PatrickC

I'm going to stick my neck out here and assume that you are taking the MGTOW position, or at least the more radical end of that idea. I think I heard one of Barborossa's rants a while back, where he referred to the PUA community as a bunch of 'pussy pleasers'. It was an interesting take on PUA that I hadn't considered before. What's your take on mastery of any kind amongst men. Such as a painter, poet, singer or mastery of any kind. It seems to me that women are always going to be attracted to men that display mastery. Wouldn't that be the basis for most romantic relationships. Or is it just what you consider as the more shallow skills learnt with PUA that you find the most troubling.

So perhaps I'm confusing your last comment with a potential 'white knighting', who knows? So far you still haven't complimented many or most of your comments with much or any reason.

You are acting like a shill here (no surprises). Despite the issues that may or may not occur at AVM according to your good self. You may want to approach the history that many men have spent in silence. Personally I can accept some 'shrill' speak from men that have been put through the cultural grinder, so to speak.

So this is another reason why I don't need to engage with you. You perhaps want to listen above the white noise, but I'm not holding my breath of course.

I'm really of this opinion where men are concerned, "A man must be big enough to admit his mistakes, smart enough to profit from them, and strong enough to correct them." – John C. Maxwell That doesn't absolve women of responsibility mind, it's just that as men, if we want to lead (which I think we do), then it seems incumbent on us to take that responsibility I think.

At what part should I listen ILO? Ok, scuse my lack of reading

Other than a minority perhaps, I'm not sure men are doing this.. But I do agree, that it doesn't require a male political revolution of course.. Do you think this is happening Mishelle?

But how would someone know that?

With respect, you have not answered my UPB question.

Interesting, there is a lot of reasons to ask a woman these days, if she is cool with a sexual approach. Since a woman can decide these days after the fact, that she has been raped, even with her initial consent.But sure, I think men would feel much safer in a woman's company generally. Whilst there is a risk of rejection, a woman will rarely knock your teeth out (I hope). I agree with LP that many men (boys) have been given poor social skills, but I think that has a lot to do with the way feminists have dominated the zeitgeist on how women supposedly feel. At least in part.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/19/jeremy-hunt-cruelty-became-the-norm-in-nhs-4193430/ "Cruelty towards patients became ‘normal’ in the NHS without anyone noticing, according to Jeremy Hunt." Apologies for starting a new NHS thread, but I couldn't locate Alan's initial post.

I'm doubtful that feminists are particularly interested in the plight of children. Since they continually rebuke opposition to single motherhood, this despite the evidence to show the negative consequences for children. It's fair to say that there are many women and men that care about human trafficking of course. But I think feminists see this as an opportunity to gain more power and lobbying strength within the UN sadly. I certainly agree that the shaming of either side of the transaction in prostitution is both futile and erroneous.

That's a very good point Robin. Women especially need to feel safe around men and humour is a part of that I guess. And yes, humour is a big part of friendships for sure. However, a woman's relationship with humour is quite different to that of mens. I'm not sure I've ever heard a guy say, 'man that funny lady was hot!'. I mean it could happen, but it's unusual I think.

You have my biggest sympathy for what your father put you and your brother through, that was quite wretched. I'm just gonna throw out a possibility here for you, so take it with all the salt necessary. But anger in my opinon is an appropriate response to how your father treated you. If you feel all consumed by it, then I suggest you haven't attributed blame correctly and that it's possible you blame yourself partly. This wouldn't be that unusual of course, since children will internalise their experience of their caregivers. Check out Alice Millers book, 'Drama of a Gifted Child'. Just an aside, forgiveness would be an involuntary act akin to love. It would be a reflection of how much sorrow and restitution a person made to resolves things with you. You literally have no control when it comes to forgiving someone. Best wishes.

In terms of UPB, can you be more clear about what you consider is the moral theory we are testing? For example, perhaps: 'Does following a stranger violate UPB?' This is the closest theory I can test, based on what you've written so far, but perhaps I'm missing something more.

I do tend to agree with MooMoo's point that PUA can have useful approaches on how to deal with the shit tests that younger men can face from some women. And they do a rather good job of dispelling the notion that women are made of china. But I do find your point rather compelling all the same. Whether it fits every woman, then perhaps not. But I appreciate you're generalising for brevities sake. PUA does seem to be a lot about appealing to women's base urges and laughter seems to be the ultimate aphrodisiac for many of them.

Interesting perspective. I recall joking with some women in the past, that they only ever needed men as a jester for their titillation.

Well, actually this had little to do with getting a better price for their oil, but more to do with reducing the power of the US dollar. Oil isn't the commodity of choice here, rather the fiat that you buy it with.

Certainly found some of your thoughts on this topic in this thread very interesting aeon. I was curious mind, regarding the above statement. It seems to me that the weakness of the NAP position lies within the broader implications this axiom has on entire lifeforms. Which is why some people are arguing that the NAP applies to animals as well as humans. Reciprocity seems to be the linch pin philosophically, rather than sentience. This is why I defer to better positions than the NAP, such as UPB, which deals with this topic rather well. However, if you think sentience is the key component, I'd be interested to hear why you think it is better than reciprocity.

Wasn't particularly talking about your argument Chris. Just to clarify.

Insanity is political of course.

When there is there no argument.. As the saying goes, 'you wait for the fat lady to sing'.

Don't encourage him, if only for you're own philosophical sanity and integrity.. I always thought this forum returned more sophisticated trollage. Not a return to the dark ages frankly.

Yes that makes sense. Just to clarify, that I meant 'dysfunction' as a product of trauma.

I feel a certain resistance to this idea. Not entirely of course, but the suggestion that prostitution merely revolves around a man's dysfunction isn't quite so clear cut I think. If it is dysfunctional, then surely it relates to both parties in the transaction and not just one half.