Drew.

For one, I don't see any citations to the data that author is describing in the study. I'll try to give it a more thorough read later on. But, if there are no citations to other studies, that means that those other studies cannot be examined for validity, systemic error, and bias. In essence, this article is really suspicious. Edit: there does seem to be some references, but they're not very clear. There is a mention of a NICHD study, but no reference to the year, to the name of the study, or anything like that. I understand that this is a book excerpt, but based on the link posted, it would be inappropriate to make any conclusions, especially as it relies upon those other studies for the basis of some of the conclusions. If we cannot examine those previous studies, then we cannot be sure of the validity of what is being discussed in this one. Also, if we don't know what those studies are about, then we can't really counter them with other studies, if counters do exist.

I feel for you. It sounds like you're in a tough situation, regardless of your current feelings toward your father. There is the trope, that in a situation of great vulnerability like this, an abusive person/parent will turn over a new leaf and change their ways. He sounds like a monster. He sounds like a coward, too. I say this because he was abusing a child. He didn't go out and pick fights with people who were was strong as him or stronger. Now, when you are stating the truth of your experience and your (absolute lack of a) relationship, he simply cannot, will not face the truth. He's weak, and you are so much stronger. It sounds like you are experiencing a great deal of anger. I think that is appropriate and completely justified. I think that it would be wise for you to be aware that anger is an emotion that drives us to fight for change. I am going to guess, and I could absolutely be wrong here, that some part of you still wants to fight to change your father. I don't think that he will change. If he was capable of changing, he would have done it years ago. As I mentioned before, it sounds like he is afraid; he is too afraid to face the truth. If he cannot, will not face the truth, he will not change. It also sounds very much like the childhood that you had is also the emotional world and life of your father. He is deeply afraid, and he inflicted that fear onto you. You did not deserve that kind of treatment. The only thing that you deserved was his love, and he completely failed to provide that. I am guessing, because he doesn't love himself, and therefore he cannot love another person. I wish you the best. This is not an easy situation to be in.

I have wanted to add to this conversation, but at the same time, I haven't wanted to catch up on all of the content that has already been posted and discussed. I would like to share a different version of bigotry, which is the belief in something without evidence. It would be bigoted to say that all homosexuals are rampaging sexaholics. It would be bigoted to say that all asians are really intelligent. It would be bigoted to say that people who like chocolate ice cream are compensating for sexual deficits. In which case, BLM and notions of white privilege are inherently bigoted.

In my experience, there are two groups of parents who spank. Those that think it is a good and necessary thing--which would be those people that we described--and those who are ignorant and follow the conventional wisdom and see it as a last resort. The latter group is more open to change than the former.

Exercise is clearly beneficial and there is little contest over which exercise activities are best. Some strength based work and cardiovascular conditioning, along with supplemental work such as flexibility, mobility, balance, and coordination have very clear benefits. Which diet to follow is a bit more of a tricky question. I think that a healthy diet is heavily based in the consumption of plants, but I also think that meat is important. Plants, in general, are poor providers for lipophilic nutrients. The myelin sheaths that help our neurons fire and interact with each other rapidly are primarily lipid based. It's a little bit more difficult to navigate all of the scientific data, as a great deal of it is contradictory, biased, or whatever else.

I would imagine that someone who was in support of spanking would argue against and reject the set ethical standards of the scientific community in this instance. That it's just a bunch of sissies in white coats blah blah blah blah blah. I've had a few interactions like that with other people. My experience has been that they get more entrenched in their prejudice. In a public format, things are especially high stakes, as they have face to lose and may experience social rejection by those who they consider to be close that also support their position. The more they defend the position they are in, the more that they have to lose, the higher the stakes, the more that they must resist losing at all costs. It might be enlightening for the people who are witnessing the exchange, but I can't think of a single time when someone I had an exchange with like that has had any degree of humility, curiosity, or integrity

Dating is a learning process. It is racked with failure and mistakes. This is especially so when our histories and trauma glom onto our potential partners and mates. The failures of the parents become the expectations and standards of our partners. Our parents owed us nothing except unconditional love, and we expect that from our partners. This woman may be purposefully seeking to be aversive and adversarial in order to find someone who will finally love her unconditionally. Too bad that's not going to happen, as the only person who can offer that to her is herself. It sounds like the date was a failure, but it definitely wasn't a loss. I think that there is a lot that you can learn from your experience with this woman. What was it that attracted you to this woman in the first place? What were you hoping to gain or achieve by pursuing her? What fantasies, dreams, and hopes did you have that involved this woman? I know for me, it has been quite easy to find myself attracted to a woman, and then imagine what our committed relationship might look like, ten or twenty years down the road. During these times, I have pushed for a relationship when fundamentally there wasn't a strong enough foundation to support the love that I wanted to build.

Wow, what a powerful dream. I've recently resumed dream journaling and analysis. It is fascinating what the subconscious comes up with. I know that couple of months ago, I was trolling the internet looking for arguments. I had a lot of anger that I hadn't connected with, so I sought out places on the net where people were abusive so that I could be justified in attacking back. It never felt right when I was doing it, though. My conscience was just asking, "Why are you doing this? Why are you wasting your time with these people? These people are horrible human beings. Whatever need I am attempting to meet through this activity isn't being sated. Why do I feel the need to attack something?" There were some interesting elements to the dream that you had that I wanted to point out. I think that it is fascinating that this ten year old boy is far more competent than you at airsoft. To me, how the boy ends up dying rings very much as "live by the sword, die by the sword." It seems like your inner child is the victim of these fights and violence. Also, your adult self was able to easily brush off these attacks as minor annoyances. I think that's probably the healthier response to have, even though it certainly isn't the easiest to enact.

I also got ENFP, campaigner. It's so fascinating as my results have changed over the years. The last time that I remember doing this, I was INFP, and before that I was INFJ and maybe even INTJ if memory serves me. I totally agree you with that the questions are more valuable than the results. The questions are trailheads for self-exploration and analysis.

Another way that it could be counter-productive is when the person already has a deal of anxiety and increasing the anxiety through banter/attack/insults may overwhelm the person too. There is definitely a goldilocks zone for emotions in each given situation, where too little will prevent action and too much will incur the same.

Here's some chill/down-tempo stuff that I love:

Oh, okay. So, it's different than what I first thought. I think that it is still dissociative, as it still seems mood-altering. As I am sure that I have mentioned, dissociation has a time and a place. So, it's more like a more of a way to push away fear and anxiety. These two emotions are used to help us be wary of things that may lead to our death, among other things, and if one is dead already, then there is nothing to fear.

Personally, I don't like the idea of being "already dead." To mean, that seems like it is numbness and dissociation. They are valuable tools, but there is a time and a place. So often, people become numb and dissociated as their primary means of existence. In my experience, there have been two ways to deal with attack and pain. One is to numb myself to it, which fundamentally doesn't resolve it, and it leaves me open for a similar attack in the future if it hit home. The second is to explore it and resolve any insecurities and doubts that I might have about myself. The next time that I have encountered an attack like that, it is such a breeze to brush it off. I think that being dead on the inside or numb is a tragic thing. Someone might be hurt and not even realizing it. This pain will trap them, as you compulsively engage in behaviors to manage and minimize the pain. Last week, I injured myself when I was playing a game with a neighborhood child. I am so glad and grateful to have experienced the pain and still experience the minor pain and discomfort in my knee as it tells me that I have to be careful. If I could not feel this pain, I would likely damage my knee further. If someone cannot feel their sorrow and agony, they will damage themselves further. It definitely is a valuable skill to defend oneself from attack. I will agree with you there. I do not think that numbness and deadness is the best solution, though. It is incredibly easy, as we are all raised to do that.

That's an interesting correlation that you mention. Personally, I have found myself experiencing a greater risk tolerance as I have moved away from verbally abusive/banter based relationships. Sometimes the comments would strike home at any insecurities that I had. During those high risk, high stress situations, those insecurities and comments would come back to me and inhibit my drive and confidence to succeed.

I got into it at 19. It has really transformed my life, and I suspect and expect that you dedicate yourself to it, that your life will be transformed as well. Regarding addictions, the substance or activity serves to aid us in distracting and numbing ourselves from whatever ghosts that haunt our minds in our normal waking life. Using drugs is actually an isolating behavior, as it isolates us from our pain, insecurities, fear, rage, and sorrow. We feel better because we are split off from all of this that has troubled us. Additionally, I think drug usage implies that we believe we cannot resolve this pain that we experience, so we do the next best thing--to numb ourselves to it. The fear of your parents that you have mentioned would exactly be someone that you might want to escape from. How our parents treat us becomes how we believe the world will treat us. I do recommend exploring these issues deeper with a therapist. Friends and peers might be available, but fundamentally these people will be your equals in this realm. If you're hurting really badly, your friends will be hurting really badly too. It would honestly be like the blind helping the blind. At least, that was my experience at times. I wish you the best.

I have had that experience before. I find it easier talking about the shallow stuff with other people, but I have my limits, especially when the other person has no capacity to engage at a deeper level. From my perspective, frustration is an emotion incites further effort in an attempt to change a situation. You are trying to change these people. I have never had any success changing another person, but I have had success with helping people change themselves. From their perspective, you really are beating them over the head with this philosophy stuff. People resent the fact that they have to conform to your ideas--even if they are true. I suspect that they just agree to end the conversation, that is what I have done the past when someone is lecturing me. What a wonderful insight. I definitely think that may be in play here. I know I did it with my own family. I don't know the context of the call, but I do think that parents owe their children something. There is only one thing that is owed to everyone in the world, and that is love from their parents. Through this expression of love, we are fed, clothed, nurtured, sheltered, educated, etc. If you are seeking a relationship with them, well, they do owe it to you. Whether they can provide it is a different question. Whether it will be of any comfort, solace, or use is another question, because they owed it to you when you were a child. You're an adult now, and the past is in the past. It is through their love of you that you would internalize this love for yourself.

Oh, thank you Steve. As I am sure that you have guessed, this is all just a facade to impress you =]

I have always wanted to be a healer of some kind. I remember my at my elementary school graduation, I said that I wanted to be a doctor in order to help sick people get better. As I grew older, I realized that doctors provide people with prescriptions, and the medicine is what makes people feel better. So, I changed my trajectory towards pharmacy. As I learned about the modern medical industry and the focus on treatment versus curing and lifestyle changes, I felt like that wasn't the path for me. I still wanted to help people heal, but I was adrift regarding how I would help people to achieve that. I decided that through art I could deliver powerful messages that have been a boon in my life, and hopefully help people through that means. After awhile, some of my friends started to get involved in their own counseling practices, and I thought to myself that if they could do it and be successful, then I could too. When I decided to become a therapist, it didn't really seem like I had a choice, like I don't have anything better to be doing. Of course, I doubt that would be of much help to you, but this might. During this time, I was journaling and in therapy. I was learning more about myself and healing my pains. The more that I learned about myself, the more that I grew to love, respect, and admire myself. The more worth I thought that I had, the greater challenges I believed I could and was willing to face, the more success that I had, the more that it inspired greater challenges and pursuit into self-exploration. Was there anything that stood out to you when you were a child that you wanted to be or do? Why did you want to do that? Of course, I want to say that this pursuit takes time. It took me about four years of really diving into myself to discover that I was a therapist. I know that you've been working on this process for awhile now, so I will just say that it will probably blindside you in the future. Until then, why not enjoy the ride?

Right. I can understand that. To say something that brings up uncomfortable or unpleasant feelings for another person is not an attack. It definitely can be used as a form of attack, though, and many attacks do trigger such feelings. But, to call it attack--when it is not--and then retaliate is the initiation of an attack, like what these SJWs are doing. I don't think that comments such as "kill yourself" and name-calling are appropriate in a conversation. Those are clearly attack. Saying, "spanking is child abuse" and having someone who spanks their children hear that is not attack.

I definitely hear what you are saying. The parent to what I had said was talking about my own experience. I did start to universalize it, and maybe that was inappropriate. I know that I also have gained from people exhibiting that kind of behavior towards me, though in general my perspective is that I grew in spite of the attack, as opposed to inspired by the attack. To say something that evokes shame in another person is not necessarily an attack, though it is a commonly used attack tactic.

Will your children be children who have never been spanked? No. Can you repair the damage? Yes. With the efforts of you and your wife, you two can likely repair a great deal of it. I am currently writing an article about this topic, but I'll share the essence of it here. Adversity can be traumatic to children when it is too great for them to handle. Being hit by a parent is too great of an adversity and is traumatic. Parents help their children deal with adversity in respect to three periods of time: before adversity occurs, while adversity is happening, and after the event. In your case, you would have to help your children after the adversity has occurred. As they grow into adults, it becomes their responsibility to use the tools that you give them now and in the future to deal with what remains. I strongly recommend talking to Stef in the call in show, as Michael suggested. Stef has been a peaceful parent for years, and he can certainly give great advice regarding the practical aspects of it. I would also strongly encourage seeking therapy as well. If you spank your children, there are guaranteed to be other dysfunctional habits and behaviors that you model and potentially encourage in your children. If you sort it out in yourself, you can help your children sort it out for themselves and you can mitigate dysfunctional inheritance. Therapy doesn't have to be with me, but especially look for someone who is familiar with peaceful parenting and has explored their own childhood. Of course, I would be remiss not to suggest myself as well, as I do have experience working with parents who desire to become more peaceful parents. It's a great and wonderful thing that you are doing. I know that you feel bad about your actions, and I applaud you for having the strength and courage not only to face them, but that you admit that they are less than your standards for yourself and are working to become better.

If they're attacking me, the best that I can hope for is that there would be some degree of restitution for the attack. Of course, any skilled abuser would want to convince another person that they actually have something to offer despite the attack to keep the victim open and vulnerable. So very rarely is that true, and so very rarely does the abuser have a monopoly or exclusivity towards that knowledge, even if they do have something unique to offer. A person cannot be improved by being attacked. I cannot become richer by having my money stolen. Your inner wealth cannot be increased if it is pillaged. That said, if I there is something that I can gain from the interaction--such as figuring out which of their comments hurt me the most, whatever truths they shared--I'll definitely use them, but listen to the abrasive person no more.

Thank you for sharing what happened in your approach. We certainly cannot control the actions and feelings of another person, but our approach does have some influence. I do not see anything wrong with your approach. The response that you got from them woman was her own dysfunction. I am so terribly sorry that you had to experience that. That poor child, too. I am so glad and grateful that you explicitly told the child that what their mother was doing was not okay. Obviously, you mentioned that you had a desire for vengeance. That probably seeped through in your interaction with her, which may have helped aid the escalation of the situation. If you're in therapy, that would be a valuable topic to explore. If you're not in therapy, I would be honored to work with you if you are interested. Anger is so much more than a reaction to powerlessness, humiliation, etc. Anger is a motivating emotion, and yes, it is often a response to a negative event. You are right, though. Anger is often a tool that we use to distract ourselves from emotions that we don't want to feel. Likely, this woman wants to avoid the pain, shame, and humiliation of what happened to her as a child and what she is inflicting upon her own child. These people do not represent healthy relationships with anger. There is a time and place for it, and a level that is appropriate for each situation. I wrote an article about anger if you would like to check it out on my website (the link to it is in my signature). I wish you the best. Keep doing what you're doing. You'll get better at it. And what a rush it is! I lived in Alaska for a time, and intervened twice in two days. My dreams were incredible those nights.

For sure. I think that we understand each other. Personally, I am only going to listen to someone attempting to correct an idea of mine if I respect them, and if they do it in a considerate way, just to touch the parent topic.

For sure. If there is no respect, there is no reason to listen. I try to rely on people's better nature when I talk about things like this with them. "If you could raise your child without violence, without hurting them, wouldn't you want to do that?" I think it might be quite the sophistic question, as it would be really hard to answer "no."