PatrickC

Riffing from Nathans post RJ. Anger is absolutely 'essential' and I'm highly skeptical (indeed suspicious even) of anyone that claims to never experience it. Also as Nathan rightly points out and I'll paraphrase, rage is unprocessed and often misdirected anger.

See how you framed that question? Absolutely I am, children cannot hope to understand the implications of becoming transgender at such an early age. I would be irresponsible as a parent to allow it, when there is so little evidence of the effects these drugs (in the long term) at such a young age.

I have to admit to personally struggling with understanding this topic. I do have a lot of sympathy for people that find themselves in the position of considering transgender as something they want to go through. I don't have any personal moral issue with it either, since it's entirely voluntary (at least for adults). In no way can I equate transablism or transracism with that of transgender either. But it does concern me that we are somehow compelled to normalise it, without question. That we are told that all those questions have been answered. When a lot of evidence shows many transgenders often regret having surgery afterwards. The suicide rate I don't think can be entirely correlated to transphobism alone either. Admittedly anecdotal, but I've seen and met transgenders and they were rarely if ever discriminated against. My main concern with normalisation, is that many children are being put through this process, with little questioning. Often as young as 9 years old. It's one thing for adults to choose this process, but quite another for children I think. Until there is overwelming evidence that this is more than just a pschological issue with some messed up brain chemistry. Brain chemistry possibly caused by childhood trauma, either in the womb or in infancy I have to remain skeptical. This of course does not excuse being hateful or hurtful towards those that identify as transgender of course.

I haven't the time just yet to read through this whole thread, but some of it struck me as quite interesting and hope I can add something interesting myself to this topic. This is just my opinion, mostly based on anecdotes and having processed my own religious upbringing in depth. I would say that many people can turn to religion so as to find an outlet for reasonableness. People enjoy a community that has strong ethical values that can help relieve them from indulging in otherwise dysfunctional and unhealthy patterns of behaviour. Behaviour that might otherwise have a detrimental effect on their future life. It gives them stability being around people that they see as helping them avoid acting out on these pathologies. In which case I no longer hold the opinion that religious folk are delusional in their belief. They are delusional insofar as they aren't honest with others about what religion actually does for them. Religion tends to have a net positive effect on a persons life and is a ready made community which the wider world mostly allows them to indulge in, with relative impunity. It's a safe harbour so to speak.

I'd say check out as many ideas as you can. Even the ones you may initially think you will profoundly disagree with. Some of the most intelectually fertile ground imo is within the 'manosphere' and 'reactosphere'. Loosely, they are a hotchpotch of socially conservative, classical religious liberals to radical rightists. I point to a handfull below. Davis M.J. Aurini Millennial Woes ramzpaul Spetsnaz As interesting sideshows to listen too as well: TL;DR Sargon of Akkad Although TL;DR is perhaps the more interesting imo. They argue a lot amongst themselves and I certainly don't agree with many of their conclusions. But I've had my mind changed or lets say more logically redirected on a number of topics they discuss, from gender/masculinity, politics, religion, nature/nurture to race. It's interesting to note that Stefan appears to embrace many of the more logical/scientific concepts and ideas they discuss. Not sure whether he listens to them much himself or whether this has just been a logical progression in his thinking. Personally I think I may have reached the outer limits of their thinking now. But I have found them way more stimulating than listening to the run of the mill libertarian/ancap podcasts that rarely discuss anything beyond the basic ideas I came to understand almost 10 years ago. Although I still listen to old FDR member Jake Desylas of the The Voluntary Life and the recent schoolsucks podcast series where the hosts and guests discuss their personal ACE scores to be really interesting. Like FDR there does seem to be some progression in thinking amongst these two shows, unlike many others. Again all my opinion of course.

In the spirit of this thread I gave my upvote to you. This too has been my experience of Kevin and I thought your response was candid and sincere. Not enough people get appreciated for the time and effort they put in here and are an important part of this community.

I mean't to add to either Mike or Stefan, if this story at all interested you. I'd be quite happy to do all the research behind it for you.

This is a terrible story that I had been listening to on the periphery and now thankfully seems to have been thouroughly unfounded. That said, the story hasn't come without its cost to the lives of these two children of course. To paraphase the judges thoughts on this case.- "These children had been forced to concoct accounts of horriffic events by their mother and her partner and that their stories came about as a result the judge said of relentless emotional and psychological pressure and significant physical abuse. That included hitting, punching, pinching, pushing and pouring water on them as they were kneeling down half dressed. The judge used the word 'torture'." I am wondering if the team would like to do a show on this story, perhaps a 'Truth about' one, then again perhaps not. Instead why not a podcast on how a father (or a mother) might deal with this kind of situation in the aftermath. I'm quite sure Stefan could bring some well needed clarity to this sad story and how a parent with integrity can hope to help their children heal afterwards.

Yea, fess up you button pressing lurkers. Anyone would think Kevin and Joel were here fishing for unexplained upvotes. My God! I even got two myself. Don't let me set the roos on you now.

Hey Joel, how about commenters and posters slugging it out like this perhaps. On second thoughts, I'm way too old for that.

I took the liberty of listening to the podcast you mentioned. Perhaps it was because I wasn't concentrating at the right moment, but I didn't hear Stefan mention Alpha fermales at all. If you get time and can timestamp it more accurately for me, I'll take another listen. However, in the mean time I'll try and take a swing at your question. I'm not particularly familiar with the idea that the offspring of alpha females tend to be predominately male, so I cannot comment on that. However, alpha females are more likely to train their male children into alphas themselves. In which case they will pass down the traits considered of highest value within that group or tribe. So if virtue and integrity are considered as the highest values, then those are the values she will impart to her children. High status mothers also tend to want their sons to engage only with high status women and will impart important knowledge to her male offspring about the wily ways some women use in attempting to entrap them.

Of course, you should check for your competition. I mean maybe now there is some company that supplies flowers in a more organised and arranged fashion. I was selling roses at $5 each, having purchased them wholesale for around 50 - 70 cents, with a 15 cent wrapper. Wholesalers will let you buy in quantities of a minimum of 10. So you're not having to shell out for a ridiculous amount on your first try, to find you managed to sell only half or one third of them. Your selling price might be lower now. I doubt it's higher, since rose growing has become more efficient and cheaper since I was there. But you should look out for retail prices locally, so as to get some idea, there is normally a sweet spot which shifts them much quicker, but it's trial and error at first. Anyway find a pretty girl who needs a job, dress fashionably smart and go out together on your first night. Let her do all the talking on the doors, offering her the ocassional supportive comment here and there, so as to appear friendly and socialble. I guarrentee that you both will probably have a whole lot of fun together, which means she will sell more roses.

TBH who is ever going to know. In my case all I ever did was travel in a van to a wholesaler, pick up and buy some roses. Take them back to the hostel, wrap them up and wait for the girls to arrive to hand them to them and take payment from them for the previous days sales of flowers. None of this was illegal. The only illegal aspect of this was for the girls. They could probably get the police busting their balls (so to speak) if they were ever caught selling on the street. However, most of their sales (99%) were inside restaurants and nightclubs that they'd already negotiated stepping into. TBH trying to sell flowers like that is way easier for a women I tried it a number of times, but even with all the charm in the world struggled to sell 50% of the amount of flowers of my most successful girl. I had a couple of gay guys that worked the gay clubs mind, but even then the clientelle always seemed more interested in buying from the girls, so go figure. Men are the biggest market to buy these things and for obvious reasons wouldn't you say. If it's taxes you're concerned with, then I'm going to assume any florist that will take you up on your offer to sell flowers in this manner, will expect you to do your own taxes. So just go self employed, in which case you might as well supply them. Just go find a hostel with the hottest looking ladies in them and make your case to them.

Technically the alpha is whom the tribe or group around them consider him to be. As you say, that can range considerably and depends heavily on the values of that group or tribe. They can also sometimes lose their status at times in their life, depending on those variables. I'd say you were spot on with Stef's analysis too.

Yes, in the recent emotional Twitter rage exhibted by Ricky Gervais going after so called 'trophy' hunters in Africa that kill lions and giraffes. Beneath the hubbub there seemed to be a compelling argument coming from the hunters surrounding the conservation of these animals. This was because in the regions where these animals were protected, the animals either ended up destroying the local enviroment or they faced erradication, at least within those regions. In regards to trophy hunters, it seems that the local hunters know which members of the apex predators are on their last legs (so to speak) and would direct hunters towards those individual animals only. Normally too old or bannished from their group. As a result that community would preserve the existing population of wild animals, by managing their numbers and providing a well needed source of employmernt to the area. How true all that is in practice I don't know and personally it's not a past time I'd be intereted in doing myself. But it's certainly true that elephants are busy destroying large areas of savannah due to their high numbers and protected status.

Well initially, since I was buying the flowers direct from the wholesaler, it was always a cash only transaction. It was only when I opened the flower stall and was hoping to remain in Australia after my visa expired, that I went legit. That said, the girls I were supplying never went legit and it was a tax free income for them. The only hazzards they faced were from the restaurant or nightclub owners or their security. As you can imagine they fared a lot better in that dept compared to a skinny pommie fella. Bear in mind of course when supplying third parties like this. You often can't expect payment up front from them. They pay you after they return or the following day when I resupplied them, which of course have all the obvious problems of being potentially ripped off. Since I lived in the same hostel as them, some of them were already friends by then and any new girls I wouldn't employ until after a weeks stay in the hostel. That way I got a good picture of their character and they got to understand how much money the other girls were making. They could make a lot too. I would also send them out with one of the experienced girls on their first night, so as to get some feedback on their progress. It wasn't perfect, but by then I could afford the occassional loss when one or two of them ripped me off.

Ok, so given the feedback here and elsewhere, we will now be definately hosting a call on Saturday 20th June at 3pm (CST). This is 9pm (UTC+1) for me here in the UK and 4pm (EST). You will need a Google account to join the call, although you can just listen to it live on Youtube without one. I will post the live feed here, but if you wish to join the call then I will only be posting the caller link on both event pages (below). Look forward to chatting with you all. Google event page - https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/117472908323246912161/events/cjldonpcsv438l94r83bders9es Facebook event page - https://www.facebook.com/events/805718966211100/

The rural area I had much better luck in and with a much less obnoxious crowd, was in Nimbin on the east coast, inland from Byron Bay, south of Brisbane. The farming projects there were mainly permaculture ones, which made for a lot more variety of work. That said, still plenty of stoner hippies, although personally I find them to be less obnoxious than aggressive drunks. Just about to settle into the episode right now!

Wow sorry to hear about your experience. It's interesting, so the problems of backpacker employment still persist in Australia, as they did for me in 92/94. I soon left the rural areas after staying in a hostel with mostly unemployed backpackers. A miserable spectacle of over drinking, boredom and eating crap food (and having it stolen) I remember. The minimum wage was $9.60 back then and still way too much for the most menial of jobs. I was lucky enough to get a few contracts in Sydney. But then I struck gold, by supplying all the pretty girl backpackers roses to sell in the evenings in restaurants and nightclubs. I even had a flower stall on Taylor Square for a while too. Of course self employment didn't get your visa extended, as I later found out myself.

Excellent guys! Yes, the recording will be available on our Youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUC928ZJ3xrFftj9vrLColg I'm considering the start time as something like 4 or 5pm (EST) Saturday 20th June. However, I will confirm this when I finally post a Hangout event on Google that you can join. Remember there is a maximum of 10 callers at any one time. However, we can add people as they drop of course and people can listen if they are unable to join initially. At the moment I haven't quite worked out how to implement text chat for listeners yet. So if anyone knows how, I'd love to hear from you.

The Philosophy Film Club are strongly considering having an open discussion on Google Hangout discussing the latest season of Game of Thrones. This would be around the 20th June, which will be after the season ends. This will be a fairly casual affair, where people can choose to come and go as they please. But it's a great opportunity to meet some of the listeners as well as discuss a great series too. The hangout will also be broadcast live, so you could just listen instead. Let me know the interest and if you would like to join the call, you will need to add the film club to your Google circles (link below). https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/117472908323246912161/117472908323246912161/posts

Yeah, it's definately an annoying term Jake, because it infers that they don't exist. Which I know is BS, as I know quite a few virtuous women myself and ones that also have great romantic relationships and marriages too. Of course for those men that keep seeking women in the same places or never reassessing their own values, then it can probably feel like that for them.

Yes, you raise an interesting point WasatchMan. As Stefan once discussed, APA is the thing we struggle with and strive for the most. UPB by contrast is fairly clear and understandable. It's the advancing of personal virtue via APA, that very often is morally neutrel, that can take us much longer to master. That said, he did attempt to categorise them to a point in UPB. Although not in the way you're suggesting. At this point I don't see how, but that might be just my limitations of course. It would be pretty awesome if we could.

Self erasing (in your case) could be a way in which you use self critcism as a means to not holding the source of the critcism to proper account. This is why you prefaced all your opinions as 'feels like', 'seems like' etc. As if these things you and you alone were the cause of. People can self erase in a number of different ways. The classic one which Stefan often picks people up on, is to laugh at ones past trauma. This is a defense mechanism to avoid further trauma, which you brilliantly learn in childhood. However, it becomes defunct and a downright hindrance when applied in adulthood, when you're quite safe from the harm inflicted on you as a child.

If you think APA's should be universal or that they can sometimes be considered as universal moral theories, as you seem to be implying. Then you fundamentally do not understand UPB. Friendly advice before the call with Stefan. Either swat up on UPB or forget about using an argument that involves UPB/APA.