Markus FIN
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Posts
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Joined
Everything posted by Markus FIN
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I agree with that, somehow it was just hard for me to get that point across.
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They didn't really before either, even when we agreed because of the sheer frustration and amount of energy that it takes. Thinking about the great truths of the world (after i got interested in those) can be exhausting to some people. :/And yes it A LOT of fun! :3
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Thanks for the advice and it is true that political action seems inefficient, even more so if the decisions that are proposed are SMART decisions. Guess we just need to try and change ourselves bit by bit and see whether or not others will join us or ditch us. Also I am a bit skeptical about changing your way of life overnight as that may cause your friends and family to be shocked and deny your actions or even worse leave you. I have been taking it slow and I have presented some of my Libertarian ideas to the people around me and there have been many kinds of reactions. My Socialist friend obviously says that I have gone completely off the rock and he wants me to tell him why I think Libertarianism is a working concept. My friends are completely neutral to it and it doesn't really matter to them. My parents are a bit annoyed that I am becoming a "fundamentalist" but they say that they respect my choice as long as I don't attempt to force feed them my political views. I guess by time we will see how they warm up to my ideas and who knows, I might even change my ideas completely while in the process. I am still going to follow politics as I find them interesting and I occasionally stop to discuss with politicians at their public appearances. I like to talk to all of them, the Liberals, the Socialists, the Conservatives, the Populists, the Environmentalists and the Communists. Today I spent about a half an our debating with a Communist politician about whether or not the right to own or the free market overall is an ethical concept. He had good points and we actually ended up in mutually beneficial conclusion which was a HUGE surprise to the both of us! I got a bit annoyed as he called me a Capitalist all the time even when I was yet to tell him my views but was simply asking and criticizing his... But it all came out just fine and we both went out merry ways. In Finland it is easy to just walk up to a famous politician and have a discuss with him before the elections. They are just chilling at the election stands ready to answer any questions or engage in a conversation with those who are interested. And not just the small politicians as I even once talked to the prime minister of Finland, Jyrki Katainen! They all (well most of them) have good arguments and I like to talk to them because it both gives me new information and points of view and allows me to create more and better counter-arguments. I go out to even the most fanatic Statists and sit down to hear their views and express mine. Most of that last part had nothing to do with what we were talking about but I just wrote it in there anyway as it doesn't hurt anyone.
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I agree with that. I as well think most people mean well but just don't understand how they are actually constantly using violence. But if they don't care about politics and don't want to talk about the subject? :/
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I agree that the US is pretty much hopeless now, but I still have not lost my faith with some European countries. But you could very well be right about the situation, it is just pretty depressing if it truly is so. Please consider the fact that I see the US as a pretty much lost case already but I believe that there are still countries which can be changed via political means. If we want people to not vote like retards and a actually understand the situation then we need to get economics to be a school subject and replace social studies with it.
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Can UPB be made clearer and more concise?
Markus FIN replied to labmath2's topic in General Messages
I agree. It does not have to be Stefan himself, it can be done by someone else who has a good overall knowledge of UPB. It would really help both those who simply don't fully understand the UPB and those who don't have much previous experience on philosophy. :)Markus FIN -
I never called anyone sheepish or a blind follower, I just said that in my opinion certain kind of action makes it seem like that to me. I mean I can say that you buying a lollipop makes you seem like a rapist to me but it doesn't make it true. I was trying to express that I want to know why some people act a certain way and I was hoping that someone would have the answer. Basically it was the same "lollipop" issue but said in a different way: "I think that buying a lollipop makes you look like a rapist. I am not saying that you ARE a rapist, but to me it makes it seem like it..." I really don't understand what in that sentence is actually responsible of a vote down. That is why I am asking from you.
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I understand what you mean and it explains A LOT. Thank you for pointing it out as now I can try to improve my ways so I can get rid if that mountain of downvotes... It's nice for you to take the time and help me, I appreciate it.
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I did, it was the podcast that I linked to my 3rd and 4th answers. In it he says it very clearly: "You don't keep people in your life that want you shot." And by people who "want you shot" he clearly meant anyone who is pro-state. So I should get rid of all people in my life who are pro-state.
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This not a topic of me whining about it, I really want to hear what kind of mistakes I am doing. I am looking to improve and it would be very helpful if I could hear what YOU think I am doing wrong. I thank in advance. 2 examples of my threads: https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/40066-open-letter-to-stefan-molyneux-about-relationships/ https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39919-an-open-letter-to-stefan-molyneux-about-minarchism/ Markus FIN
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Good posts, would give it a +1 reputation but it costs money so sorry but I won't. He understand the situation I am in and acknowledges that being a Libertarian is not an "on" or "off" type of situation. Markus FIN It might but my friendships are still good enough for me and I will not shut them off yet. Perhaps later on I find new friends who fit me even better than the ones that I have now, but that will be in the future. To quote Merle Dixon: "You need to play with the hand you get and I only got one."
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I watched episode one of it already but I am yet to pick up part two. I'll check that next! Markus FIN
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"Stop associating with those who would attack you for your opinion." Please don't dislike this comment because I am going to tell you my completely honest opinion on how I feel about Anarcho-Capitalism after watching that video... The fanatic fascists, the fanatic socialists and the fanatic religious groups all have similar ways of action as the one you just pointed out. They all are 100% sure that what they know (which they do not as they only believe) is the truth and they are willing to cut all social relationships and connects to the outside world for it. Not all of them can be right, so some of them must be wrong. It is likely that most of them were actually wrong and that their beliefs only led them to insanity and sorrow. Libertarianism is based on philosophy and rational thinking, but how can I be sure if this is the right path to follow? What if this is the wrong path and I spend my entire life trying to catch a ghost. In a way it seems like while Stefan is inviting us in with open arms he is simultaneously closing the gate behind us to make it harder to leave. I am trying to stay between the gate and the rest of the world but it is squeezing tighter all the time. Stefan says that the world I left behind is the prison and the door he is opening for me is the way to freedom. But how can I be sure that the prison is not the place he is offering me? I am going to try and clarify my thoughts and feelings by using the Truman Show as an example. Let's say that Truman is just minding his own business in the world which he thinks is real and one day he meets a man called Stefan who tells him that he is actually living in a big artificial world and has been observed and enslaved for his entire life. Truman then becomes confused and starts talking about it to people. People say that he is crazy and should stop thinking about it, which causes him to go back to Stefan. Stefan then tells him that they only say that because EVERYONE is part of the fraud. Everyone you have ever known or ever will know is an actor. To be able to become free you will need to stop associating with other people and cut all connections to the outside world. The only way to make it stop is to make you useless for the show, anything else and it would keep going. If you do not interact with anything, they show will go bust and they will be forced to let you leave. Truman believes him and does as he is told. He goes into the basement with food and locks it up tight until everyone admits the truth and the outside world is being dissembled... As it turns out Stefan was incorrect and there was no artificial environment. It had been the real world all the time and Truman had thrown away all of it. His friends, his wife, his children and his family because they just would not confess to him that they were supposedly "actors" and the world around him was a fraud... This is why I am EXTREMELY CRITICAL when it comes to radical political or religious ideologies. To me it is the trademark of a wise man to check what is behind every door before deciding which one to choose. If one of the doors tries to close itself behind me while I peak inside, I immediately slam my foot in between to stop it. If I get trapped in the room and there is no way out I will never be able to return. I can't be sure what's on the other side of the door, but if I make the wrong choice I can never go back. So like I said, I will slam my foot in between the door and peak inside. No matter how prominent it looks from outside, I will never go permanently inside until I have seen everything. This comes straight from my heart and I do not mean to insult ANYONE. Markus
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Now it works! I will check that out.
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Fuck it, this topic is re-opened. Who says I want to leave the farm? What I want is that the farm would not be a prison from which you can't escape. There is no possibility to get away from governments in the current world and that is the only problem. If I leave the farm I will just end up on another farm. There is no unclaimed wilderness anymore, so where would I leave to? If there was a CHOICE between living free and living in a state, I would choose the state. It is like choosing which hotel to go to and I will rather pay money to sleep in a comfortable bed than sleep outside in the woods. As long as you give the people the freedom to NOT be a part of the state, there will be no major ethical issues. If people voluntarily give their money to a government in order to live there, then the question of whether taxing is moral or immoral because obsolete. If you think there is a logical error or something else that I have made a mistake with then please state it in a post. I would appreciate if you only disliked when I have done something inappropriate. Markus FIN Thank you for backing me up xelent, you are a great guy! Sorry for you bro, I don't know why anyone would dislike that comment. To me it seemed clear and rational.
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Thank you a lot. On kiva nähdä täällä muitakin suomalaisia! The advise that my dad gave me was that I can believe everything I want and he won't judge, but I just mustn't go out to the streets shouting "my truth" like some religious nut. I use a lot of time to think about these issues and at the current moment I am struggling on figuring out how could it prevented that in a completely free society there would not be gang of thieves and murderers that use force on others... Minarchism still has some advantages as in it we can use the state to enforce the NAP to people who otherwise would rape, steal and murder. If Anarcho-Capitalism works in practice however, I am 100% for it. Suomalaisia FDR:ssa, torilla tavataan. Thank you all for posting on this thread and I hope it has helped some people with their political dilemmas. I very much enjoyed this conversation with you all and I hope you do well! THIS THREAD IS CLOSED Markus FIN
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Thank you so much for caring about me enough to write that, it really means a lot to me. :') I decided to tell my father that I am an Anarcho-Capitalist and he WAS FINE WITH IT! Even though he was a bit: "I hope you know what you are doing..." He was still okay with it as long as I don't try to force my views on them 24/7. I will go easy on them but that doesn't mean I am not going to explain my views to them from time to time! So you said I can choose betweem my morality and my social safety-net... FUCK THE CHOISE SYSTEM! YOU CAN COUNT ME IN! IF MY NET DOESN'T RESPECT MY VIEWS THEN FUCK THEM! I TAKE THE RED PILL!Period.Markus FIN
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I don't have the statistics for how many people have died in anarchy, because there has been so many examples throughout history and most of them only last a short period of time before a new government is formed. But of course I understand that there would be less deaths in a society without a state, that has been stated here a multiple times. The thing is that where I live saying that "there should be no government" is a huge taboo... If I even try to explain to the people around me why I would prefer a stateless society they look at me like I am a freak. They don't even let me explain, they simply believe they are correct. They don't care about statistics. They don't even want me to show them! So that is what I am saying, sorry if I am coming out repeating myself, but I am just very confused by the fact that people around me in real life simply don't CARE about this stuff... That is what I meant with over 50% agreeing with the violence of the state, they simply aren't interested as long as it doesn't directly concern them. Also it's okay that you voted down that post. After all we learn from feedback. What was the part that you felt I was dishonest about? Also I have thought of closing this thread because there has been so many good arguments in favor of Anarchism. There really isn't anything more I can say here, but I have been hesitant of closing this thread in case someone has an idea or an argument I have not heard before. But yeah if you think I should close this thread then just say it and I will, because it has been going in circles for a while now. Markus FIN
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I agree with you. Welcome to the forums dude, I am a Minarchist as well and it is nice to meet others of the same kind. Please if you are interested in "lurking" before posting anything, then check out my thread: "Open letter to Stefan Molyneux about Minarchism" I think you might enjoy it, take care!
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I used to, but not really anymore. But most people (over 50%) fear anarchy because if it gets out of hand it causes people to die. Anarchy has lead to a lot of deaths in history because bad people have abused it and most people don't believe we could somehow "change" these bad people. To them it's Utopistic and will never work. I am not 100% sure which way I go yet, because like I have said I like to take things slow and not rush into anything... One of my biggest fears is to rush into something without thinking and ending up being incorrect. Markus FIN I GOT THE MESSAGE! YOU CAN GO EASY ON THE DISLIKES NOW...
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I am not that familiar with the drug issue that is going on in the states, but overall people believe that a controlled violence is a better idea than an uncontrolled violence. :(Markus FIN
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Well said! Markus FIN I am not sure I understand what you mean, but in my opinion you can compare the government to a mafia that everyone is a part of. We call get to take part on what the mafia does, but we can't choose to stay out of it. So if we were all living in a society that had a mafia like that, then yes it could be considered as a government. A government in a modern society is in my opinion complicated as fuck... The use of force is widely considered reasonable in order to keep chaos at bay. Markus FIN
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Public sector. Anything that is being run via taxes or by the use of force. Legal system, police, medical service etc. Markus FIN
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Yeah, you might be right. I guess we'll see about this when I talk with Stefan. I have been debating about politics since I was 13 and I really don't know what to excpect this time. As I see it no-one in this community has ever "won" Stefan in a debate about this subject, so my chances aren't too high to begin with... What I am hoping for is that Stefan will understand my point of view if I explain it to him right and maybe have some ideas on how I might understand Anarchism better. Hell, I might even be able to tell him some things that he is yet to consider, but that is a bit far fetched... But a man can dream right? ;)Markus FIN
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I will read the "Libertarian Manifesto" for sure! And yes I agreed with the slavery example the way you said it. If this was the 17th century and I was asked the same question about slavery, then I would give the same answer. If we want to talk about morality to the limit, then wouldn't squashing a fly be a murder? Of course I am going to the extreme there, but in nature there is always SOMEONE who suffers so others can gain... So yes, I would want evidence that a world without slavery would work if there had not been any societies without slavery. When slavery was abolished in USA people were already fully aware that the world would work without it so it was pretty simple to make decicion. However we still are to witness a stateless society, so jumping into it with purily moral justifications is a long shot in my opinion. Like I said we need to TRY it first before we put it in practice around the world. It is like going up to a bunch of lions and saying that eating other animals is immoral and therefore they should stop it. If the lions can't convert from meat to vegetables and fruits then they will simply die... So first take a bunch of lions and try if they can convert. If they can then you can safely do it for the rest of them. :)Markus FIN Excuse me? O_oMarkus FIN