NigelW

I would like to explore the language around family and hopefully flush out an idea that I have. So, I grew up seeing and hearing my parents communicate. They used words and phrases specific to their relationship. Phrases like: “…my wife.” “…my husband.” “…my son.” The above phrases are not accurate in describing relationships because by saying “my” I am defining someone outside of myself as my property. It can be confusing to a child to hear people defining each other as each others property. Voluntary relationships are different because you are responsible for choosing to be in them. You have far more choice. A dependent child is in the relationship involuntarily. The inaccurate use of the concept of property is misleading in the phrase “my son” because it says by definition, that “I own you.” I am comparing this to using language that is individuating. Instead of saying "my son", saying Nigel. Has anyone else had similar thoughts?

I think we can say that Dwain is wasting everyone's time. It's something I think is worth being conscious of.

I would prefer that if people see me in a thread with someone who has been a troll that they tell me that I am wasting my time.

Ok, Dwaine, from what I've read you are well read. You're knowledge of what you're trying to define outstretches mine. But as you probably know, for something to be true, it must be valid and accurate. If you think what you're espousing is valid, the next step would be to test it empirically. (yourself)

Why are you not asking questions?

Thank you for the links!

Are you dissatisfied with the answers, Dwain Dibley? As you said: "Ideology expresses dissatisfaction with the current state and aspires to be some future state whereas philosophy tries to understand the world in its current state." I haven't seen one question yet.

Do you think idealogy is bad? One of the basic requirements for something to be true its validity. Validity requires conformity to the rules of logic. It just means that it can't be true. Is it bad that people on a plane heading for vacation have a strong preference to be in Hawaii? If I get on that plane and I don't want to go to Hawaii, it's not that persons fault I choose to follow.

Can you tell me more about your experience? I remember my father bringing his friends home when he was drunk. My mother chose to dissociate and was often emotionless and high. I would often yell and scream at him just to get his attention. When he decided to come home from working months on end he decided to sleep for long periods of time. I feel intensely sad when I think of how much neglect I went through and I am sorry that you experienced something similar.

Hello, I am looking for feedback regarding on how best to organize an FDR meetup. It is something I think I can add tremendous value in with my spare time. The starting point would be tonight. We went through UPB in a nutshell and attempted to argue either side of every point. I got a lot of value out of it. I see my group organizing future meetups and I am wondering what everyone else is doing to have major success in this realm. The goal is to create a strong association of people that will hopefully help them live their values. The focus being on meeting people where they are at and connecting. Like I said we started with looking at UPB, but where to next? This is very new to me and I would love an expert opinion. Thank you, NW

Yes conversations usually ended in a financial transaction. "Give me money because I'm trouble". It reminds me if how my father financially exploited me as a child. I was misled in thinking that by helping my brother financially in the past that he would find some kind of independence. He called using my grandfathers phone because he can't afford it himself. I don't have a financial support network. I'm not sure if I can connect 100% with that feeling. Can I ask why you feel that?

I understand that this conversation may be vulnerable to my misinterpretation so please don't take it personally if I am distorting. I reminded him that he is in a situation where the people around him are letting him do drugs. He then said that he loved his uncle. I told him that that is definitely not the actions of a loving person. He then said again that he loves his uncle. I said that I feel like my time is being wasted. He started crying. I justified picking up the phone initially with a financial reason. I owe my grandfather a debt and I feared not picking up the phone. I was misled and my brother and uncle were on speaker.... I froze. So I engaged them in a conversation and it went as expected.

Great. Thanks for the help again Samuel!

I don't want to over analyze this too much but there is something else I would like to contribute. A philosopher is someone who attempts to define reality. And by definition reality is logical so to attempt to define reality you must be rational. A downhill biker can go uphill sometimes. I suppose someone could ride a road bike down a rocky mountain. hah Hey SamuelS, I thought more about what you said and the conclusion we reached that things are not their effects. I think that is true because an orange is not just the exterior, but the juice and the pulp as well. A hollowed out pumpkin is not the same as a pumpkin on the vine.

So self examination necessarily leads to not being in a state of nature?

He was with my uncle. I think that I was on speaker phone. I'm 23, he's 21. I physically and verbally abused him as a child. I'm frustrated that I justified picking up the phone in the first place.

So I just received a call from my alcoholic uncle and my pot smoking brother. My uncle told me how proud he was of me and I pointed out that he was drunk and hadn't contacted me in years. He concluded that I was embarrassed of him. My brother talked about his pot smoking problem and I pointed out that his uncle is letting him! I said that seeking professional help and getting the crappy people out of your life would be a step in the right direction. He went on about how he wanted to change and verbally complied with what I was saying with mono-toned acknowledgements, "Mmhm" "Yah". I then said that "I feel like you're wasting my time." He started crying and I hung up shortly after. I called back five minutes later and apologized to my brother for treating him the way that I did when we were younger. I asked him about his experience and there was no connection and I told him. I hung up and now I am writing this post. As for why I answered the phone, well I picked it up because it was from my grandfather's home phone and he usually does not call unless it's urgent like student loan stuff which he cosigned. I would feel a lot safer if I was financially detached from my family and that is what I am in the process of doing as the last two time I tried supporting people financially it ended in ruin. I'd like to explore the dynamics of the interaction a bit more. If anyone has any questions, feel free.

Thanks dude.

I accept that I am conflating philosophy with marketing and that you do not need to communicate the value of everything in your life. Just as you do not need to justify daily tasks. Am I correct? I keep running into the same problem where I try to define something and it turns out that I am focusing on the effects rather than the process. You are right, it is frustrating.

Then why call him a horse rider? If a philosopher no longer uses logic, he/she is not longer a philosopher. I think what you're getting at is that because someone uses logic does not mean they will, or have to, use logic in every instance of their life. I definitely agree, I don't need to justify eating breakfast in the morning. I just do it. Ok so you're saying that I am talking about philosophy and conflating it with marketing. Can you tell me more about what you mean?

I will agree that the title is vague but the capacity for choice is so much higher for an adult that to say that an adult is being vulnerable by being honest is not true. I would not be exploring this definition if I did not think I could handle someone disagreeing with me or if I thought it would harm my physical health. The topic should be more accurate. Something like Adults are not as vulnerable as children and you are only honest if you think you are safe.

Compared to being overpowered and spanked by a woman, you are not vulnerable I would hope. I mean to compare being a child vs being an adult and you have the power to chose not to do such a thing. While a child doesn't have a damn choice. I am unfamiliar with that fallacy. Can you walk me through it?

Sorry, maybe I didn't communicate effectively. As a child I chose behaviors that would not lend me to be vulnerable. I chose behaviors that would keep me safe. Now that the stimulus is gone I no longer need to behave in that manor to survive because my capacity for safety is a lot higher in that I can relax in my apartment all weekend or go for a bike ride. I am speaking from my experience and I think that if I had continued on my old path with no self knowledge that I would have remained vulnerable to attack, addictions, and a loss of integrity because it was all I could do to survive as a child. To be a slave to words and terribly weak willed individuals in other words. So someone who has self knowledge is really arming themselves to the teeth against the words of others. Like a swordsman who is putting on a full suit of armor and grasping the sharpest blade to defend against physical danger. I agree that the swordsman is vulnerable to attack, but it's safer than not if you want to have an identity. Does that make any sense?

@SamuelS Well I know that I am capable of surviving criticism but other people do not. If the goal of a philosopher is to just simply say stuff... then I want no part of it. The definition of convincing is to cause someone to believe that something is true. I would say that if we know that we have the capability of surviving criticism and the knowledge that people become hostile to it when confronted by it, then we are responsible for finding ways to convince them if they goal is communicating the truth. If the goal is not to communicate the truth... well lol cmon In other words, by surviving criticism we are showing that it is possible. We are leading by example.

Given that I want to pursue morality, I accept that a good philosopher values the truth over changing other peoples behavior and that it is manipulative to value results over methodology.