Drew.

I agree with neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel on this. It is the duty and responsibility of a parent to fundamentally provide two things for their children, unconditional love and to prepare their children to face the world (to become their own parents). To purchase everything a child ever wants without them working for it would circumvent necessary adversity to challenge and promote growth.

Just to add a bit to what you, Ramynking, were arguing in your initial post, the news has popped up with a recent incident of how economic ostracism has proven effect. Rachel Dolezal hasn't been able to find employment for quite some time after being exposed, and there is no universal database yet.

My rule of thumb is that if I am overwhelmed by the emotion, it is historical in nature. It might be appropriate for you to feel some degree of guilt/shame/embarrassment, but if you're feel helpless, trapped, and greatly shamed then it's likely historical.

Ha, I've had a lot of experiencing working with self-attack. It is downright crippling. I've tried arguing and fighting against it. That would work in the moment, but it would be a temporary bandage solution, where the moment I let my guard down or made a mistake, the attack would arise again. I've tried just to accept it and let it attack me, but that's like letting a man kick you while you're down on the ground. Both of these solutions didn't work at all for truly resolving it. Instead, I tried to figure out what kind of value it was providing me. I do believe that every single defense we create and adapt is providing value in some manner, otherwise we would not have created it in the first place. Self-attack is not like an abusive person, because it is a part of you. Rejecting yourself never comes to any good, but neither does accepting the abuse that's coming from it. As weird as it sounds, the only progress that I have made with this stuff is when I have tried to love the self-attack--not for its actions but because it has helped in the past and because it is a part of me.

I am seconding the works by Robin Hobb. I've really enjoyed reading her stories. Her characters are really well developed and psychologically complex. I have gained insight into my self and my own experiences when reading her work. Discworld would also be a good series, too. I really enjoyed the Nightwatch subseries. The first three books in the Drizzt series were pretty good. About a good male drow in a brutal fem-centric society who escapes. Finally, the Lies of Locke Lamora was a thoroughly enjoyable read. I didn't read any of these books when I was a kid, but I know that they're books that I would have enjoyed then.

To become more of who were were born to be, as opposed to who trauma shaped us to be. To become more in tune with our nature (both our human nature and our individual natures), and therefore happier. To break free from trauma and restrictions to truly live a free life. To meet one's psychological needs for oneself. Self-knowledge is like bacon, it goes well with everything. If a person is investig so much time in the self-exploration process that they are not really living their lives... well maybe that is where they need to be. Maybe there is so much work for them to do in order to feel free to live their lives. If journaling is an act of avoidance of the real world, then it is no different than video games, drugs, alcohol, masturbation, endless work, over-exercising, and other addictions, and sorting that out appropriate requires more self-work.

And if you're spending so much time in self-knowledge work that you are neglecting other things, then clearly there is some self-knowledge to gain about why you might be doing that.

In my mind, what you have shared is conclusion-oriented thinking. We are taught that we should be happy/proud/loved/etc by the things that we accomplish. If we have accomplished nothing, then we will not receive that positive regard. If we lose what we have accomplished (even after a happy, successful life) it would still follow that that positive regard would be retracted. Also, this standard seems unreasonable to me. We always do what we believe to be best for ourselves based on the information provided. This standard is demanding prescience of you, which is entirely inhuman and therefore to achieve it would run against your nature as a human being--the thing that generates unhappiness.

It sounds like self-doubt to me. That's one of the trickier defense mechanisms that I've had to work on in myself. What does the "right move" for a choice even mean?

Honestly, I don't know. It's your life, and I don't know anything about it, really. Some questions that I would ask are, would this be a good marriage and relationship to bring children into? I would also ask myself, why do I want to have children? In any decision, there are positive and not so great motivations for pursuing it. To really be the best parent, it would be wise to uproot those not so great motives to provide more for any future potential children.

Well, if that's true, then patience would probably be the best strategy. Trying to pressure him into it will only backfire. But honestly, I don't know what the best course of action is here, nor what kind of threshold for patience and waiting is right/appropriate/what you have available.

I associate the avoidant-type with fear. If that's the case, I think that what he might have to face with the self-knowledge is frightening enough to him not to begin walking down that path. I could be wrong regarding your husband, though. Food for thought.

I wish I knew. I could get my parents and all of my childhood friends to journal and do therapy, and then we could reconnect with each other and have wonderful lives. Fundamentally, only if someone is really interested and passionate in this will they pursue it. That said, he might find his own spark and drive to go through the process, but it's fundamentally not something you can control. My friend told me about journaling and I found it useful, but never really got around to it until I was super miserable when I was 19 after having a week where I housesat at the neighbors. I felt so great then, and it was so jarring returning to the family home. Something was wrong, and I needed to fix it. I think the marriage will be limited by what your husband is capable of providing. Personally, I do not think that unconditional love is appropriate in adult relationships, and that is often what people seek and expect in marriages. Things can be pleasant. I have had plenty of roommates who have no interest in self-knowledge and exploration who I have had positive interactions with, but I never felt close to any of them. If you want more than what he can provide, it won't work.

Haha, what timing. I think that taking a break from dating and relationships is an important step for anyone, especially as they get their lives on track and process early childhood trauma. This break could prove to be fruitful. I know for me, having time to develop myself, become more secure, assertive, etc. has proven fruitful in all of my relationships, and especially so with the dating that I have done. My understanding is that a lot of the MGTOW movement is a reaction to the state that they perceive women to be in, which to be fair has some justification. Anecdotally, I saw one guy share on reddit that he would rather be alone than go from "relationshit to relationshit." I think a lot of the guys want to be in a relationship, except are fed up with what they have found to be available. I like the idea of MGTOW, men going their own way. I think that women should go their own way too. The opposite, in my mind, would be to need another person, and I think that relying upon others to satisfy psychological needs is inherently unhealthy. But, yeah. The MGTOW movement as it stands is inherently unsustainable. I imagine it's more of a strike for a lot of men than anything else.

I'm not purposefully living the MGTOW lifestyle, but I've been on my own for awhile. A period of that time, I was pretty broke and worried about food + housing. I think that downsizing is an important element to preventing something like that. A single guy doesn't need a home all to himself with four bedrooms, three bathrooms, etc. A simple studio apartment or sharing a place with other people would suit just fine. Especially if someone is poor, then living on one's own is a luxury. If you're own your own, then you're quite capable of taking on much more risk, as you don't have any dependents to worry about. If a man is poor and attempting to make it on his own, then there is a lot that is within his power to change that if he is dissatisfied. He fundamentally doesn't have to worry about making more money than what is required of him to provide for food and shelter for himself, which means that the threshold for success has dropped drastically. I think that alone might be manageable on part-time employment, in most places. With that extra time, he could educate himself, develop his skills, work more, or fulfill those additional tasks such as cooking, cleaning, etc. When I was in KCMO, I worked part-time. My rent + utilities was $325 a month, excluding internet. Food was cheap too. With that little bit of work, I could sustain myself while I dedicated myself towards other important tasks and projects.

Why is the answer to the question important to you? This rings of free will versus determinism to me, but I might be missing something here.

Does anyone have any new years resolutions that they would like to share? I know that for some people, they think that it is ridiculous. People don't often follow through on them, that the end of the year is just an arbitrary time to make such a commitment and is therefore somewhat meaningless. But I do see some value in them--if they were truly without value or purpose, then no one would do it and it wouldn't be a thing. With the ending of one year, an arbitrary starting/ending point based on the revolution of the earth around the sun, it is like one chapter closing and another one beginning. It offers a good marker for reflection. How did this year go? What worked this year? What didn't work? It's nice to have something to frame these events that have happened in a given period of time. Because I have traveled around so much, I have things that are grouped by destination. Parent's house. China. Alaska. Vietnam. Here. But I imagine that I'll soon find a place where I would like to stay for a long time, and then I'll no longer have that nice, clean dichotomy. The year might have to be the divider. I don't have any formal resolutions. I feel like I am already heading in the direction that I want/need to be heading, so my resolutions would basically boil down to "Keep doing what I am doing, 'cept harder." Most of it would be working on my health, both mental and physical. Keep journaling, keep exercising. Resolve more issues. Be more me than before; it's worked out well so far, and I expect and suspect that I'll fail at anything else that I try to do/be. What about you?

Yeah, I don't know. I do not think that there is a single factor, but a combination of factors that would contribute to something like that. Some people don't want to have children because they do not want to pay the prices and have the responsibility that is required to raise children right. Some people don't want to have children because they hate children. Some are anti-natal. Someone with a bad upbringing? Well, it could be that they feel a lack and do not want to focus their life on someone else. It could be that they remember what marriage is like from their parents and universalize it (which would be true for them and they would likely recreate without therapeutic intervention, whether that is self-induced or with a counselor). It could also be empathy, where they know that they will be a shitty parent and don't want to put a child through that. Based on what I have offered, it seems like intelligence would contribute to it.

I would definitely say that pride is a psychological need. I've found myself pushing through hardship in an attempt to do something that I could feel proud about so that I could feel good about myself. In that regard, I think that a lot of other people are similar, by seeking that promotion, that media collection, that nice car, that perfect family, that bank number, etc. Anecdotally, one friend that I had was someone who as very anti-children, and his parents were quite verbally abusive to him. I assume physically too, as there is a correlation between people being overweight and obese with physical violence and that entire family is fat. All the signs point to him having a rough childhood.

To add what was shared here, I think that a piece from something that I read earlier would be relevant here. What happens when a woman is labeled a slut? I think that some men might be specifically interested in that, but to "quality" men this labeling of her as a slut would discredit her. If she is a slut, then she is probably diseased and unfaithful, which means that any man that seriously invests in her is going to get burned, potentially in more ways that one. Being called a slut discredits a woman. Men are called fags, and I think that this accomplishes the same thing, it discredits someone's sexual nature. A woman who is a slut is no longer a threat to a quality woman, while a man who is a fag is no longer a threat to a man who might be already competing for the attention and affection of a woman (or women).

The first session that I had with my therapist is when I fell in love with the process. We were doing the Internal Family Systems model, and we had explored some minor issue and resolved it that session (if memory serves me). First what was difficult was admitting that I needed therapy in the first place. Well, I knew that I did, but I thought that I could put it off until I was in a better place than where I was at. I had some good fortune, and began therapy sooner than I was expecting. When I reflect, I think that I should have sought it sooner, but that is just how life works out. Then what I found challenging were the issues that would come up, such as self-attack, self-doubt, self-distrust, etc. Because I was so thrilled with the process, I really dove into it. Immediately after my first session, I began trying to do the process that I did with my therapist in my journal. One of my friends at the time commented about how I journal so much. I didn't have a computer or television that I could distract myself with, so I literally had almost nothing to do except journal. This process was definitely not direct and linear in regards to figuring out what I wanted to do. It just kind of came to me one day, and my thoughts were pretty much, well, what else am I going to do?

I think that being a counselor is exactly the thing that I have always wanted to do with my life. Since I was a child, I always wanted to be a healer in some capacity, and I think that what I provide is a great and valuable service, and has the capability of tremendously helping an individual. In sort, I think that I have found what I like to do and might be able to offer something to help you get to what you want to do. Before I was a therapist, I was mostly an English teacher in Asia. I didn't enjoy the work all of the time. Sometimes, I taught in classrooms that were either public schools or structured similarly to public schools. Sometimes, I was a private tutor, and would meet my clients for a meal. Those were nice, although some of them could be quite tricky. English teaching was a way to keep me afloat. While I was being kept alive with this income source, I was journaling like crazy while meeting a therapist with some regularity. I was working on myself to learn more about who I was as a person, to separate who I was supposed to be from who I was contorted into through trauma and having to meet the needs of my parents (when they should have met their own needs, not used me in that manner, and provided for my own emotional/psychological needs). It took awhile, about four years of hard work and really diving in all the time, but then becoming a counselor just clicked for me. I don't think that the next job that you take will be something you are passionate about or something that you want to make a career out of. I highly recommend journaling and meeting regularly with a therapist to help figure out what you'll want to do more longterm (by figuring out what makes you happy and confronting and rejecting incorrect internalized beliefs). For this step, I would recommend something that you won't mind doing terribly much, pays enough to keep yourself alive and somewhat comfortable, and will give you time to introspect (once again, I highly recommend this if you're not already doing this). I realize that what I have shared is not a direct answer to your question, but hopefully with what I have shared, you can gain some perspective in which to make a better, more clear decision. The simple fact is that none of us on this board will have enough information to point you in one direction or another, and even if we had more information, there is no way of knowing how each of those scenarios would play out.

When I was growing up, there was a show on television called the Bernie Mac Show. It was a running gag that he would give his adopted niece's kids a whoppin'. This was supposed to be a humorous element of the show, and I think it speaks to how normalized striking children is among black communities. Though, I accept that this could be totally wrong, as where I grew up was particularly white, and if there was someone who wasn't European, they were either Latin or Asian. Edit: And as I think about it, there were plenty of shows that involved white families and child abuse, the Simpsons being one of them.

Yeah, I don't think it's silly to do something to avoid attack/criticism. It might be silly for you to do that now, but when you learned to do this behavior, it must have been devastating to be criticized about it. With what you have shared, I feel even more confident asserting that women wear make-up mostly for other women. Thank you for sharing.

I know that a lot of this conversation has been about using make-up to appear more attractive to men, but I have also heard that women apply make up and jump through all of the other painful fashion-hoops partially also for other women. Bruce, when you haven't worn make up, do you get similar comments from women? What about your friends who have been told these things, have these statements come from women? I know that guys do similar things in order to establish a hierarchy and henpeck amongst themselves. I was reading this book last night, and there was this really powerful quote that came to mind, "women are most responsible for the oppression of women in our culture." I don't truly know how much this might apply to our world today, but I think that it is an interesting perspective to examine.