Jaeger

Would consequence be a better word? If so let's use that one.

Even with major violation of the NAP such as rape and murder there there would need to be some kind of contract specifying what the punishment would be, how it will be enforced. Otherwise there would be no law just mob rule. Lynchings and personal vendetta would be how things are enforced minus any contract or law.

After chatting with Rainbow Jamz in the chat room Saturday I just couldn't stop thinking about my childhood especially my teenage years. During the course of our conversation I brought up that there was a time I wished that my parents had punished me physically instead of trying to reason with me. In which he replied that he didn't understand how someone raised by peaceful parents would ever want to be punished physically. That statement hit me like a ton of bricks and really got me thinking. What sane person would ever want to get hit. The answer I gave him was as a teenager my number one fear was being labeled a goody goody and that if I was punished it would be the ultimate proof that I was not a goody goody. However I alluded to but didn't go in to details on why I felt that way. My father was a lay minister in the LDS (Mormon) church. The church has no paid clergy so all church functions are done through the members. My dad was called as a High Counselor as well as to the Bishopric through out my youth. These callings are considered by the general membership as prestigious and that the men who hold these callings are extremely righteous. As a result I felt a great pressure from the general membership as well as my non-members friends that I needed to be perfect. I remember going to a birthday party of one of my friends and his mom poring me a pepsi and my friend speaking up saying He can't have that he is a Mormon. Lets just say by the time I was thirteen, I was ready for a new image. My mom and dad for the most part were peaceful parents. I do remember getting spanked once or twice by my mom and my dad yelling at us once. To my dads credit he was passing a kidney stone at the time and after coming home from the hospital he apologized profusely. So I can't say they were 100% perfect. For the most part punishment came in the form of time outs while I was young. In my teenage years punishment came in the form of what I called "Lectures". These usually my dad sitting down with me and him trying to convince me why such and such action was a bad idea. For example I started smoking when I was thirteen. When they found out my dad would bring out a study and anti-smoking literature he got from the high school he worked at. These lectures could last hours sometimes and I remember throwing my hands up in the air and saying "why can't you just spank me and get it over with". Hindsight I'm glad they never did. One thing I will always be grateful to my mom and dad for is that they never threw religion in my face. I stopped going to church most of my teenage years. They never tried to force me to go but let it be my choice. I wish I could say that all the members of my church were that way. I remember smoking in the smoking section in high school one day and one of the teachers who was a member of my church came up to me and grabbed me by the arm and started talking to me sternly on how I was a bad example and as a "Latter day Saint", I should be better. I use to tell people I felt like the preacher's kid. Looking it up I guess I was. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preacher%27s_kid "Children of clergy often experience pressure due to the expectations placed on them,[1][2][3][4] and may develop feelings of isolation and inner conflict as a result.[5] Parental workload (which, by definition, includes working on the weekend) may also be a source of stress.[4] Some writers suggest that there is a "preacher's kid syndrome", in which children of clergy reject religion and the church.[6] Such rebellious children of the clergy are a stock figure in the Southern literature of the United States,[7]and this view is seen as a stereotype.[8] One literary example occurs in Eugene O'Neill's play "The Iceman Cometh" when the traveling salesman Hickey describes his life: "You see, even as a kid I was always restless. I had to keep on the go. You’ve heard the old saying, “Ministers’ sons are sons of guns.” Well, that was me, and then some."" P.S. I really had a hard time writing this. I fact I kind of feel guilty. Being the son of a "preacher" who loved me unconditional as his son seems like pretty trivial stuff. Having pressure from the congregation to be a good boy seems like nothing compared to some of the crap you guys (and gals) had to dig through. I could never imagine a life with an ACE score of 6 or 7. In fact what do I say to someone like that. I'm often at a loss of words and my heart just ache in compassion for all of you. I wish I could just hug you and say there is good in the world. There are people who love and will love you unconditionally. I'm getting into peaceful parenting because my dad challenged me to be a better parent than him shortly before he died in 2008. Most of you are getting into peaceful parenting because you been through the most horrible of family lives and want something better for your children. You are the real heroes in my opinion. I am forever grateful for my mom for taking that first step in breaking the cycle of violence. Other than a few relapses she kept her promise to not raise me and my siblings the way she was. She was abused as a child with spanking and yelling. There were many times I felt my parents were to permissive, and perhaps they were but I will take that over being abused.

What rule? He would have had to already enter some sort of contract with the community to not to play any music loudly after a certain time in order for there to be a rule in the first place. Absent such contract, there is no rule, so there is nothing to enforce. If there is a contract then it would state how the rule would be enforced (private security, neighborhood watch, ect ...).

Justin, First off congratulations on the up coming wedding. I'm so pleased to hear that you are going to be peaceful parents. As far as your war-like friends perhaps telling them that your intentions is not to attack or debate their parenting styles but out of genuine concern for them and their children you would like to show them a better way. Perhaps it will become easier once you are married and have children of your own to be able to convince other parents. Unfortunately to many couples will not take advice from a single person on parenting no matter how good the data is. A matter of pride I guess.

AccuTron, I have used Google Earth to visit my childhood homes. It was quite surprising to see the change to one of the houses as it now has a freeway behind it and the front yard looks like it was converted into a parking lot. I'm only guessing that the place is now a business. That was the house I lived in from 1972-1979 as small child. So I was before the internet too. I'm so sorry to hear that you suffered trauma as a youth. I couldn't imagine what it must have been like.

Nick, I wish I had some great fatherly advice for you. I wish I could tell you I did some great and marvelous thing to attract my wife. I might not be able to speak for all married men whose spouses are virtuous women, but for me it was like winning the lottery. All I did was get up the courage to ask her out and then the rest was history. In reality she picked me. The only way to get dating experience is by dating. Only date the nice girls. These are the girls that thebride440 mentions above. You find them in the places of culture. Virtuous women tend to be more religious and conservative so don't expect work on your sexual experience at the same time as your dating experience, they prefer to wait until marriage for that. They want you to get the experience with them. My wife was a virgin when I married her she wouldn't even let me french kiss her until after we were married. I could only peck her on the lips after we were engaged. My past sexual experiences in many ways were a hindrance to our marriage rather than a benefit. We worked through it and now after 18 years of marriage our sex life is better than ever. My best advice is when dating and you get a chance to visit her folks, watch how things are done in their home. Is it a peaceful home? Is there fighting or bickering? Does she get along with her family? You want to make sure she comes from as stable a home as possible. She will become the future mother of your children so make sure she will get good advice from you future mother in law. That's my next advice. Make sure you like your future mother in law and that she also is a virtuous woman. Not that disputes won't happen but that the disputes will be handled in a peaceful manner. Rachelle and csekavec, I'm very interested in your homeschooling experiences please post them in my post on homeschooling under peaceful parenting. https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/46299-homeschooling/

Hi, Stan Sorry too hear about the lack of sleep. Here is a study on formula/ C-section can disrupt gut bacteria. Obviously not much help if your wife can not breast feed right now. http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20130211/c-section-formula-may-disrupt-good-gut-bacteria-in-babies I'm not real familiar with formulas but have you tried switching brands or finding one that isn't so hard on the stomach? I did find a couple of sites that gives you options of home made holistic formula maybe that might be easier to digest than store brands. http://holisticsquid.com/the-best-formula-for-your-baby/ http://wellnessmama.com/53999/organic-baby-formula-options/

I'm at a lost of words. I just can't imagine such abuse. A new born baby really? What is she thinking. Worse yet what is the idiot filming her think? Where was his anger?

I agree with csekavec. Let them know you are there to have fun and to be able to talk in your native tongue but you not really interested in the religion. Most likely the majority of them are there for the same reason. If it does turn out they just want to convert you then walk away.

I found this very old article in the Millennial Star dated 1886. It talks about the importance of self government and how that is really the only true government there is. https://books.google.com/books?id=RNQ_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA552&lpg=PA552&dq=Prophet+Joseph+Smith:+%E2%80%9CI+teach+them+correct+principles+and+they+govern+themselves.%E2%80%9D&source=bl&ots=XS8KOOttD3&sig=2eu253DCkuvV_7P668ccVR0etPQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjg3K_K75HLAhUI7SYKHRWwCg04ChDoAQhFMAg#v=onepage&q=Prophet%20Joseph%20Smith%3A%20%E2%80%9CI%20teach%20them%20correct%20principles%20and%20they%20govern%20themselves.%E2%80%9D&f=false I also want to comment on Mormon view on the Bible, Book of Mormon and other religious text we use and how it pertains to authority from God. We do not believe that authority can come from any book but only from God himself. We call this authority the Priesthood. There being two priesthoods, the Melchizedek and Aaronic. We do not have a paid clergy so there isn't a special Priest class in our religion. Every man from age 12 up is given the priesthood. So every man is his own priest so to speak. As priesthood holders we are expected to earn our own living. Preaching for money is considered a very big sin in Mormonism. So in Mormonism the ideal society would be as follows: 1. Every man would be his own Priest (No priest class). 2. Every man would be his own sovereign (No earthly government). Teachings of Joseph Smith Leaders teach correct principles and help those they lead learn to govern themselves.John Taylor, the third President of the Church, reported:“Some years ago, in Nauvoo, a gentleman in my hearing, a member of the Legislature, asked Joseph Smith how it was that he was enabled to govern so many people, and to preserve such perfect order; remarking at the same time that it was impossible for them to do it anywhere else. Mr. Smith remarked that it was very easy to do that. ‘How?’ responded the gentleman; ‘to us it is very difficult.’ Mr. Smith replied, ‘I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.’”3 Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2011), 281–91

awt, I'm so glad to hear that you feel you are making progress with your wife. Me and my wife did therapy about 8 years ago and it really helped. I don't have any real advice other than just keep with it and over time your relationship will improve. The important thing is learning how to communicate and learning each others needs. One book that was beneficial to me was His Need Her Needs by Willard F. Harley, Jr. In a lot of ways your relation ship is like mine and my wife only she was the passive aggressive and I was the vocal one. Once I made the commitment to stop the yelling things improved dramatically in the home. I can't say things are always perfect but they are always improving. My wife also has made great changes and she tells me how she feels now. I sure hope that you and your wife have similar changes. I hope you and your wife the best of luck. You already made the first step together, keep with it and you lives will improve. Paul

Hi Bushrat. Thanks for the post. I too am a Mormon and have also noticed that many assume that our beliefs fall in line with Mainstream Christianity concerning God and Hell. In fact many of our beliefs would be down right heretical to most Christians. Example we believe God has a resurrected body of flesh and bones. Jesus Christ is God's biological Son not just another aspect of him. He also has a resurrected body of flesh and bones. That the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit who stands as a second witness to Jesus Christ. As a spirit he can talk directly to our spirit (heart) and give us inspiration. There are two places in the Mormon afterlife that can be considered Hell like. 1. Outer Darkness: This will be the final fate for Satan and his angels as well as what we call "Sons of Perdition". These are people who had a perfect knowledge of God and chose to follow Satan anyways. Cain from the Bible would be an example. He had a perfect knowledge of God even speaking to him face to face but still chose to kill his brother and "Loved Satan more than God". 2. Spirit Prison: This is a place where the spirits of the wicked go to after they die to await the Resurrection. We believe that the severity of ones punishment will be based on how they lived. In other words we don't believe if a man is a thief that his punishment would be the same as a murderer. We do not believe that it is a permanent place and if one did not have a chance to learn about the gospel in this life that they will have an opportunity to do so there. This is why us Mormons are big into genealogy as we believe if we do the temple work for our dead ancestors and that they accept the gospel that they can move from this spirit prison to paradise and be in full fellowship with the righteous there. As far as spanking the Church has been very outspoken against abuse of every kind including spanking. Unfortunately we have too many members of our church who still spank despite what the brethren say. Below is a link to a talk given by one of our prophets, Gordon B. Hinckley, on the subject. I also include an excerpt from the talk that I found most pleasing. My favorite was about the fishing rod. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1994/10/save-the-children?lang=eng "In terms of physical abuse, I have never accepted the principle of “spare the rod and spoil the child.” I will be forever grateful for a father who never laid a hand in anger upon his children. Somehow he had the wonderful talent to let them know what was expected of them and to give them encouragement in achieving it. I am persuaded that violent fathers produce violent sons. I am satisfied that such punishment in most instances does more damage than good. Children don’t need beating. They need love and encouragement. They need fathers to whom they can look with respect rather than fear. Above all, they need example. I recently read a biography of George H. Brimhall, who at one time served as president of Brigham Young University. Concerning him, someone said that he reared “his boys with a rod, but it [was] a fishing rod” (Raymond Brimhall Holbrook and Esther Hamilton Holbrook, TheTall Pine Tree: The Life and Work of George H. Brimhall, n.p., 1988, p. 62). That says it all."

I saw that too. Did that officer get buried? I agree LeVoy had his hand down when he was shot. I couldn't really see what he was grabbing for. It is safe to assume that he was armed. They did start shooting at the vehicle at about 9:53 lasting until around 10:47, I counted about 9 shots but was hard to see with the helicopter circling behind the trees. I couldn't see any provocation from the vehicle to justify that shooting. This is just a very sad situation and I wished cooler heads could have prevailed.

I'm really shaken up by this. Challice, One of the daughters of LaVoy, is friends with my wife. We attend church together so this has hit a little to close to home for me. When I get a chance to learn more directly from the family, I will let you all know. This is what I have gleamed so far which isn't much. - LaVoy had his hands up. - The family is not surprised he got out of the car. They believe his intentions was to work things out rationally. I really wished I had more. I will when I can.

I agree kids learn by example and being a good model for them is paramount. Thank you for reminding me about the importance of one on one time. Me and my wife seem to focus more on the younger ones. I do try to take each of my kids individually out to eat or to do something fun with them once a month. That time I never thought about as educational. You are so right the things we do everyday can be educational. I guess my problem I want to separate school time from the rest of the day. Most likely because that was how public school indoctrinated me. "Free range learning" may be a better term? Which is really probably just a form of free play. I think that is a wonderful Idea. There is a couple of nature trails not to far from where I live. One of them is shorter so would be ideal for the younger ones, while the longer one would be Ideal for the older ones. Wow. I think you just described my junior high and high school years. I remember back in the 80's in my high school 60% of a grade was based on home work. While I would get A's on the tests I would never do my homework so I ended up getting D's or F's. I also did well on the standard test that California required. My junior year, the last year I went to high school, I got 5 F's and an A. The A being in Art which was mainly done in class. I got the lazy word a lot from my teachers as well. My theory was if I already know the material why do I need to waste my time doing busy work. I went and and took the California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE) which is basically the GED that you can take as a minor in California so instead of staying in high school I was able to start at the local Junior College. The grades there were almost exclusively based on the tests and major projects so I didn't have to do a bunch of busy work. I think free choice is very important. That was my main turn-off about school was the lack of choice. You have given me a lot of things to think about and I sure appreciate it. Tomorrow is our weekly family meeting so I think I'll write down some of my thoughts and see what the kids think. Thank you so much for the kind words and the words of confidence. The feeling is mutual.

It was an early Saturday morning about eleven years ago. All where asleep in the house but us adults as we made passionate morning love. Then through the moans of my wife and my grunting we hear: "Mommy"? "Daddy"? "What are you doing"? To our horror standing next to the bed was our five year old son and and peeking behind him was his three year old sister. So thus began our very first talk about the birds and the bees. Trust me we were more traumatized than they were. Kids have an amazing ability to be were you least expect them, so odds are after you decide to have kids something similar to this will happen to you. I wish i could say there was one size fit all speech you can give, but some kids want the details and others are like "ewww that's gross". We convey that sex is special and it is how babies are made so should be only done with someone you are committed to be with the rest of your life and when you are an adult. I found when my wife was pregnant that was a good time to talk about the birds and the bees to the younger children. They want to know how the baby got in mommy's tummy. We even let them look at pictures of the fetuses at different stages of the pregnancy. I plan to have my teen age kids watch Stefan's video The Truth About Sex. I'll let them know the statistics so they can make informed choices. We are homeschooling them so that can be their sex ed course for the year. As far as teaching your kids about quality men and women. The best thing we can do is be a man or woman of quality, love your spouse, treat him or her with respect and understanding. Actions speak louder than words and kids learn by example. I think it is wonderful that you are thinking about this now, I wish I had before that one fateful morning. Luckily for my son and daughter both me and my wife were raised by men and woman of quality so we were able to pass on the knowledge of what we learned. We are passing the K selected genes forward. For those of us who were raised by K-selected parents (plural) then we have a pretty good example of how to raise children. Not perfect but a good start. We still need to learn more and we should always be learning. For those who were raised by an r-selected parent (single) then you have a pretty good example on how not to raise your children. Also how not to have sex in a responsible manner. So you need to learn how to have a lasting relationship that is positive in nature. For those who were raised by a mix couple were one parent is r and the other is K, I think you probably have it the hardest. These couples stay together because the K is loyal and will stay with their spouse no matter what including tolerating abuse to themselves and the children. The r stays because they get what they want which is either sex or resources. If you take after your r selected parent you learned that you can get what you want from manipulating. If you take after your K parent you learn that you should always give unconditionally. Well I think I'm beginning to go off topic so I'll end my rant.

Absolutely wonderful!!!

lol. My kids are expert in that subject too.

Thanks algernon. I will look into Ron Paul's curriculum. I'll keep you all posted on what I find. Love the quote too. That is exactly what I want to teach my kids, how to learn for themselves.

I'm interested if anybody on this forum homeschooling their kids and what you are doing. I have eight kids so I'm trying to find some sort of curriculum that can cover all the ages and all the subjects. About the only subject I found a good curriculum is math ,we are using teaching text books. My wife was unschooled as a child so for the most part that is what we have been doing. While I like unschooling for some subjects, for math, science and history I would prefer a little more structure. A lot of the stuff out there is christian based, and I'm not a big fan of creationism. Any ideas would help. Thanks Paul

Wouldn't it be that baby formula decreases IQ and breast feeding would just keep it at its normal level?

I posted earlier but wanted to add some more. Can you give me some examples where your reputation was downgraded due to you being a christian? Why would a ancap society be controlled by atheists? I can understand there being a community where most of the people are atheist but I also think there would be a community full of Christians too. I would assume you would want to live in the latter. I'm a Mormon. I'm teaching my kids Mormonism. If I lived near you would you let your kids play with mine? Would you think I'm abusing my kids because I'm not a "true" Christian? You think you have it rough, try growing up Mormon in a neighborhood full of born again Christians. You be surprised how many times I was told I will go to Hell since I worship a "different" Jesus. I wasn't even aloud to play with some kids in the neighborhood because of my faith. Why in God's earth would you think anybody would want to take your children away because you are teaching them Christianity? That would be even more abusive. I think the worse that would happen is that they would not associate with you. I know you love Jesus Christ, He is your personal Savior and you want to proclaim him with boldness as Paul the apostle taught. I understand that. I spent two years as a missionary doing just that. However you need to know your audience. While we can teach with boldness we also shouldn't cast our pearls before swine. I assume Jesus Christ is your pearl of great price and you would want to hold him sacred. My atheist friends I'm not calling you pigs just referencing a scripture in the bible so please don't take offense. I'm just taking my Christian brother to task here.

Thank you for the welcome algernon. Since finding out about peaceful parenting I have been working on my yelling. The thing that has been working the best for me is to think before I speak when I'm angry. I find if I pause and reflect on what is the best way to handle the situation first then I do not yell but instead speak in a calmer voice. My first instinct is to voice my opinion in a very loud voice. I think you are right I just have to change my mode thinking and the yelling gene will turn off.

I never thought about this. Now it make sense why our midwife waited to have me cut the umbilical cord until 20-30 minutes after the baby was born. In fact she would insist on my wife birthing the placenta too, which sometimes was 10 minutes after the baby came. She also offered my wife the option to eat the placenta but my wife refused.