Bouncelot

This. Stay away from fad diets, nothing works better then consistent diet and exercise. Not sure where you are, but the Canadian government actually has a very accurate info. http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2015/43417a-eng.php A life change is necessary, however don't go overboard, ease into it. Often people get that "high" I am going to re-invent my life! They change too much too fast and either hurt themselves, or rubber-band and claim it is "too hard". Start with consistent exercise that does not push you to any extreme, adjust your eating slightly. Do this daily, and as your comfort grows, move closer and closer to your ideal. It will eventually just become part of who you are.

Welcome to the jungle!

It is a little different then that. It is not that she does not desire monogamy. She "thinks" that she is not capable of anything but a one sided relationship in her current state. She is currently in an abusive relationship where she is financially dependent on her abuser (mother). She has started to "wake up" and see her situation for what it is. She is currently working on herself, her self-knowledge, and her finances in order to deal with the situation. She has realized the issues with her past relationships, and her part the unhealthy aspects of them; and has decided that she should not pursue a romantic relationship(with anybody) until she is "better". However she still has a need for intimacy and "release"; and intends that if we do the FWB thing it would be monogamous. I am aware of a number of flaws in her thinking, she doesn't see them, yet. Things like, in her mind a relationship is a "burden". Or as you pointed out, the fact that what she desires with me is actually a monogamous relationship. Somehow in her mind it is "different" and that takes the pressure off of her and allows her to focus on herself. I am fully aware that this may go sideways. That she may not continue her pursuit of self knowledge, or may regress. Or in her pursuit she may discover that her desire of me is unhealthy. It is a risk. I just want to make sure that we do not harm each other in the process.

I have mulled the question over for many years, I have never had the opportunity, so never put any real focus on thinking it through. I always come to the same conclusion though... me personally I don't believe in meaningless (purely physical) sex. I need to at the very least respect and care for the person. Given this, If I am single, she is single; I care for and respect this person... why would I not date them? That is something I have never gotten past. The only situations I can think of where it "may work" is where the two people are extremely incompatible in some way that makes a real relationship not possible. Until recently I had not been able to figure out what sed incompatibility may be... Recently an Ex brought it up as a possibility. We her, there was never anything "wrong" with us. It was just that her life was in a state where she does not have the capacity for everything a relationship entails (at least in her mind). She is also aware that she needs to work on herself before moving forward with anyone. That said, she is a monogomous type person, and has no interest in anyone other then me... It has created a really odd dynamic between us. So in this one case I have been trying to figure out if it would be healthy or not...

Interesting article. Reminds me a lot of what a friend is going through now. This is the first time I have seen in described in this manner. I would really like to know if there is "hope" for these people.... I have been trying to get through to my friend, to get them to see what is being done to them.... She sees it, but there is like this logic bomb that keeps her from action. In her case most of what has been described in the article is spot on. The relationship is mother/daughter. I don't know how it stated, I only know the recent history. The things I have seen: - Convincing her daughter to quit her job and focus on school. (causing financial dependance) She has done this 3 times, in the past as well. - Knocks, bashes he daughter into doubting her self and schooling choices. She has convinced her daughter to drop our of school twice now. - Constant gas-lighting, things like hiding her phone when she is already running late for something. - Changing rules around the house randomly. (creating an excuse to be upset) - She has most of the family and extended friends lecturing her daughter on how much of a "bad child" she is, telling her that she should be nicer to her mother. (essentially a bad child for standing up for herself.) There is a number of others..... but I tried to group them into categories, with examples. ( ish ) The daughter is now in a state where she spiralling down, pushing away meaningful friendships in favour of her mother and her mothers friends. Her life has become the family (she is in her 20s btw). Her self esteem is gone, she is almost paralyzed in her own life, worried of what "mom will think". She suffers constant anxiety/panic attacks. Her health is constantly getting worse. She is in a state of hopelessness. There is a part of her that knows its wrong, that wants out... but she can't seem to act on it, and the mother is making sure she is too isolated for her to find outside support. It is one of the saddest things I have ever witnessed....

https://youtu.be/Ln7xrQM22VI

Seriously dude. What the fuck is your problem? You talk about projection and hypocrisy And yet you have jumped to all sorts of conclusions about my intentions and the meaning of my words, even my psychology and mindset. Who are you to know? Did you even ask me? Hypocrisy? You are in essence doing to me what you accuse me of doing to the OP.... Yes i admitted my mistake, and yet you still come after me. Dismissing my entire comment b/c of a mistake in the first 2 sentences. I did not apologize because to me any attempt would have come off as a BSNA. I prefer to make my apologies by changing my actions and never (hopefully) repeating my mistake. I know what I did and I thank you for pointing that out. I did not realize it at the time, and I will do everything I can to see it is not repeated. I honestly fail to see how my comments elicited such a toxic response from you.

Oh, it definitely was a BSNA. I only put it there b/c Kevin seems to have taken excessive issue with my comments and seems to demanding one (my interpretation). You are completely right that I could have worded things differently. I admitted it above. I did in fact make the same mistake the OP did, and without realizing it until Kevin pointed it out. I should have stopped to think before writing. I read the OP, and saw what looked like someone starting a fight, and then blaming the "feminist" for the direction the the conversation took; and it bothered me. I do like your rewording. I myself would have asked what they meant by respect, where they thought there was a lack of respect, to get some context on why they they made their post. What was the "root cause". That would give a starting point to a debate, and a chance to discover if they were really willing/open to discussing things rationally. I agree that w/o any real context we don't know where this discussion "began" (was there a history of these conversations? how well does the OP know this person?) Which is why I asked if there was more to it then the images shared.

I never said it was work dismissing. I admitted that it came off more abrasive then I had intended, that is all. If an apology is needed then I apologize. But this is in no way a retraction of my comments. My point stands. The OP looked like he was starting a fight for no apparent reason. He could not expect any other response then the one he got given his post. Just the fact the the post he was responding to mentioned respect (rather then demanding/ insisting on rights) and mention it was for both MEN and Women, should have been an indication that the post he was responding to may not have been your typical feminist drivel. It may have been worth asking for clarification in an interested tone rather then "attacking" the poster with a philosophical debate that was not invited. It was an attempt to wow the poster with his mental superiority, and thus shut down the conversation.

Yes, exactly the way I started off my response

The original poster may have started off aggressive, and was not very articulate.... but you started off by being a dick.... There were numerous ways you could have started into that conversation without being so confrontational. I saw nothing in their original post that warranted that. Asking them to clarify to to expand on their thoughts would have been a better start. Some of what they were saying was actually not that bad. It definitely did not deserve the response you gave. But perhaps there was more then what was in the images you shared?

I have to agree with vilagewisdom here. I also wanted to add that you need to ask yourself if you are read(have the capacity) for this, and if you are, will you regret at least not trying? Text/Emails do not convay emotion. Is it possible that his choice of words were not the greatest? That he meant something else?

Very interesting! Thanks for this! I can definitely relate to the relationship you had/didn't have with your sister. Most people look at me strange and don't quite believe me when I tell them that my sister is a stranger to me. I like the concept of the protective factors, I think that may have a lot to do with things. Most of them seem to be (at a high level) just by chance however. It's hard to look back and say what prompted one coping mechanism over an other, for example. Looking back at my own past, I remember always being aware of my false self. It was a mask I put on, but was able to take off when I was alone; and I always approached each new person with it off, in hopes of finding a real person, a friend. I am not sure what gave me that, I am not sure what gave me the strength to defy my parents teachings, to "know" they were wrong, and conversely to have my own sense for "right". This is going back as early as age 6. What created that ability is a question I have been trying to answer for a long time.

This could also be a defensive thing for them. I know many times in my life when I was (yes was) reaching for a goal, working hard, etc.... I got a lot of negative reactions. It seem to me at the time they they felt shame because they new they had no excuse to not be the same. So rather then taking a hard look at themselves, they lash out at the messenger. That said, I have fallen into one of those slumps myself, and am working to get out of it. I have very much taken on the "the world is a bad place" mentality. Partially b/c the environment of current career has changed a lot since I started 20 years ago. It went from a place where accomplishment mattered more then anything, to a very socialistic place where there is no accountability and "pull" is all that matters. So now I am looking for a place where my knowledge and skills will be recognized appropriately.

Becoming self aware, and asking yourself the hard questions is a courageous act. And the first step!

Waking up can be very tough. Especially since the lies can be so appealing. It takes true courage to take the steps you have taken so far! Have you considered therapy? Do you journal? It really helps to have an objective person to help us stay honest with ourselves. Feel free to add me: bouncelot1

I have been attempting to define/maintain a friendship with an ex. This is my first time attempting this, and it has brought up some interesting questions. If you look at it as "Love is an involuntary response to virtue.", which is the way I have always looked at things. Then "Why did you break up?" becomes an important question. If you no longer love them, was it because they turned out to not be as virtuous as you thought? If so, why would you want that person as a friend? To me, I find friendship to not be very different from a romantic relationship. The only difference is that in a romantic relationship there is physical/chemical attraction that leads to slightly more expectations. But at its base it follows all the same rules as a friendship. As I don't believe physical/chemical attraction "goes away" IF you entered into the relationship with a clear mind and long term goals (it wasn't just some fling) Based on this I don't really think it is under "normal" circumstances possible. If you are not longer together, there were reasons, and those same reasons should make you question the friendship. Can Ex's be civil? can they hang out in the same groups? Can they be acquaintances? sure! But good friends? If the attraction is there then it does not make sense to be friends, when you could be more; and if it isn't you need to understand why. That said, I think there are always exceptions. In the case of my Ex, she is not in a very good place, extremely inundated with family issues (she is in the process of swallowing the red pill), and simply does not have the capacity. So I thought I would give it a try. What I wasn't expecting (which I should have), is that those same issues also prevent her from maintaining a proper friendship as well.

I have discussed this in the past with a few female friends who admitted to enjoying it. None were without some past trauma, however none had a history of sexual or physical abuse (that they admitted to). For them is was mostly mild choking, and they enjoyed doing the biting "in the heat of passion". The choking thing has been explained to me as "feeling the mans strength", more of a primal thing, as I suppose the biting would be as well. Could just be a throwback to the monkey brain.

How does that phrase go? "If they do it for you, they will do it to you...." I have been in this situation way to many times. This may be different, but in every case for me they were drawn to the intellect, to nap, to everything that they current BF didn't have. Then they leached it from me, offering nothing in return.

It sounds like you two are just in very different places. You have started down the road of self knowledge, and he isn't ready yet. He may never be ready. Or he could wake up tomorrow just be ready. There is nothing you can do however to force him onto the road. Just live your life; lead by example.

I see what you mean. That did kinda backfire on me... To me, the ones who don't are indeed more messed up, but they really do think they are "happy" overall; and have no idea why they have these buried anxieties, and other issues. To us we see the sources of their issues, we see their lives as in shreds, but they don't That is kinda what i was trying to express.

One of the things that I have realized is, that i am angry with myself for not ending it, for waiting for her to "do the right thing". I knew by the end that it would not work long term. The potential was there, but she is not in the right place. She didn't have "room" for us in her life. This is 20/20 hind-site though. I knew she was having issues, I was waiting on her to open up about them before deciding to go. To me if felt like if I didn't I would be abandoning a friend in need.

I think it is more complex then intelligence. Although I think that is a factor. I have known some very smart/intelligent people who joined the mindless masses. It is incredibly frustrating when you meet one of these. I think on top of intelligence it takes the courage/stupidity to accept the truth at all costs. I think people are often brainwashed into accepting certain lies, religion & state-ism are two common ones. They take these things on "faith". They essentially build their whole identity on these things, so, when challenged, they get very defensive. To ask them to think is to ask them to tear their life to shreds, and question everything they have ever been told. I have witnessed a few people go through this, and have a friend going through it right now. Unlike your friend she her eyes have started to open. But like your friend, she her defenses are strong. She is fighting it. She will only talk about it on her own terms, in her own time, and also has refused to watch Stephan's videos. I think for some of us, its easier b/c our lives are already in shreds. We are more willing to accept arguments against a system that has abandons us.

It slows over time as we figure more and more out. If your "heart" and your "mind" are at odds, it usually means that there is still more to discover about yourself. I don't believe they should ever be split. There are still things i am working through... I still have feeling for her which I know logically I shouldn't. I need to discover the root of those feelings. It is only through self knowledge that we bring our heart, mind, and body into alignment as they should be. Unlike you we are "trying" to be friends. At this point I am not sure it is worth the mess it creates. Our ending was different though... She recognized her issues, and ended things before any real damage was done.

Welcome to the club... Once you swallow the red pill, its hard to go back... Thanks for starting this thread. Your story reminds me a lot of myself and my ex. I am still working through my side, but reading this an, and all the wonderful comments have really helped give me a few new places to look into.