tjt

I understand. And thanks for the sympathy. I feel comfortable with where this is ending. Plus I'm sure there are already unschooling and homeschooling threads. Thanks for sharing all your thoughts and hearing mine!

So you know, I am not a parent, I'm 26 years old and planning on becoming a parent with my partner in a few years when we are able to work from home. But I was a child once So I hope you don't discount my ideas.

Ok, but why are these subjects important? And why wouldn't a child be able to learn about this in an unstructured environment? For example, working with the dad one day in his wood shop would be a good math lesson (measuring, etc.). The oldest boy is also into building structures, like forts, lodges and workshops... building involves advanced mathematics, so he is obviously learning. He also sews his own clothing, which involves math. And the family often travels the world; maybe better than sitting in geo class for 45 minutes every Tues/Thurs. Also, why do we waste our time learning things that we don't end up using in our adult life? The purpose of unschooling would seem to me to support the child in discovering his own passions and determining what knowledge and skill is necessary to effectively live out these passions, and pursuing those skills and knowledge. There are dangers to unschooling, and that one call-in show was a prime example. I'm not saying unschooling is for everyone, but for the Martin family, these children are benefiting hugely. I've been working on building out a theory as to when unschooling can be most effective and when it is destined for failure. First, if the parents express any lack of commitment to the concept itself, it's probably going to fail. Like the caller, he admitted to being on the fence about it the whole time. He had commitment issues (which is interestingly what he was complaining about his daughter having as well)... and his daughter felt the repurcussion of it. The Martin family is guided by principles and believe 110% in the method and purpose of unschooling. If the parents aren't both able to stay at home most of the time with the children to facilitate learning and balance eachother out, there is a greater risk of failure. I believe the caller had a full-time job while his wife stayed at home. Both of the Martin parents have careers where they are able to spend a healthy amount of time with their kids. If the parents live a lifestyle of going to work, watching t.v. or playing vid games during their free time, going out to eat rather than preparing their own meals, and overall lacking a wide variety skills, interests and passions (other than those that make them experts in their own career) then unschooling is definitely doomed. (I got the impression that the caller was living a one-track kind of life, where he followed a simple routine where most of his time was spent at work or doing work -- nothing wrong with this by the way, just not good for unschooling). If the parents themselves are done learning or have become so focused in on one thing, then surely they will not be able to facilitate their children's learning. I would consider the Martin father to be a renaissance man or a "jack of all trades", and Dayna seems to be a passionate student of life regardless of her age. The parents must understand their critical role as a facilitator and a resource in their child's learning (partnership is what Dayna calls it). The caller seemed to view unschooling as a completely hands off thing where you leave the kid alone and wash your hands of any responsibility. The Martins, on the other hand, are fully aware of what their children are up to, genuinely curious and interested in what interests their kids, and consistently provide encouragement and support through the journey. When unschooling is successful, the child creates his own structure to accomplish his own goals. The parents are there as a trusted resource to the child. So structure is involved in a sense.

Great conversation, and I'm looking forward to what kind of feedback everyone gets. Just wanted to loop back real quick to the idea of involving children in the cooking process. I found this real-life demonstration of how it can be done, and it is just too awesome I think! Here's the blog post I stumbled across... Really cute pics included http://suburbanautistics.blogspot.com/2012/04/fried-zucchini.html This woman also has a post about a time that they served dinner with her boy's tonka truck toys and what not. Really fun ideas.

Yeah, I understand. I felt that same way for a while, but I gave it a lot of thought and really dug into her family life (she has blogs, youtube channels, etc.) and realized that she is not causing her children any harm whatsoever, she and her husband are doing an excellent job supporting them as they grow into adulthood. I think I felt so concerned at first because of the fear that society and my own parents had instilled; the fear of disorder and evil if children are allowed to live without an authorative structure. So I encourage you to think, in what specific way did you find her actions/principles/lifestyle to be extremely dangerous?

I couldn't agree with you more that Dayna did an excellent job at the other household. I nearly cried a few times watching the brother and sister react to being treated as equals in a partnership (my emotions were a mix of joy for the present and disappointment for their normal lives with their real mother). But, Tyler Durden, you can't leave me hanging on the word irresponsible... in what way is it irresponsible to take your kid to a professional peircing shop to have his nose peirced if he's been thinking about it for a while and you've discussed it with him? By the way, I don't really like peircings as I've always perceived them as a vanity issue or a cry for attention. But after watching that family event, and learning more about the Martin family (reading their blog and listening to Dayna's Youtube channel), I think Devon was expressing his artistic creativity. He is actually a blacksmith now, so I would understand if he has a natural affinity for metal and was acting on his passion. Also, I disagree that the Martin family had bad hygiene. They just aren't concerned with making it look like no one is living in their house. It's not like there was food rotting, mold growing everywhere, and people being sick all the time. The dog licked the dishes before they were run through the dishwasher anyways. It would be a whole other story if the dog was the dishwasher! In my opinion, their house is the house of a family who want to keep their living quarters reasonable without becoming slaves to cleaning it. By the way, I have this perspective because my dad was more like the other mom... he made us spend our weekends cleaning, things like rubbing all the dog hair off the carpeted staircases with our finger tips until they were blistered, inspecting every room after we had cleaned it and pointing out a small speck on the window that was missed then demonstrating that the surface isn't clean until you can hear the cloth squeeking against the glass as you rub off the cleaning solution, etc. For him, cleaning was not about cleaning, it was about control. He felt out of control in every other aspect of his life, so he wanted to command us kids to keep his environment from reflecting his true inner life. So a little clutter here and there, for me, signifies a healthy life in which time is being well spent.

Yeah, thanks for posting this!

Hey Jake, if I'm being completely honest, I see a lot of trendy words that any business would be happy to use, which make them sound a little empty to me. Why not just be real without overindulging or getting too fluffy. The simple truth "Organic. Local. Fresh." would do it for me, personally. And the one tagline that stood out to me as having the most straight forward meaning with a fun little twist is "from Mother Nature, for Your Health." And "Rise and Shine" hits the spot for me too. When I hear it, I envision waking up to a healthy life, embodied in a nutritious breakfast and a tall glass of fresh juice. In fact, I was going to vote for "Rise and Shine" as your biz name, but saw that you had already chosen one. But now no where in your name/tagline etc. do I get a sense of what your business is. So maybe you could expand to "Organic. Local. Fresh. Juice." Looking forward to everyone else's thoughts! -EDIT- I've been thinking about this a little more, and realized the name/tagline combo is rather convoluted and pretty fluffy... not sure if this is good or bad. For me, I have a strong preference for simplicity and clarity. It would be quite difficult to decipher what your business does by reading the name/tagline/description. But maybe there's a chance to ride the healthy eating wave by using these specific words you've come up with. I'm just pointing this out. I have no idea what's best for your business.

I think that is a great idea. I've been to a few farmers markets outside of the U.S. and there were vendors juicing on site and selling the juice. I've not come across a farmers market in the U.S. that sells fresh juice. Someone suggested growing your own fruits and veggies organically. You are a smart man to let the division of labor go to work here... I've been gardening for many years and still struggle to produce enough food to feed myself. It would take years and a very large investment to produce your own. On a small scale, you'd end up paying way more to grow than you would to buy from your market buddies. The cost of buying organic shouldn't be a problem anyways... you can justify the mark up because you've manipulated the product further... and not everyone wants a juicer for their home (buying a 12 oz glass of juice for $5 or whatever price on the weekend would be more desirable than buying a $300 juicer for some people). So I think your idea is pretty cool. I guess I just wanted to share my thoughts because I don't understand when people encourage you to bite off way more than you can chew before you've had a chance to get started. It's like, just because they are removed from the situation and have no stake in it, they're going to imagine the most elaborate business plan. I find it quite discouraging. I'm sure it's helpful in some way, maybe for long term visioning, but right now you have so many little details to focus in on to make any kind of progress. ESPECIALLY with all the dang gov't regulations when it comes to the food industry. You gotta start somewhere and maintain some focus. (By the way, I really hope this doesn't offend anyone, I'm just speaking my mind). Someone also recommended starting out with a variety of food items... although I'm a huge proponent of diversification, I think you are smart to focus on one thing. Once you are established, you can start experimenting on a small scale introducing new food items to see which ones are popular. I wouldn't pay much attention to that just yet, though, and maybe never depending how your market responds to the juicing. There's a guy that sells at our local farmers market, and he's way too experimental in the variety of products he sells, he can't commit. I admire his determination, but his strategy is not effective. One week it's homemade hand salve, the next it's sweet tea, the next it's handmade jewelry. I've observed his stand, and he gets very few customers. Compared to vendors who are focused one product, something like coffee or soap. As far as health concerns around juicing, with a juice made of primarily fruit there is a lot of fructose. But it's not really a problem if you're going to have a glass of juice on the weekends when visiting the farmers market. Anyways, you can mix in a lot more veggies than fruit to balance out the sugar content. The benefit of juicing is that you are able to consume the vitamins and minerals of a lot of veggies that you wouldn't be able to eat whole. Additionally, you are removing the fiber... yes this is a good thing... too much fiber is just as detrimental as not enough (contrary to what modern medicine would like you to believe). The most important health concern would be cleanliness, always wash before juicing. And I'm rooting for you as you jump through the regulation hoops!!! It would be cool if you could share some tips and advice as you navigate it if you have the extra time. Way to go! You must have a supportive network of family and friends to be jumpstarting this at such a young age, very cool! Maybe the noise isn't a problem, it could attract more people to your stand Farmers markets are noisy and bustling anyways. Again, this is something I would consider after getting established... the noise may not even be a problem. Another something you should keep in mind but not focus your attention on right now until you have some experience. Addressing the noise now could end up being a waste of your time, could end up being a critical step... you won't know until you get started.

How does your fiance feel about it? (Or does she even know?) Why aren't you two in the same area? My one concern would be... "what type of people am I interacting with?" like who are your followers and what is the value of interacting with them? The overarching question, is porn immoral, moral or amoral (that is, porn made legally by consenting adults)?... I don't know. I have researched it on the forum before, and never really found an answer. The issue most commonly brought up is the fact that many porn stars tend to come from abusive childhoods and are tortured souls... which wouldn't really relate to your question because your characters are nonliving and fictional. But then again, it doesn't seem like it's talked about a whole lot here... at least people aren't talking about the occasional recreational use of porn. The discussions I've been able to find are about sort of 'extreme' fetishes (for want of a better phrase) and addictions to porn.

This is where I am at personally when it comes to explaining death, it is comforting. I was sheltered; my parents didn't speak about death and they prevented me from having my own experiences with death (for example, they didn't allow me to go to funerals as a child... according to them, that was no place for a child. So, frustratingly, death still freaks me out a little. But anyways, after reading this post, I realize that it might not be beneficial for a small child when an adult explains death using this approach. It sort of skips over the concept that grampa is no longer grampa--he doesn't have thoughts, he's no longer conscious, his mind is not working, his body is not functioning--now it is just a corpse. So grampa did not go into the ground and become flowers, the matter that made up his body did. In this forensic psychologist's example, I feel that the rose essentially replaced heaven as the afterlife. Which could be considered comforting, but maybe a little misleading for a child. It's as if you are telling the child that grampa lives on through the rose. Well, no, he doesn't. Grampa is gone forever. I don't know, those are just my thoughts on the fly. Having said all of that, for some reason I still like this explanation.

I had just a thought/question to share with you. How will your child feel knowing that your fiance is spending more time with other children than with him/her... and how will your child feel actually being able to see this going on daily?

Man, this hurts my heart very much Why did no one do anything to restrain the mother? A kick to the head is extremely violent... how could anyone safely assume that it would stop there?

I have a few questions and comments that may or may not help. First, what were the classes in highschool you considered a waste of time? What were the classes you enjoyed? If you were able to go to college, what degree would you pursue and why? Aside from joining the Navy, what are some careers that interest you? Now let me say that I don't know you, and I certainly don't know what's best for you. The following includes my own opinions, and I am not making any recommendations. Just some things to consider. I didn't learn anything of value in college, and I even graduated in the the top 10%. I majored in Business, which no doubt played a huge role in getting my first job. But I've since quit that job and am now ramping up to start my own business. I'm learning more from research online and from going to the library in the last few months than I learned in five years of college (yes, it took me 5 years because I couldn't decide what degree to get and honestly, I was just going through the motions... "graduate highschool" "go to college" "pick a 'promising' major" "get a 'respectable' job," etc.) (I'm sure there are some technical degrees and college programs that are worthwhile, but you gotta know who you are, what you want, and how to get it.) What makes me angry, is now I'm 26 and starting from scratch because I spent all those years in school. What if my family and society had supported me in trying to discover myself earlier and helped me to understand my own real preferences, dreams and personal strengths... then what if they helped me to achieve them rather than shuffling me around and placing such an importance on grades? Maybe I would have been able to start working towards these dreams at 18 (or earlier), rather than post-poning them and now having to start from scratch at 26. Instead, they had a particular path in mind for me, ignored my true desires and my creative ideas, and sometimes outright shut me down. I like this video, and I share many of the same viewpoints as this guy when it comes to college. Maybe it's worth a watch. Looking forward to your response!

7 billion. I admit, I was a little hasty in my response, but I still trust my reaction. Anyone who tells the men in my life to: 1. Take responsibility for someone else's actions (in this case, the rapists), and/or 2. Take responsibility for someone else's emotions (in this case, women's fears of being raped) 3. And change their behavior accordingly is manipulative, and therefore untrustworthy and potentially harmful. For any of the men in my life that I care about, I must protect them from such manipulation. The author of this article provides behavioral tips that a man should employ for "alleviating" womens' concerns of being raped. HIs stance is based on the fact that most rapes are committed by men. What about this scenario? Blacks commit a majority of reported robberies in the United States. What if this author was writing to black people, explaining that white people are afraid of being robbed by a black person, and feel threatened and afraid because of this possibility when they encounter a black person on the streets. And what if the author explained that it was black peoples' duty to make the white people feel at ease. And he would go on to suggest black people follow his behavioral tips to achieve this: things like, "don't wear hoodies," "keep your hands out of your pockets when in public," "maintain a slight smile when you encounter a white person on the street," etc. What would your reaction to that be? I would call that racism and the ideas in the article would probably be rejected. The small percentage of men who rape women do not do so because they are men, they rape women because they are messed up in the head. People must take responsibility for their own actions and their own emotions. If you have a nagging fear of being raped, you probably need to see a therapist or buy a tazer. Do not ask my boyfriend to change his behavior.

The problem is that she was feeling uncertain and maybe a bit annoyed by his "lack of motivation" as she would have described it, which turned out to be him struggling to bring in business... late responses to clients, not following up with leads, etc. This was her scapegate. However, she realized that this was only occurring because he was spreading himself thin and he really didn't enjoy that aspect of his business (getting jobs, doing paperwork, calling clients, etc.). And her problem was misplacing her unease, and expecting him to step up and successfully juggle multiple balls... essentially suck it up and get the shit done... or in another dreaded word, she expected him to change. Once she began to investigate what the true source of her distress was (having false expectations of her man and expecting him to change to make her feel better), and once she began to empathize with him and accept his true self (that he prefers doing the actual work, not all the planning and customer relations and job finding, which was stressing him out and overwhelming him), then she was able to create and fill a complimentary role to his. It's teamwork, rather. So instead of setting false expectations of him, they've worked out a situation where he is able to do what he does best and she is able to do what she does best, and for this reason their relationship and their business are already more successful. Does this help, or are you still having doubts, Mr. Capitalism? Please share.

This is a response to the original post. Doesn't it take a mass of people who interact in some form or another to create a culture? And how many men are actually rapists? 0.01%? Who knows, but it can't be that high. And where is this city that they all hang out at? The rape culture is an illusion, it's quite ridiculous. The stance that "you're contributing to the rape culture because you are a man" is the same b.s. that "you are a sinner because you were born." Yes there are some nasty freaking people out there, but they certainly don't make up what I would call a culture. And everyone else is not in any way part of their "culture" just for being a certain gender. I'm sorry, I didn't read through everything and I could only read two paragraphs of the article before I felt like throwing up. I carry some form of protection if I needed to defend myself, however I hardly think about being raped. The guy who wrote this article, and anyone who promotes it is a moron. If I noticed this guy gently trying to approach me in a "friendly manner", or using his subliminal vibes to "make me feel comfortable" I'd be freaked the eff out. What an idiot. And by the way, most rapes (outside of male prisons) occur between people who already know each other (co workers, friends, classmates)... not usually strangers on the street or in the elevator. Pure propaganda.

Well, last time I left this thread, I nearly had a breakdown, thinking that I know nothing about friendship. That may still be the case, but I wanted to report that I've made some major progress, and so has my friend. Last time I wrote to you all, I talked about how my friend and I had a very long conversation where I focused on maintaining enough curiosity to ask a lot of questions without assuming anything. I was also completely honest about my outlook on her relationship with the guy (I didn't know whether it would work or it would fail). Well, she has given me an update and it turns out that due to our conversation, she thought and thought about her own doubts. She was able to identify the source... that she felt trapped and out of control when it came to their finances (powerless I guess). She was projecting these feelings onto their relationship. And it's quite amazing, she came up with a legitimate solution, she's become co-owner of their business and runs the areas that play to her strengths (planning, customer service, etc.) so that her fiance can play to his strengths (doing the actual production). She said the impact has been hugely positive already. I just wanted to share the good news, I was overwhelmed with joy when she told me all of this. Hopefully I'm not overreacting and actually missing something. Anyways, I feel that it was a success for everyone involved. Just wanted to share. Thanks everyone for asking questions and providing advice. A small victory, but the effort must continue.

No, it wasn't your choice in highschool. Unless your parents came to you and said "Son, we've made a terrible mistake putting you on those meds, and are so sorry... Now we think you should get off of them," and you responded "No, I'm going to continue." Your parents and that teacher made you believe you needed those meds, and you were still a child in highschool, therefore it was not your choice to stay on those meds. Your current self medication, though, is definitely your choice. Why are you choosing to cloud your judgment in such a way and stall any kind of progress? You need a clear, rational, linear mind to start working this stuff out, yet you are preventing this. Take it from me, quitting your job will not provide sustained results. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I just went through the same thing, quit my job (what most would have considered a dream job) for many reasons including that it was stressing me out too much. Well, I'm still dealing with stress for many other reasons (many that were unexpected) and I realized I was simply projecting my internal dysfunction onto my job. I certainly don't regret it, but it wasn't a magic fix for me like I was hoping. I think it did help a little though. Look, even just wanting to hook up with someone requires some form of a relationship, and that's the truth. You can keep making this about your inability to get some, that's your choice. But as we've tried to point out, that is probably not the root cause of your current turmoil. It's nice to believe that there is one easy fix to all of this, but there isn't. Say you do end up scoring with a woman, then what? Help, what help? Maybe I've gotten the wrong impression (and please correct me if I'm way off), but it doesn't seem like you've gained much from this thread. Kudos to you for starting it, reaching out for help and being honest, but you seem like you are not receptive to much of what we've said. I would suggest reading through the thread again and see if any lights turn on. Otherwise, you may want to consider calling into the show, maybe Stefan can help to break whatever barrier you have going on. I hope you are not offended by my bluntness, but I believe this is a space where people can turn to when no one in their lives (including themselves) will tell them the truth. That is what I want to gain from this forum, so I must contribute in the same way as well. Good luck to you!

I agree. Well said, Patrick. Baylor, there are many authors who you could look into that might help you along the path of this introspection and self-knowledge (in addition to therapy and journaling, of course). Stefan seems to recommend Nathaniel Brandon and John Bradshaw frequently. I've read some of Bradshaw's book "On the Family" and found it very helpful. One of the most helpful books I've read is "Healing The Emotional Self" by Beverly Engel... it can really help you understand how the way you were parented still has an effect on you today, it was an eye opener for me. And I'm sure you can find more recommendations on the forum.

It sounds like you are looking at this anxiety as a flaw in yourself, but could it possibly be telling you something... like maybe it is legitimate and trying to protect you from something. I understand that you believe it is to an extreme, and therefore a dysfunction... But I find that my own anxieties in life do not mislead me, they are usually legitimate. Whether my anxiety is telling me "danger lies straight ahead, proceed with caution" or, "this reminds me of something from our past that we haven't dealt with... we gotta deal with it." Although you say that you think you've identified the root causes of your anxiety, it would seem to me that you haven't because you are trying to push the anxiety out of the way rather than fully understand it. You are not able to speak in specifics with great detail. What I read was "oh it's my religious upbringing" but that's not specific enough to really help yourself through this. Obviously, I don't know you and I'm not an expert, but I'm just sharing what popped out at me as I read your post. You gotta be more empathetic toward your anxiety rather than get angry at it. And I wanted to share one more thing, why are you wanting to approach women under such circumstances? I personally do not want to be bothered while I'm at the doctor or at the gym (I don't go to the gym, I'm just trying to make a point), and I especially don't want to be approached by my neighbors who are sexually interested in me. Of course I can't speak for all women, but that's how I usually feel... a bit annoyed (I'm a moderate introvert and also have a boyfriend, probably useful info). I'm sorry, I'm not trying to worsen your anxiety, but it's not like you would just approach a man, interrupt him and make small talk while he is at the doctor's office. (EDIT - I understand that these can become great ways to meet women, approaching them at the grocery store or whatever... but that seems more advanced to me because it's a bit risky and your odds can be kind of low. I'm just saying it might be a discouraging way to start, but something you could work your way up to.) Why not become part of more social interactions where other people's objectives are to meet new people? That way you're not catching anybody off guard and you have less reason to worry about a bad reaction from someone. Sorry, I can't think of any examples right now, but I hope I've given you some ideas. You've created a false dichotomy--that you either have to go after someone in your social group, or someone randomly running errands. Don't get me wrong, if you see "the one" while you're grabbing a coffee, you darn well better talk to her... but it doesn't sound to me like you are talking about seeing "the one," just pretty faces with nice bodies. Feedback is very welcome, I fear that this post could potentially be taken the wrong way... so if you need any clarification please ask. Oh, and I thought of an example... online dating... have you tried that?

I would like to share a super amazing secret that will solve all of these dumb peoples' concerns. There is a free form of birth control that no one has ever told you about... you will be amazed at just how simple, yet effective, it really is... it's called... "don't let a man blow his load up inside your vagina."

I like these one-liners a lot. I think they would be effective... not at convincing the person that atheism is in fact not a religion, but rather in helping me determine if the person is capable of thought. It's like a non-intimidating-greeting-card explanation of an advanced topic. Either they get it, or they don't. If they don't, no point in engaging further into a trap of word salad and a conversation that includes too many counts of the word "belief." If they get it, the one liner just opened up a great conversation!

That is so awesome that you were able to see your family situation for what it truly is, rather than how you had been manipulated to see it for most of your life. Congratulations and it is amazing that you want to protect your children from that dysfunction! I'm no expert, and certainly no psychologist or family counselor or anything like that. But first, I think you should dig into why you consider telling the truth to your children to be talking bad about your family. Sometimes, that feeling creeps up on me when I'm sharing details about my manipulative family and I feel bad, but then I realize I was conditioned to feel this way when I'm exploring the truth because my family didn't want to be exposed for what they really were... kind of like psychological black mail, I guess. Then, I'd like to draw attention to a method that Stefan has shared in a few podcasts (which is also a great way to help children develop empathy). You can explain to your kids that your family members hurt you, or rather that they were mean to you. Then you can ask them "what if I invited one of your mean classmates over to play with us?" Then hopefully your kids realize that they wouldn't like that at all, and so they can better understand why you don't want to be around your family and why you want to keep your kids away from them.