MysterionMuffles

So I typed into Google: Scientific proof that God exists and found this article. http://realtruth.org/articles/070601-006-teog.html Naturally, I felt sceptical and wanted to back down from reading it in its entirety. What was I afraid of? That I will start believing in God again? TRY ME!!! I decided to read it anyway and what I found was just a lot of merely interesting scientific anecdotes. To his credit, I find the clock one interesting as I always did wonder how clock makers measure a solid second. But I found the next section about evolution being debunked to be quite condascending. And of course an onslaught of non-answers...my attention waned horrible and I could not read word for word after that. So to anyone with a better attention span than me, please tell me where if it all does this guy empirically proves that God exists.[^o)]

Alright, so I had the conversation again with my mom...I asked her to finally answer the question about how she felt about me being Atheist and she said that she was disappointed. I said, let's explore that and why she feels that way...I can't tell, but was this another dodge tactic? She basically went on about how statistically, people who don't believe in God are cursed to endure trouble like a coworker of hers whose wife had to get a leg amputated, and a lot of other crap happened to him for being arrogant, but then all of a sudden after much heartache...he believes in God now. I am this [ ] close to start saying that I believe in God again because he spoke to me in a dream. Ya know, just to mess with her. Be all like, "yeah I had this dream where I was in Hell getting tortured, but God's giant hand reached down and grabbed me out. He said, 'if you don't want to suffer this fate, you must believe in me again.' And so I tried my hardest to wake up, but he said, 'you cannot unless you agree to believe in me again. Otherwise you shall never wake.' Then I told him that I will, just so I can wake up. When I woke up this morning, I thought 'hah! sucker I still don't believe in God!' But while I was awake, his voice returned in my head and threatened to kill me where I lay if I chose not to keep my word." Hm...I didn't want that to be so fatalistic, but that sounds pretty accurate to God's nature anyway. Then I would start utilizing my repressed need to be an actor by convincing my parents that God actually talks to me on a daily basis and telling them what he wants me to do, and what he wants my parents to do. "You know, God told me that if you don't support the novel I'm writing, it won't get published and that you will doom yourself out of millions of dollars I would have shared with you." "You know, God told me that you should stop going to church, and instead spend the noon hour eating lunch with your kids, and actually communicating with them. He's happy with your devotion all these years that it's enough now." "You know, God told me that you need to apologize for the bad things you did to me as a kid, or he will give me the okay not to visit your deathbeds or even go to your funerals." I digress of course because I want to stay consistent with my virtue of truth: that I have become a more honest and better person since I've become an Atheist, a concept that my mom fails to fully grasp.

I'm confused :S what does that mean?

Oh wow...I've fallen victim to many of these petty non-arguments from trolls online all my life. Mostly in the video game world.

exactly, it's not entirely correct because it is just a theory. It would only sound logical to the common populace because at the surface, it sounds believable. My point was that evidence of proof didn't require the equal correlation of logic AND evidence, rather that there may be things that are logically sound, but don't neccessarily hold up once evidence is provided. And I was just wondering if anyone has other or better examples akin to mine. As for the tree falling in the forest...of course it makes a sound. It's not completely dependant on a receiptient hearing it to validate the existence of the sound.

I was watching Stef's video about philosophically disproving God, and in the process he talked about how to prove empirical facts. Essentially, for anything to be provable, it must first be logically consistent, but must always be backed by evidence. In Evidence vs Logic, evidence always wins and someone in the Youtube comments asked what he meant by that. I'm quite proud of my response, which was this: It is logically consistent to believe that music is the absence of silence because if instruments produced no sound...it'd just be silence. However, there is empirical evidence that silence plays an essential role in music. There's silence between the beats and notes, and each instrument, however briefly, will drop out to highlight the accompanying instruments around them. Furthermore, many compositions include brief breaks of silence between sections, so the logical theory that music is the absence of silence becomes void. I said it much more simply in the comments section, but you get the idea. Half a minute of thinking deeply to provide such an example produced this argument of mine, and now I am wondering if anyone else has examples of logically consistent theories that are trumped by empirical evidence.

Poor kid. Comes to show that bullies are victims too. Hence they're bullies.

I wanted to post this topic here in Parenting because I feel like taking care of an elder is almost the same as taking care of a child, especially for one who is losing a lot of their independance and requires a lot more assistance to get around. If it should be elsewhere, please move it if you can, or you can tell me to respost it there before deleting it here. Now a problem with my posts is that you might as well be reading a novel, so I will try my hardest to keep this as short as possible. My grandmother suffered up to 2 or 3 strokes and 5 falls causing head injuries in the past 4 years. She has lost a lot of strength in her legs and requires a walker to move around the house, and also requires assistance going up and down the stairs. She hasn't had a problem yet of nearly falling from the stairs because she holds firmly onto the railings, but of course for safety reasons someone needs to be there to make sure she keeps her balance, even if it is hands off guidance. Also due to the numerous head trauma she has endured, her reasoning skills, ability to hear and comprehend, as well as her short term memory have been greatly affected. She has no problem retelling me stories of her past, but I can sometimes feel like a broken record having to re-explain to her the same things over and over again in a matter of 5 minutes (where my parents went out to, why no one is picking up the phone at another family member's house, why it's too early to go upstairs in the day etc...) and after the first 10 times, I start to get annoyed. Now here's the part that absolutely gnaws away at me emotionally. I know that she is now highly dependant on us to help her out, but sometimes we may have that narcissistic tendancy to feel like it's not worth answering her pleas for help. As if whatever we're doing at the moment is more important than something as simple as prepearing a meal for an old lady or refilling her water bottle. It just feels like such an inconvenience sometimes that we can't do much around the house on our own time when she's constantly begging and pleaing for a menial request to be fulfilled. I know deep down in my heart that it is not neccessary to get riled up about video game time, writing or reading time, or anything else getting interrupted by my grandma's menial requests--but holy hell, it does take a toll on your patience! Since she's bound to one spot of the house all day, she has created this baggage system (seems symbolic in a way...) where she has a lot of useless crap tucked in reusable grocery bags that she keeps by her seat. I mean, the stuff at the surface of her bags includes stuff she does use often such as prayer books, all these little holy trinkets she likes to set at the coffee table to create a makeshift altar, rubbing medicines...but other than that there's a lot of stuff that never sees use in the light of day, but she obssesses over them constantly. She always freaks about a missing crucifix pin, a certain piece of jewelry she doesn't even wear but likes to keep in her baggage, and any other imaginably useless item you know she doesn't really need--and so when she scours through her bags tirelessly for that 50th missing rosary (even though she only uses one), not only is she breaking her back from bending over all the time, but also causes us some deal of stress when she doesn't leave us alone about these useless missing items that we can never seem to find. Furthermore, I feel a lot of angst towards my family, particularly my dad and the aunt of mine who usually takes care of her in the early mornings at late nights. Since I'm underemployed, I take up the responsibility to take care of her during most of the day for about 12+ hours since no one else can in that time. I feel bad for my aunt because sometimes I have to wake up to her screaming at my grandma, nothing hurtful in terms of put downs, but kind of like forced lessons on how to behave and ways that she can be less inconvenient to my aunt. I usually call her out on that (even though I have my moments of anger, but we'll get to that in a moment), and tell her to calm her ass down. She says that my grandma just has trouble hearing, so thats why she feels the need to yell, but I cannot excuse that because there's a lot of annoyance and frustration behind the yelling. When I get moments she's not listening to me correctly, I make sure she's making eye contact and that I say things as slowly as possible so she can comprehend, but my aunt...oh man...so quick to anger. BUT I CAN'T BLAME HER! She's the one who usually sleeps next to her at night, and since she's been sick this week, I told her to stay home while I take care of that for her, and DAMN! You really cannot get uninterrupted sleep next to my grandma as she wakes up every 2 hours to piss, and then when it comes to morning she is constantly begging to go downstairs even though there isn't any rush to go down in the first place. Obviously sleeping early helps soften the blow a little but anyways... My aunt is a brave woman to take on such a task, but on the flipside, my dad is a complete kunt. He berates her for every little request she makes, mocks her loneliness when it comes to wanting to constantly phone other family members to come over. And some of the times my grandma had fallen down, my dad has the audacity to yell at her for nothing using her walker properly, for not holding in her urine which may have caused her to slip, and the one time I woke up to her calling after a fall, my foot was asleep, so I was in panic and trying to explain that I couldn't pick her up yet because of this. My dad took this as an opportunity to wake up himself and come to her room just to yell at her for the way she doesn't use her walker properly. He is such an inconsiderate...ARGH!!! I can probably make another topic about him, but in essence, he is just not very helpful when it comes to my grandma. I hate the man, I believe he is an evil sociopath...no amount of church going can clean his slate. But again I digress, I don't want to get too off topic. So my aunt and my dad in conjunction kind of destroyed my grandmother's self confidence. After her first stroke, and when her body wasn't too weak yet, she would often attempt to get from one spot to another in the house without the use of her walker. She showed huge obvious signs that she wanted to get along well without the walker, but the two of them would always yell at her in fear that she would fall again...which is counterintuitive since stressing her out like that probably made it more likely. Yet I could see clearly that she WAS capable of getting around with the walker, she was able to use other support and some brief instances where she was able to walk without support at all. And I will be eternally hateful for how they discouraged her from continuing physiotherapy (I dont buy for a second that it was her choice to refuse continuing) because she had the potential to regain more than adequate use of her legs. There's even all these other stretches and exercises in case of a fall that the hospital gave us sheets and pamphlets on that have been left neglected...so she is underprepared if anything were to happen to her when none of us are around, thus dooming her to a slow a demise on absolute dependance on us. If you're still reading this, thank you for very much for your time and patience because believe it or not, this is a lot shorter than I intended , and since you did read this far you probably do have some degree of patience that you can help grant to me. There IS the problem with my self of course. Over the years, even before her strokes, I had always had a lack of patience and anger management when it came to her. That short fuse only got shorter when she first returned from the hospital and it has been my life's work since 2009 to work on my internal issues. You would not imagine the vile things I would say to her and how brutishly I would treat her. I am ashamed to even get into great detail about it, but let's just say that thankfully, I've never resorted to physical violence, but that doesn't excuse the full out yelling and put downs I used to unleash on her. And sometimes on occasion I still do, but those moments are far and between now. Like, getting mad at her used to be a daily thing for me, but once I started recognizing how ugly aggression looks like from my dad and aunt, and getting in touch with my own conscience, I've been trying to turn a new leaf. I like to play cards with her, have conversations with her and overall do things for her without a moment's hesitation MOST of the time. As honestly as I can put it, 85% of the time I warm and compassionate with her. Lately I've also been practicing the art of endless apology for any moments I do get irritated with her, but I know those apologies shouldn't have to exist. I know that I don't have any control over my aunt and my dad, so I have long stopped caring about changing their reactions to my grandma and recognized that the only person's whose reactions I can control are my own. I just wish I could stop reacting to her impatiently and FULLY understand, not just intelligently, but emotionally that she may not have long left to live, and it would be quite crappy for her last days on this Earth to be met by undeserved scorn. She can die today, or 10 years down the road, either way, she deserves all the love and respect she can get because she has not only raised 10 children of her own, but some of her children's children also. She is a kind and compassionate woman, who hasn't really been mean all that much, just very annoying sometimes due to senile ignorance. I wish to improve in my latest endeavor of caretaking and would love to ask for your input, FDR. How do I keep my anger in check? How can I help certain family members to do the same? What else can I do to make her overall experience of life better?

UPDATE: so the podcast that was supposed to be 2250 Life After Politics is just simply reversed with 2251 - Dealing With Toddler Tantrums in terms of titling and subject matter.

Implementing RTR is tough because people are so damn wrapped up in externalizing their insecurities. People who blame the victim for the way the victim feels usually hold onto a lot of self resentment that they haven't taken care of internally. Does your mom seem like a happy person in her day to day life?

What do you guys think we should do, as cosumers, to drive the market to a better direction? Boycott high end game companies unless they really care about their customers? Focus more on the independant games being released? 'Cause man, I really thought THQ had the best business model with their UFC franchise. After each game, they would create online surveys and forms where people can give feedback on their games. They were even prompted to share what they think could improve the next year's release of UFC. THQ actually listened, and the games did get better every year, exponentionally at that! But it's just too bad that only 3 UFC games were made before THQ got bankrupt due to a lack of sales, which I find astonishing. Was this a bad business plan, or was it just not executed well enough to consumer expectations that caused it to fail? Now UFC has signed a deal with EA Sports, even though Dana White had explicitly said that they're assholes, and dogged on him for the idea of making a UFC game, claiming that UFC "is not a real sport." And remembering the awkward ass controls of EA MMA, I'm kinda nervous about the UFC game would turn out if they don't at least take the great mechanics THQ already instilled.

Damn, that is some serious story you got there. I thought you were raised well being free to figure things out on your own, and I resonated when you said you couldn't believe people could really believe in Christianity, or try to. I think all my life that's all I did, I TRIED to believe in it, but my BS radar could never stop going off any time I went to church. But yeah I was caught off guard when you started talking about your dad abusing your sister and leaving your family, that's kinda messed up...did you still manage to have a relationship with him despite of that? How did that even work out? I'm guessing you had it going before you found out about everything, then again I might have read it all wrong, so correct me if I did. What I am curious about though is what your comedy act consisted of. Was it politically driven like Colbert and Stewart?

I didn't see bullying that way, thanks for that perspective. I knew it had something to do with a lack of self worth, but I often forget about external approval that contributes to that to some degree. Hmm, as for seeking him out, I dunno...that seems to be a lot of trouble to go through, but how worth is it? And what would I do? Go back to my old elementary to see if he even work there anymore? Track him down if he doesn't then just say "hey, you probably won't remember me, but you were my 4th grade teacher. You did x y and z and I think that was pretty shitty. Do you still do it? Have you stopped? Why? Can I tear your beard off your face?"

oh thanks

It was actually thanks to someone in the chat that I was able to catch this debate live. [View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvbHJGS6Fds] I wonder what everybody's thoughts are on this particular debate. Without getting too much on the details--I'm relistening to it because I got distracted a few times during it--I thought it started off pretty challenging and enticing. SCG brought up some really tough points to counteract, but it got to the point where he wouldn't even let Stef answer. From what I remember, the debate became more about derailing each other to different topics that had little to no correlation with the main topic of how a Free society would deal with the rape and murder of a woman. Again, I gotta relisten to it to digest it properly, but I wonder what everyone else's thoughts were about the arguments put forth, as well as the interaction as a whole.

if I could go back in time, I would call him out on the BS. More stories of corrupted teachers coming soon! Been thinking about it lately and I'm starting to remember far too many examples where teachers were exercising power over my peers and my self.

obliterate homework, and teachers can have more hours to actually do some teaching

I've been reading the Bible and she asked how it's been going, so I told her the truth. I was disgusted by it so far and how much killing and lying God has done halfway through Genesis. She would go on to say that the New Testament he's a better God, "but the fact remains mom, he did commit a lot of atrocities! It's inconsistent." Her: If God doesn't exist, who made all this? (motions to the space around us) Me: Mm...construction workers? Just kidding, but let's say God DOES exist, then he's EVIL!!! Her: If you don't believe in God, then what do you believe in now? Me: Reality. If he's all powerful, then why does he ,et people act badly? Her: He gave you free will, you have your own mind. Me: Yeah but why doesn't he do anything about all the bad shit happening in the world? Why doesn't he intervene anymore? Her: He's not supposed to babysit all of us, there's too many of us. Me: Still. If we're made in his image, and we have the capacity for evil, then so does he. If he's real where the hell is he? Her: *Points up* Me: You really believe that still? We've been on an airplane before, there was nothing but clouds! And anyone who's gone further only sees space! ---Yeah I'm probably making her sound more stupid than she actually was about it. If I could rewrite this without bias, it would still be just as retarded anyway. Let's fast forward to the end shall we?--- Me: I have one question that really splits into two. How do you FEEL about me TELLING you that I'm Atheist? And how do you feel about me BEING Atheist? Her: Well...as long as you don't anger God. So stop posting bad stuff about the Bible on Facebook. NON...ANSWER!!! Anyways yeah that's how that kind of went. Fortunately we haven't argued since, we still get along great as she's helping me learn how to prepare meals and whatnot. I think I have a great relationship with her, but when religion is thrown into the mix, things get confusing and stupid because religion is confusing and stupid. So how did your RTR go? Do you really have dread when you see your mom's name show up on your phone?

Hmm one thing that DOES bother me about the Brony movement is the military bronies... It's really weird for me to know that paid murderers (maybe not all of them see the light of combat but...) who watch a show about peace and love. To me, I think that rouses some psychological concerns unless they're able to make the distinction between the difference between the State in reality, and the "State" in the MLP universe which is almost like a Utopia not built on war amongst surrounding nations.

Little update: I came out of the closet to my mom. About being an Atheist that is, since it's like the new gay. What an interesting conversation that was...

Arguments are inevitable either way, but yeah as the guy said above, maybe it's only resolved for you. That is a horrible history, dragging the mother by her hair?! Man...just wow... I don't have much to say except a lot of sympathies for her history and your own so I don't want to bog down my post with too many responses to each sentence you've made, instead I'll just say: Give her space to be herself. And when you get into an argument, focus on practicing RTR. If she has wronged you in some way, you tell her how you feel about it and why. But on the other hand, if it's something you did that causes the argument, open your ears wide as Dumbo's and be very curious as to why she is offended by what you have done. Really take the time to question her like a lawyer and dig deep into the argument to see why she's holding resentment. It won't neccessarily root back to her past, that's usually a given, but most resentments we hold are caused by a heavy fiction we create around one little interaction. I'd like to go so far as to ask: how DO you guys argue? Is there a lot of name calling, blaming, yelling? etc

oh...that was an easy way to find them lol. Damn, swearing is prohibited for real? I think it should be revised to no swearing at others, because many times I've seen swearing used but as extentions and fillers to the current mood of the message. Not particularly useful or wrong, but still something that occurs just 'cause.

In that case I'm not quite sure there are written rules per se, just common sense. Like don't troll or be abusive.

Don't know if it's still written anywhere, but I did a quick search and something from way back in 2007 showed up. This thread in particular: http://board.freedomainradio.com/forums/t/7382.aspx?PageIndex=1 But if you want to listen to a podcast about the rules and how they were broken and dealt with in the past, here they are: http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_752_Board_Attacks_Part_2_Mythology.mp3 Part 1 seems to be missing in the feed, if anyone could provide why or if it was just a mistake in the listing, that'd be helpful.

would it be unethical for a kid to co-operate in such an act? because yes I know it's acting, but it is also a falsehood.