PatrickC

Oh my that sounds like a dreadful accident. I'm really sorry to hear about that. I'm glad the content has helped you and welcome to the community.

Only just recently introduced to this young lady that produced this film via my meet up group in London. She managed to win an award at her local University (Chelsea School of Arts) too. What I particularly like about it, is the way she gently coaxes the men into descibing their feelings. Really impressed by the quality and depth of this production. Please share. https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=303&v=dRrDOY-gSJ0

Wow!

Interesting Tunisia has ordered all mosques to be closed. They seem to think they know where this extremisim lies. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-33297245 Yes, I tend to agree with this. Maybe this is a eurocentric view, given that the Muslim poplualtion in the US is mostly integrated. Here in Europe we have large communities of Muslims that barely speak the language, who are often poorly educated. Since there are so many of them (500+ per day), they naturally want to hang together. They come with all the cultural scarring of the underclasses from totalitarian nations. Compared to Christians and Jews (even Hindus) I share little to no values with those of the Islamic faith, other than a few enlightened individuals. It should be noted that the more educated Muslim in Europe tends to spend most of their time defending their faith rather than condeming the attrocities done in it's name. It's more profitable for them to join forces with the left, who value the Muslim vote of course. Hence why we now have the most ridiculous slur of Islamaphobia. Which is designed to shut down any reasonable debate about this religion. Meanwhile Jihadi's run amok killing and butchering innocents.

I wouldn't expect anything less from you David given your recent conflations of course. Remind me, just how many women have you saved from the brink of lacking virtue.

I don't know guys, but a feminist repsonse was the last thing on my mind regarding this attrocity. What has struck me since, is the level of apologising and tolerance for a faith (particularly from the left) that seems to just want to say, we (or they) are a religion of peace. More than they are appalled by the attrocity itself. As far as I can tell this just fuels the terrorists further in their thuggery and degenerancy. I feel quite sick imagining these thugs just gunning innocents down on their sun loungers in cold blood.

A simply grim attack on tourists shot dead on a beach in Tunisa. 38 are now confirmed dead with more perhaps. A beheading also in France. The religion of peace strikes again. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-33287978 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/world/europe/french-factory-lyon-attack-isis.html?_r=0

Sure, a maxim is defined as an expression of a general truth or principle, especially an aphoristic or sententious one. Philosophically the NAP is only a guide (a good one of course) in terms of UPB. EDIT - That said, it's one thing to say it's a maxim and quite another to reject it wholesale as Kenshi is attempting to do. The NAP still has it's uses as a broad based principle. But it's useful to understand its limitations too.

Yes, the NAP is merely a maxim in philosophical terms and I would agree that it really isn't rigorously consistent enough of a concept. This is why we have UPB, which trumps the NAP in both rigour and consistency.

Thanks Mike for the update and sorry to hear about the sick kitty. I hear it might be serious too. Hoping he pulls through for you both.

Two of the best and most insightful lines from this thread thus far in my opinion.

Yes, I think this has been shown to be true at least in the anecdotal cases I've been familiar with where they used a style of PUA tactic that lasted into their marriage. Only to find that the woman got sick of it eventually and given the favour divorce brings women these days, was all too easy to kick them to the kerb. Sure a lot of them had a lot of very good character traits and in the cases I knew were often excellent fathers too. But for many of them they just didn't adapt to a more honest relationship with their wife. Or they did change, but their wife didn't and her attraction for them started to wane. Of course my experience is just anecdotal and perhaps there are some relationships that start out this way and last into marriage, parenthood and a fulfilling relationship. But the short term gains PUA's experience are not a magic wand to a virtuous womans heart, if that's what they're looking for. On an aside I've had my fair share of relationships with women over the years. Women (not all) can be way more cunning and often more vengeful than men when it comes to failed relationships. They can also accrue plenty of allies to further their cause. Which is why MGTOW was such a useful juncture in my life, as a means to step back and re-evaluate my approach, needs and desires when it came to women. However, I get it, for the guys that are still virgins late into their 20's or younger even. I can appreciate the frustration they must feel and how it's way too easy for me to say, just wait for that virtuous woman. So give PUA a go and get it out of your system, if that's what you really want. Just be conscious of what you are doing and as always play safe.

Well, in fairness you were inferring that I thought PUA were using mind control, which just seemed silly to me. That said, I think PUA are using techniques that they hope will point a lady to their dick. To what degree they are successful depends on the suspecptibility to those techniques of the woman they approach. PUA's wrongly think it will work on ALL women. It's just their 'game' that failed they think. Negging is a classic example of a PUA technique I know that doesn't work with every lady (tried it). Anecdotally the kinds of ladies that were suspectible to it, were either insecure, narcissistic, submissive and/or quite aggressive women. Is that mind control, probably not. The negging probably just triggers certain women (dependent on their histories) into attraction. The fact that so many women are seemingly suspectible to it would seem to infer the sheer scale of poor parenting many women have had. EDIT - Fathers teasing daughters springs to mind when I think about women that enjoy being negged.

This is interesting and quite funny too, given the obvious contradiction. PUA is all about attempting mind control over females. In much the same way as hot pants lady will try to control the mind of the man she's interested in. It's quid pro pro in the pick up game for many of either gender at this level. But I repeat myself.

Something my friends constantly berate me on.

Just bumping todays (or tomorrows for some people) open call later on. I'll post the live feed here for those that just want to listen, rather than participate.

Yeah, I saw that thread. I think I also alluded to some PUA behaviour as verging on the fraudulant in the same one too. I can certainly see where you're coming from Frosty, but I was quite hesitant to claim the behaviour as immoral. I don't know how familiar you are with UPB/APA. But it provides a much better framework for ascertaining moral behaviour than the NAP. The trouble with lying in the instance you mentioned could be akin to a girl wearing a push up bra with padding under her boobs. Make up too can often disguise a multitude of sins on a womens face, including her age. The other problem with this kind of fraudulence is that it's mostly accepted by both parties. In other words the guy that eventually peels of Ms wonderbras bra only to find a pair fried eggs on her chest is unlikely to complain much while he's doing the do (so to speak) with her. Likewise the PUA that told a girl some porkie (lie) to get her attention has probably deliberately forgotten about his so called meeting with his friends. Happy by then that she has his company to herself. There is a kind of complicitness that takes place between both parties in this regard. Of course to you and me this kind of behaviour comes off as creepy, insecure and lacking integrity. But we can't claim they have violated UPB. Which would be my guide to immoral actions. However, I would say the behaviour lacks virtue and integrity, if that makes sense.

I found this rather funny. In particular, after you later said this. I sincerely hope you don't use similar arguments and any of the assortment of fallacies you've been using lately with Stefan in tonights call. Good luck.

In much the same way as hot pants woman is unlikely to catch herself a virtuous man. Now I'll hear the roars from PUAs that will say they are way more sophisticated than your average lady in hot pants. So I'll be more specific then. There is a method in PUA land that is called 'negging'. This ranges from light digs to sharp almost crude criticisms of their target, interwoven with compliments of them too. Perhaps even some self deprecation for extra measure. It's designed to catch a girl off guard and distrupt her thinking. It also works as a useful way for the PUA to avoid discussing their authentic selves and put her in a position of defense. It works remarkably well on 'some' ladies, like the guy being seduced by the hot pants. The content of her character becomes the least discussed topic, whilst he's short circuited by her plunging neckline and tight hot pants. Any woman of virtue is going to see this as a deliberate attempt to avoid being authentic with her and will reject him accordingly. Of course to the PUA rejection is fine, they just move onto the next target. Never fully appreciating what they just missed. Virtue is not a science and people are virtuous on a scale. However, the least I would expect of a virtuous woman, is not to find herself persuing a guy that 'negs' her. Much like she can expect me, not to be seduced by hot pants woman.

Putting words into the mouth of your opponent again David. Long winded ones at that. Women have as much free will as the guy being seduced by hot pants woman.

Great video, but even better the podcast it links too at the end. Very entertaining and funny too. Thanks

You're right game is not immoral. Not sure why people want to keep leading it in that direction frankly. However, like tight hot pants, plunging necklines and overuse of make up on a woman, often leads to lowering the defences of a mans natural inclination to fuck as many women as he can. Game is mean't to lower a woman's natural defences from fucking fewer men. PUA will say that they are giving these women what they want. I agree, who could argue with a couple that are laughing and enjoying each others company to perhaps then lead onto some bedroom olympics. Just like that guy who got seduced by the girl in the hot pants, He's not complaining as he's peeling them off her either. That said, there are some useful elements of self improvement and mastery that are taught in PUA. How to understand the needs of a person you are interacting with, from their speech, body language and eye contact etc. All important aspects to empathising with another human being. These are also tools you use in RTR as well. However, PUA will often exploit signs in women they are interacting with in order that they become more compliant with them for sex. Are these tools unique to PUA? No, they can be found in all kinds of mastery classes in business and self improvement. They can also be taught by parents too. All said and done, I certainly sympathise with the guy that uses PUA, since the antics of a lot of women (especially hot pants woman) are rarely held to the same sort of scrutiny and men are just told to always have 'good' intentions. I just don't believe PUA will attract the more virtuous woman in the long run (that comes from xp too). But by all means sift the wheat from the chaff from some of the tools PUA can teach you, but try not to get too carried away by the seeming positive reaction you may get from some women. Some of them you will want to avoid, even if your dick is saying otherwise.

https://freedomainradio.com/donate/ You just change the donation tier accordingly. Either by canceling your existing one and/or starting a new one. You are limited to the donation tiers availabe on the linked page above.

And there was me thinking 'cute and funny' was enough for them..