cherapple

All I want for Christmas are conversations about reality. There's a listener convo somewhere about gift giving. Stef said, if you want to preserve certain relationships, and those people want to exchange gifts, keep giving gifts. (Family members of the caller became angry when she told them she didn't want to exchange gifts anymore.) It was one time when I didn't like his answer. Not because he said anything wrong, but because I wanted him to say, "No, you are perfectly free to stop giving gifts, if you don't want to give them." He didn't say the caller wasn't free, but he recommended meeting other people's preferences, if those people are important to you. For the past few years, I've only given gifts to my kids. I am not interested in continuing the farce of family relationships and "giving." I'm much happier and more relaxed around the holidays now that I'm saying "No" to false obligations, empty conversations, and material giving. My kids want gifts, so I give to them, and then I work on my end of the conversation part with them.

It's up to the receiver of the action to decide whether it was really "for them." Did the receiving person ask for it? Did they really want it? Did the person claiming to act in the another person's interest ask about, or hear, what the other person wanted? If not, then they can make no claims to doing it for the other person. If yes, and they know without a doubt what the other person wants, then yes, there is such a thing as "I did it for you." But then it wouldn't need to be said. Only a person who wants to hide that they are acting in their own interest feels the need to say, "I did it for you."

Very well said, Lians. The "unschooling community" is rife with confusion, irrationality, in-fighting, and double standards. That said, it was the first source I found for community support and some tools for improving my relationships with my children, before I found the supporting "communities" of liberty and, soon after that, philosophy. It's not all negative, but without philosophy (as we've seen in recent cases) it can get pretty insane.

I've had dreams about sex with women, and I am not gay. I've had dreams about sex with myself (sex between twin or triplet women). Before I began working on self-knowledge, the majority of the dreams that I remembered (I don't remember them often) were about sex with either men or women, most often in the form unrequited or unconsummated desire, from which I awoke feeling intense pain, sadness, helplessness, and loneliness. I used to feel a lot of shame about these dreams. Now I see them as my unconscious trying very persistently to tell me I was dissociated from myself, and that the answer was to not to connect with another person, but to connect with myself. The OP's dream reminds me of one that I had about sex with a "twin," after which the woman got up and violently attacked a third look-alike woman, whom I couldn't see, but in the dream I "knew" was another look-alike. I felt betrayal and confusion about the fact that the violent part could make love to me (be so gentle, kind, and loving), and then in the next moment violently attack and beat someone else (another part of me), whose screams I could hear, but I could not get to her to stop the attack. Sex dreams aren't always literally about sexuality, although they could be. My parents definitely gave me a messed up, violent experience of sexuality from the moment of my conception and birth. Perhaps my experiences with loving, self-attacking, and self-rejecting dreams will be helpful to you, Greg1, or to someone else.

Since therapists have limited availability, this is a world-wide forum, and only some therapists are willing to work over the Internet, I think their specific names are best shared by word-of-mouth. No one else here sees my particular therapist, she only works locally, and I don't know anyone else here who is local to me and her. The most useful information to share here would be the principles of finding a good therapist, and there are already several posts and podcasts about how to do that. Start with the therapist directories here: http://www.goodtherapy.org/ www.psychologytoday.com http://www.selfleadership.org/ Talk to friends who are in therapy, and in general, just start calling therapists and talking to them. These two simple actions over time will work like a funnel. A choice that may seem overwhelming and like it has a million possibilities will eventually whittle itself down to "the one" (or "the one for now"). The most important things to find out are how much self-work a therapist has done, how much self-knowledge do they have, have they and do they support their own child self, and will they support yours?

The last thing he said to you on your birthday was "fool." Perhaps that's a "joke," or some kind of language between (male?) friends that I don't appreciate or understand, but my question if someone called me "fool" would be to wonder why I'd want to be friends with a person who called me names when I asked a genuine question. How did you feel about being called that?

I don't know of any current unschooling podcasts that are still in production. It's interesting that there have only been a handful over the years, and that they didn't last very long. The Unschooler Experiment: http://www.unschooler.com/category/the-unschooler-experiment/podcasts/ Of course "School Sucks" (although it isn't specifically about unschooling): http://schoolsucksproject.com/category/podcast/ There used to be one called "Humans Being," but it looks like the creator removed it from the internet. Read anything by John Holt, Alfie Kohn (who does't actually support unschooling, but his writings are popular with unschoolers), or John Taylor Gatto. At the risk of collectivizing and generalizing (I know there are a few unschooling parents here who post on the boards and listen to FDR), unschoolers can be irrational and acting-out of their histories because they don't have (and like most people, don't want) philosophy and self-knowledge. My advice, if you want examples of rational parenting and education of children, is to stay right here.

To clarify, that would be your parents attacking you, and you internalizing the attack as if it were your own, but no one is born wanting to attack himself. Even when we do "wrong," curiosity is the solution, not self-attack. Self-attack usually creates more of the thing it's trying to stop. "Ernie" sounds like "earning." Bert sounds like "burden" (?). I also noticed that Bert is helpless against the attack, which is probably how you feel against the self-attack (which you've been trained to do by your parents) and being a "burden" to your parents. I'm no expert in dream interpretation. Those are just some thoughts.

"Internal Family Systems Therapy" by Richard Schwartz. (Suggested with tongue only partly in cheek.)

The task of achieving self-knowledge does often make you feel worse before it makes you feel better. As you begin to experience your depths, you see more clearly your past shallowness, and the shallowness of others, and you may feel more isolated. This is the good news: That you are socializing with yourself on a level like never before. Over time, you will draw those to you who want to do the same. So goes the theory. In practice, you may be experiencing the true pain of the isolation that was forced upon you as a child, the pain of the wound, so that you may heal it. Are you "isolating yourself," or are you feeling the pain of "having been isolated," or of being isolated in the present by those around you who don't want to do the work you're doing?

What is your relationship with yourself and your level of self-attack? If you assume that every character in a dream is an aspect of yourself, both Bert and Ernie would be you. Perhaps two child parts? I see a war between loving and attacking yourself.

I've heard that the market for vitamins was created with the advent of food processing. Manufacturers needed something to do with all the nutrients they were removing from foods. Thus the vitamin industry was born. If that's true, it's another case of breaking people's legs and then crying, "Look at the good we're doing for you," when they hand you a crutch. It's better to just eat whole foods.

Was there anything that you did that you loved doing, but your parents told you was a "worthless waste of time"? What are you already doing, and might there be a way to make money from it?

I've been going twice per week for about six months, but I've also done every other week. There are a lot of factors that go into the decision of how many sessions I schedule per week, including financial, emotional, my present relationship with myself and with my therapist, life events, goals, etc. There is no objective sweet spot to how much therapy I seek. Maintaining a consistent commitment to growth in my relationship with myself is the most important factor. The means to that end ebb and flow.

Brian0918, I just noticed that your avatar is a picture of Atlas. Therein lies the answer to your question: "What is the purpose of blaming parents?" I would reword the question: "What is the purpose of placing responsibility on the shoulders of your parents?" In order to allow your child self to shrug.

First of all, I want to say that I'm really sorry for the hell hole of a life that your parents gave you. What you describe is godawful insanity, which no child should ever be exposed to, or forced to endure. Second, healing from it will come with checking your conclusions. All of them. One by one. Slowly and gently, and in as much time as you need to do so. "I've come to the conclusion that my feelings are out of control." Your parents and your childhood were out of control. Your feelings were and are a rational, sane response to hell. "I tightly clamp down on them." Your parents tightly clamped down on them. They attacked your feelings. They didn't respond to them or you. They didn't take you into consideration at all, or treat you as important to their choices and decisions. They ignored your feelings and neglected you. You doing so to yourself now is just a "skill" you learned in order to adapt to and lesson the impact and terror of what your parents put you through. You have every right to hate your parents, and the world. It makes sense that you would. It is not a problem with you. It is a healthy response to how you were treated. "I don't know what I should feel anymore.... I am paralyzed with thoughts and indecision." There is no "how you should feel." You feel what you feel, and now you are free to feel and talk about it. Posting here just the beginning. Have you seen a therapist? If not, find one and just start talking. Find people who will listen and who want to hear about you. Most of all, listen to yourself. Write, journal, talk. Do now what you couldn't, or weren't allowed to do, as a child. That is how you undo the paralysis.

Read Alfie Kohn's book Punished By Rewards.

Literally, nothing and no one, since adulthood. In practice, the wounds and scars I carry, and — with gentle, consistent, and determined effort and attention — the time it takes to heal. What is it for you?

Is the fantasy intrinsically motivated play, used as a tool for learning about reality? Are there reality-grounded adults who engage the child in exploration and discussion about this play? Or is the fantasy imposed upon the child by an adult who wants him to accept it as truth?

There was a Sunday show in which someone called in about changing his name and Stef gave his thoughts about it. What are your feelings around your birth or given name? What are your feelings about the people who gave it to you, and called you by your name throughout your childhood? What personal identity do you associate with your name? Is it really who you are, or is it an identity given to you by family? Do you want to change your name in order hide from or reject FOO? If so, why is that important to you, and what do you hope to accomplish? If you feel fear, anger, disgust, sadness (or whatever you feel) around your given name, what information does these emotions provide? You may not be doing this, but in rejecting your given name, do you reject the pain of self-knowledge, your history, your emotions, and ultimately yourself? As always with self-knowledge, the question is not, "Is changing your name right or wrong," but "Why do you want to?"

By "socialize," most people mean "propagandize." John Taylor Gatto gives all kinds of examples of how he helped children break out of the public school matrix, even while he and they were in it. He also tells all kinds of stories about successful people who quit or decided not to go to school. I don't know whether these stories are in the videos because I haven't listened to them all yet, but I read several of his books years ago, and I've seen him speak several times. It sounds like you are already convinced, but if you can gently and slowly bring your wife over to the side of righteous anger (which Gatto is good at expressing), you might be able to get her to re-examine her motivations and the experiences that she wants to give your son. Will she listen to or watch YouTube videos? Family pressure can be tough, especially when they are afraid of, or feel threatened by, your choices. Ultimately, the choices and responsibilities yours, you can state them assertively and without explanation — unless they ask genuinely kind and curious questions — and they can be left to handle their own discomfort.

As a child of parents, you are never responsible for them. The tables do not turn, and your parents do not get a pass, because you grow up and become an adult like them, capable of taking care of things. No matter how old you get, and no matter how old your parents get, they are — and always have been, since the dawn of your existence — adults who are responsible for themselves. That responsibility includes, most of all, processing their own childhood history. You weren't there for that, and you never can be. You parents might tell you about it, and you might want to understand it, but it is information, and not an excuse for bad actions. Whatever pass you allow to your parents, you will allow to yourself, and history will repeat. (What James said.)

For myself, I would say that my family gave me almost no secondary benefits to motivate me to stay in the matrix, so breaking out, when I finally did — which involved finally feeling the incredible pain of being given so little, and of having so much potential stolen from me — was not much of a stretch or sacrifice. When I realized that I might be able to recover, discover, or reawaken some of my potential, the pain of staying in the matrix became greater than the pain of getting out. The cost of staying in the matrix is dissociation from the self. The benefit of getting out is self-connection. When people choose dissociation, their pain is suppressed and likely lifelong, but they are surrounded by people and have the illusion of being worthy and belonging. Self-connection, on the other hand, is a gift. You meet and begin to surround yourself with other self-connected people who don't want to live in delusion. The pain felt while in the matrix becomes a valuable signal and tool for breaking out and getting happy.

The School Sucks Project is doing a series called "The Best of John Taylor Gatto." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWRqZrCMqbA&feature=share&list=PL8v6e5jkrm1FvaQv7GuZe41o4fPfreV0O

Aww, thanks. I hope you found something useful.