and family. I'm glad to hear that you and your husband have survived the fallout. I can only imagine that it has made you stronger as a couple and as parents. I haven't heard of Dana Martin so I googled her name with unschooling. I did see a Dayna Martin come up. Is this who you meant? She seems very interesting. An anarchist too. I started listening to Stefan a little less than a year ago. I happened upon him while researching anarcho-capitalism. The peaceful parenting concept he promoted just resonated with me so I wanted to learn more. I'm just now starting on my journey of gaining self-knowledge and learning more about philosophy.

yep just found this. I retract my statement "While it is true an uncircumcised baby boy has a higher risk of getting a UTI than a circumcised baby boy" http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/

I also found this. This post may actually post first since my other post is awaiting approval. http://www.uptodate.com/contents/urinary-tract-infections-in-children-beyond-the-basics While it is true an uncircumcised baby boy has a higher risk of getting a UTI than a circumcised baby boy, they never actually give you the odds of actually getting one. All they can do is say that most will not get it. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it is a very low chance.

The hospitals and doctors who promote circumcision do not tell us the whole story. While they tell you that an uncircumcised man has a greater chance of penile cancer or higher risk of urinary track infection. They never tell you the actual odds of getting these conditions. Here is the statistic from provided link on penile cancer. http://www.cancer.org/cancer/penilecancer/detailedguide/penile-cancer-key-statistics By comparison the odds of dying in a car accident during your lifetime is 1 in 470 http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/mortality-risk Now what is the odd of a circumcised man having decreases penile sensitivity. Oh that would be 1 in 1. I couldn't find any actual number on the chance of a man getting a urinary tract infection, but found this a good read. Age is the number one factor of getting one. http://www.everydayhealth.com/urinary-tract-infections/can-men-get-urinary-tract-infections.aspx I'll take my chances on not circumcising my boys.

Frederick, Thank you so much for all you have contributed . I am flattered that you think that whats going on with me would make a good call in show. I will definitely think about it. I'm just in awe about the depth of knowledge here on this forum. I feel like someone has turned the light on and now I can see things more clearly. as a result I have learned the following and I'm sure its just the beginning. 1. A free society will only come after peaceful parenting. When I first heard this concept from Stefan, I just knew it was true. That is when I knew I have to become a peaceful parent so that my kids will become peaceful parents and so on down through the generations. To the point there is no need for the state. 2. Peaceful parenting can only fully implemented after one has gain self knowledge. Your comment "You have young children whos life-long happiness depends on your mental health!" Is so right on. When my father told me that I needed to be a better father than him, I thought it was good fatherly advice, now I see it for what it is, regret. On my deathbed I don't want to feel compelled to tell my kids they need to be better parents. I don't want any regrets.

Me and my brother were circumcised my dad was not. Unfortunately my parents chose the to follow the status quo when asked at our births. I'm sure without any thought about it. If my firstborn wasn't born three months premature most likely we would have followed the status quo and had him circumcised. luckily for him I was so shocked that two days after he was ripped out of his mothers womb by emergency c-section they wanted to do it, even though he was only 2 lb and 3 oz. I remember I looking at my wife and she at me and we said hell no. He's already fighting for his life and to add one more trauma would just be cruel. After him we had 4 girls in a row so we didn't face it again until my second son was born. By then we already decided we wouldn't circumcise, so we also didn't circumcise our third and last son. I would think their would be far more of a downside to being circumcised than not. http://www.circumcision.org/studies.htm

Hi Sarah, Thank you so much for replying. I'm really happy to hear you are unschooling. I am slowly realizing that kids learn at their own pace and in their own way. I was at first worried about some of their math skills but have come to the realization its not right for me to expect my right brained kids to be left brained. My son who is 16 doesn't really enjoy math but loves writing and drawing and comes up with some of the most amazing designs of things he would want to build in the future. His 11 year old sister is exactly the same way and when they get together they will write stories then illustrate them. My 14 year old daughter loves math she will do 4 lessons a day. She finished one year course in 6 months and is now working on the next year. She aspires to learn medicine and will watch courses on anatomy. She draws diagrams of lungs, heart and other organs. You are correct about them finding passion in what they learning. Their desire to learn is contagious in fact it was one of the contributing factors that made me want to learn more about anarchism/libertarianism. That led me to FDR that lead me to peaceful parenting and now self knowledge. You are correct about the bond that is formed not just with us as parents but as siblings also. They all play together regardless of age. My 16 year old son will make up games for his 2 and 4 year old brothers. I'm amazed at the patience he has with his siblings. In public school they force kids into classes with kids their same age so they never learn how to associate and play with kids of different ages. Once we pulled all our kids out of school a couple of years ago and the bickering in our home decreased tremendously. We actually pulled my son out 4 years ago but the 3 oldest girls we kept in public school. Myself being a product of public school I had to unschool myself in this process. Luckily my wife and mother-in -law have been a big help in bringing me around. I was diagnose with Meniere's disease about 8 years ago so have been working from home most of those 8 years. My wife is a stay at home mom so my kids have been lucky to have both of us home during the day. Why I hate my disability, and wouldn't wish it on anybody, I would not trade the last couple of years at home with my kids. I also want to add as I have shown interest in their dreams and desires they have reciprocated with a desire to learn what I'm interested in. For example my 16 and 14 year wanted to go with me to a meet-up with Voluntaryists of Dallas. They learned more about anarcho-capitalism and even bitcoin. The next day my son researched bitcoin and wrote a paper on it, so I was really stoked. It was an hour drive each way to the meet-up so the conversation was just outstanding and I really think we created a great bond. For those who are interested my family it consist as follows: Me 45 Work from home dad. I code for a living mainly working with back-end interfaces. wife 38 Stay at home mom. son 16 Loves minecraft, reading, writing and art. Wants to be an inventor. Also wants to do his own you tube show. daughter 14 Loves ferrets, math, anatomy , science in general, singing and running. daughter 11 Loves foxes ( wants to live in a state that allows them as pets), ferrets, reading, writing and art. she wants to be a writer. ​daughter 9 Loves animals in general, wants to be a veterinarian when she grows up. she is very tender-hearted and will consul who ever is sad or hurt. daughter 7 Very artistic. She made a full size doll house out of copy paper staples and tape. she also loves foxes and ferrets. son 4 Loves puzzles and already wants to learn how to read and count. He will probably be like me and his 14 year old sister and be very left brain. son 2 He loves outdoors and throwing balls. Most like his mom especially like some of his uncles (Wife's brothers). He will probably be the athlete in the family. daughter 5 mo. Loves her daddy, definitely a daddy's girl.

Wow where to begin. Lets start with my mother. Frederick you are absolutely correct I did leave out much about my mother and it is almost like you said "My inner mother didn't want me to tell the truth." So much so when I proof read my statement about lectures from my dad I noticed that used the plural "they" but then changed it to "him". When I wrote: In my teenage years punishment came in the form of what I called "Lectures". These usually my dad sitting down with me and him trying to convince me why such and such action was a bad idea. It was originally written like this: In my teenage years punishment came in the form of what I called "Lectures". These usually my dad sitting down with me and they trying to convince me why such and such action was a bad idea. I guess at the time I edited it, I was thinking it was for grammatical reasons. If that was the case and I didn't have an inner mom I probably would have edited as thus: In my teenage years punishment came in the form of what I called "Lectures". These usually my dad and mom sitting down with me and they trying to convince me why such and such action was a bad idea. The more I think about it, I wasn't resentful towards my dad because of these "lectures", but the fact he let my mom be there for them. She would usually say something that would throw me in a rage. Things like "You are better than this", " remember who you are", or "we raised you better". Latter when I decided to reach out to my dad about my addictions the conversations with him were one on one. He must have known at that point that bringing my mom into the equation would have been a bad idea. As an adult I always felt I could go to my dad for advice, but I never felt that way with my mom. I used to think my mom didn't spank because of the abuse she suffered as a child, but now I'm not so sure. I'm now beginning to think it was she didn't spank us when we were younger than eight years old. In the Mormon faith children are not born in sin and are considered innocent and incapable of any sin until they reach the age of accountability, which is eight years old. The first time I was spanked it was because me and my sister who was 7 at the time and I was 9 left some puppies that our dog had in the inner fence where the pool was. That night a couple of the puppies fell into the pool and drowned. I got a spanking but my sister didn't, when I asked why, my mom said it was because my sister hadn't reached the age of accountability. I know this wasn't passed down from her parents because my grandparents would spank us if we acted up at their house when they watched us. The second time I was spanked it was because I poked holes into the wicker of the chairs that went with the formal dining table. I was probably about 10 then. My mom was only 4' 11" and probably at the time weighed 100 lbs max so by the time I was 12 or 13 I was as big as her or bigger. In addition to the spankings I do remember her pulling my hair at the back of my neck to make me comply to her wishes when we were at Dodgers stadium. I was running up ahead and she wanted us to stay together. I was probably about 12 or 13 then. Over all when I was 8 -12 I was a fairly good kid and rarely got in trouble. That may explain why so few spankings. My sister on the other hand, butted heads with my mom so I do remember her getting spankings. I do not remember her ever spanking my older brother who is 3 years older than me. Then again he was her pride and joy and could do no wrong. Meow meow meow. Wow now that I'm choosing to not listen to my inner mom I'm remembering all kinds of stuff. Man I have a lot of resentment towards my mom and brother. He was like my mom's enforcer. If he felt I disrespected my mom he would come downstairs to my room and start a fight with me. Even though he was three years older than me by the time I was 14, I was 2 inches taller than him but he probably out weighed me by 10-20 lbs. Over all I say we were pretty evenly matched. If I could keep him off me I usually ended up winning or at least a draw, however if he ever got me in some kind of hold then the fight was over. I know my mom heard these fights as we were pretty vocal. They didn't happen usually when my dad was home if we had a fight when he was home he would break it up. I don't know if my dad really knew how much me and my brother fought. I doubt my mom told him as my brother was her little champion willing to come to her rescue. This post was not what I originally intended. I was going respond to Frederick and Matthew but rather ended up mainly reflecting on my childhood. I have reached a level of feelings that I have repressed for over 25 years. I think at this point I should take Frederick's advice and get therapy. I started this post at about 11 pm and it is now 2:30 am so I have been doing more thinking/feeling than writing. I'm not trying to run from this I just not sure how to put it all in to words. Matthew, your post ties in so well with Frederick's. Inner mom/ Inner critic.You expanded on it so beautifully. neeeel, dsayers, thanks for the push back as well, I really needed it.

Fred Black Fox and Matthew, Thank you so much for your replies. I just want you to know I did read them and do plan on replying. I'm in the middle of a project for work and I have a deadline this Friday. I want to do your replies justice but will not have the time until this Saturday. For some reason when writing reply's in this post it takes me forever just to write one paragraph. I don't know if it me trying to emotionally distance myself from this topic or what. Fred, I think you nailed it. The more I think about my mother the more I'm convinced she is the source of my rage. Matthew, there was three kids in my family and I was smack in the middle of them, My parents also had custody of one of my cousins for about 6 or 7 years. I appreciated your comments about the inner critic. Until Saturday Farewell.

It doesn't add up to me either. That is the purpose of this post. Could it be this "Preacher Kid" syndrome that I linked above? Could it be genetics there are studies showing that some people are predisposed to addiction. http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/is-addiction-a-disease.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1747704/pdf/v012p00227.pdf https://ncadd.org/about-addiction/family-history-and-genetics I didn't all of a sudden change on my 18th birthday. My junior year in high school I got 5 Fs and in A on my report card. My dad sat me down and told me about a test that I could take called the California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE). It is similar to the GED but is for minors. I always got A's on my tests so I knew the material but would never do the daily assignments which were 60% of the grade. I went ahead and took the test and instead of going to high school I went to the local Junior college the next semester. Once I started going there I didn't have the desire to want to party. That was when I started reaching out to my dad for help and letting him know the full extent of my addiction. Especially my use of LSD. His suggestion was that I needed to get away from the friends who were holding me back. He found a program that would send me to Hawaii to work in the pineapple fields for Maui Pineapple company. They provided room and board so the check I got was put in savings which I wasn't allowed touch while I was in the program. I worked there a year in which time I was able to clean myself up. I turned 18 while I was there in Hawaii. I have been clean ever since. I wish we could all sit in a big room and have a group discussion. I feel I could explain myself verbally better that in writing. I want to make it clear I'm not suffering from addiction now. I'm just curious as to what lead me to it in the first place in my teenage years. Maybe it was a combination of things like feeling trap in a public school that didn't fit my needs, so a growing pressure to be that good kid. That led to me trying a cigarette that kicked in the gene the predispose me to become addicted. Time-outs from my parents that made me want to avoid punishment even though they changed to talks instead. Well, My daughter wants me to teach her how to ride a bike so I better go help her. Hopefully I will be a better parent and she will not have to deal with these kinds of questions. Again thanks for all your input.

Wow that explains it almost exactly. I did feel like it was something to endure and I didn't want to hear it. Only thing is I don't think it was lack of trust. I knew he had my best interest at heart. I think it was because I knew my actions were wrong but didn't want to hear it. I was doing more than just smoking I was also drinking and doing drugs ( Pot and LSD). Perhaps I was in addict mode? The more I think about it I was ashamed of my actions and couldn't stand the pain I was causing them (my parents). From the age of 18 on I cherished these talks with my dad. He was my go to person for advice. I ran everything by him. He was a great mentor. It was only during my teenage years that I disliked these talks. Probably because I didn't want to hear the truth. Wow I have a lot of emotions built up right now the main on being regret for how I treated my parents. I would yell at them, cuss them, storm out on them. They always would take my outburst in stride and never lashed back. Couple that come to mind are: They let me hitchhike up to Berkeley California from Southern California for a Grateful Dead Concert when I was 17. They let me go to parties. They didn't approve of me doing these things and they told me so but I did them anyways. I know I would never let my son who will be 17 in July do this. Of course I say that but short of using force there is really nothing I can do if he really wants to go. Maybe my parents knew that. Some lessons we just have to learn for ourselves. The person that comes to mind was my friend Scott who always called me a nerd and was constantly pointing out what I could or couldn't do as a Mormon. He was not Mormon. I have heard Stefan mention something about time-outs as well. I would be interested in any studies on this. My Mom had 3 parenting books by a Doctor Peck all from the 60's. I remember thumbing through them but don't remember if they said anything about time-outs. I'm sure that is where she got the concept but I'll probably need to research that. The Inner-critic, boy do I have one. Sending me to public school was probably the worse abuse which could be a all new post in of itself.. I did chose my friends so I will take responsibility for any abuse I received by them. Thanks for your response everyone. I really appreciate it It has been a real eye opener for me.

Hi Fred, Sorry if I've caused you any discomfort . It was not my intention. I guess I'm trying to figure out why I felt the need to rebel as a teenager when my home life was peaceful. Why was I drawn to the bad crowd? If I look only at my home life it makes no sense. The only thing that makes sense to me is that it was an external force that made me want to rebel. Was I rebelling against my church? I'm open to any insight from the group on why I would be that way. Which is the real reason for posting. My ace score is 0 (1 if you want to count the spanking). I am not in therapy. I did take some marriage counseling about 8 years ago. I believe my mom had therapy before she met my dad. I don't believe my dad had any therapy. Is this something worth seeing a therapist for? Like I said it seams pretty trivial but it is something keeping awake at night and wanting to post about it at 2:30 in the morning. Maybe I should have titled this post "Am I a Preacher's Kid?". Not sure if there is a way to edit it.