A4E

The holy grail. And it doesn't help that people like me, if they have been digging enough, finally try to prove the gas chambers to themselves. The next inevitable realization is sure to repel a lot more people in forums or social media if they mention it. I just dive in with everything if I see an opportunity, which might not be the best approach, but atleast im doing something. Ultimately, people choose themselves if they want to look at something. But one big step is presenting the information to them. It doesn't have to be complicated.

But... I thought you free willers dont believe in causality. And yes, you caught me. I was not specific enough. Sorry. I ment that I was very interested in how it negates all life achievements and happiness. Would it not mean anything? How can you say that? A movie is a predetermined universe that will play out the same each time it is played. Do the achievements of the characters in the movie not mean anything? You say that everything someone achieve does not mean anything, so then lets take out all the achievements of the hero in the movie. Now the movie should be the same according to you. Right? You are a part of this universe, so a lot of things has a lot to do with you. Please correct me if I am wrong. So you think I could have replied to you if you did not make that post? How do you have a profile here that everyone can see if your actions mean nothing? What would happen to your neighborhood if everything you have done was erased from time? I think your actions mean a lot more than nothing. Ok lets take out the things you have achieved from the history of the universe. Is the universe the same today? Your biological life form achieved those things in our reality. So you could accept being proud rationally, if only for being that life form. But yes, you have a point in that a rock would not make sense if it was feeling proud about rolling down a hill. The feeling of being proud is I think a reward in your brain, to make you want to do more of what apparently is working to make your life or something else better. So in this setting, for your life form, it makes sense to get this reward. I am proud of being a character in a movie. Are you saying you are not?? Its so exciting!! What will happen next!???

I am very interested in what you mean by "it would negate my life and all that brings happiness.". Could you elaborate? To be perfectly honest I laughed out loud when I read it, but I am very open to being schooled.

I understand what you mean. And I am perfectly aware that there are a lot of people who will not even look at it for 5 minutes, and if this was another forum, would lash out all kinds of profanities and tin foil remarks at me. If there is a forum paradise, this is probably it. I already described what benefits making people aware would have in the previous post, so I am assuming you see the potential benefits, but somehow you think it will not have any effect. So by your reasoning, I don't have to talk about child abuse elsewhere on internet, because the average child abusing parent is not going to spend any time listening anyway. Also, would you be willing to say this: "But so, what do Stefan want to get out of this conversation? Even talking to someone who will accept child abuse as abhorrent, I would not be sure what the goal is here. The average peon is not going to take 5 minutes to look at any evidence suggesting they are anything other than righteous and good parents, much less one or two hours. Anyone smart enough to bother is probably already a peaceful parent."

I found a well made new redux video of additional perspectives. It also has a shocking treat at the end that I never saw before. In case you are thinking that exposing lies and staged events have no value. One good reason to make people aware of this staged event, is so that people will be better able to recognize new staged events, and put recent events into a more revealing light. A population that is emotionally distressed, pleading to authority, and setting themselves up to be programmed, is a sure way for society, and freedom, to continue downhill. I have accepted this importance, but if you have a good case as to how I am wrong in my assumption, then please show me or tell me, so that I can stop spending time spreading information like this.

Edit: I changed my mind about this post.

I am aware of the age of this post, but I felt like replying to it now, though I recognize that I might not get a reply back. What 'actual landing' are you referring to? I would like to see you prove that someone piloted something that landed on the moon. I am not being sarcastic or anything. I would really like it to be proven to me that a human was inside something that landed on the moon. A straw man is not a fact. So it could not be just central people in the management of NASA? What is the reason it has to involve such a broad spectrum of institutions and people? Lets say a person in my city was lying to people about taking a trip to the north pole on one particular day, and I find a surveillance tape, 100% identifying this person to be sitting in a cafe on that entire day. Would this person's hoax then represent a massive, neighborhood wide level of conspiracy, and not just with his/her family, but a near nationwide cabal of unprecedented influence and spreading of misinformation? btw, Russia has a mutual benefit of keeping quiet of anything they know about USA, because they are, or at least have been, doing much of the same. No, you are not skeptical. If you had been, you would not accept that a human was inside something that landed on the moon, until it had been proven to you. It is known that they paid contractors. So it would be interesting to see how many of those contractor companies were created shortly before the hoax, and by whom, to get a better overview of how much of the money could have been filtered out into the pockets of complicit people.

It reeks of fakery, and it was pretty obviously written by a woman imo, so your investigation makes sense.

Great post. Similar thoughts have gone through my mind ever since I was around 9. There was a female teacher at my school who had gym with us. When we were supposed to shower after gym, none of us really wanted to, but a few usually went ahead like good minions and showered anyway. And when they learned that the rest of us were going to try to skip the shower (again), they promptly told on us to that female teacher, and she would come in and tell us to shower, and even command and lead us into the shower. This was a common situation each time after gym. The teacher seemed strict, but not in a bad mood, so she probably enjoyed it. One day, I got tired of the same complaints from the good minions about how they had to shower, but we, the rest, wouldn't, (revealing that they did not want to either), So I looked at the worst complainer and said in a very serious tone "If we stand together against the teacher, then we will not have this problem! We can rally against the teacher, and then this problem will go away!". He looked at me like something extraterrestrial was coming out of my chest, and everyone went quiet and did not say anything for a couple of minutes. Its hard to remember now, but I actually think the complaints and tattle tailing lowered substantially.

I've had alot of help from Bulk Rename Utility. And from glancing at the features, seems it might help you aswell.

It makes sense that he would link extremism to people like me, since we are actively trying to counter all the propaganda and lies he clings to in order to shatter all forms of powers of the people. Most likely he works for people who want to create totalitarianism, instead of letting a free society take over. He attended the annual bilderberg private meeting in 2013.

I made a reply to you, but now I am unsure of what you were actually saying. And I did not find much about "subjective intentions" on internet yet, so perhaps you could elaborate on your post. I could see that they may not intend to hurt anyone or themselves, but I am still divided on this, also because in the event they kill someone, they are usually charged for manslaughter, which entails responsibility.

Lots of good points, thanks! I guess I can not say that they "want to die" anymore then. Could I say "They are willing to accept possible death and manslaughter in order to get their needs met" ? If so, how could I shorten that phrase? How about "Human landmine" ?

I tried to make the topic name as boiled down as possible. My mother gets distressed every time she hears about young people who dies in traffic locally, and most notably they are usually caused by high speeds, and those are the ones I will focus on here. I tried to lecture my mother, that its not really a tragedy, because they clearly wanted to die. I also tried to explain that in the case of passengers, they would probably know what kind of person the driver is, or if not, then they choose to trust a stranger to transport them in a vehicle that is well known to be dangerous to the physical body, so that passengers are not really victims of anything forced upon them either. I have not thought much about it, and so maybe I am making some mistakes in my line of reasoning, which is why I want to talk about it here. The driver chose him/herself to bring the vehicle to a high speed. I'd say all people know that high speed can kill you, and so those young people seem to rather risk death, than to not look cool, or in the case of passengers, let go of social/group pressure. That much is pretty straight forward, and I doubt anyone would disagree with that, but my hypothesis is to say that if they are going too fast for their own safety, then they basically want to die. More so than merely risking death. Now, the driver could make excuses for driving fast. Maybe to save time, so then the driver does not want to die, but just save time. That means this person is willing to risk death in order to save time. So how could it be concluded that this person wants to die? Say that I am going to parachute out of a plane, and I notice that my parachute is damaged. I have no idea if the damage will be of no consequence, or if it will make me drop slightly slower than a rock. I want to save time, and money, which is also why I bought a parachute without a backup parachute, so I dive out anyway. I clearly choose to risk death in order to save time and money, but can it be said that I clearly want to die? Say that I order food in a restaurant, and at the same moment I receive my plate, some of the customers show major signs of food poisoning and are rushed to hospital. I decide to eat my meal. Do I want to die, or am I just willing to risk death in order to enjoy the meal? I can try to make my proposal silly, by saying that entering a train is the same as wanting to die unless you know the man in control of the train. Or that just being alive is the same as wanting to die the minute I learn that a meteorite from space could kill me at any moment, unless I build or stay underneath a sufficiently strong protective structure. Would such examples have to be valid and included in my hypothesis? Or is it ok to make a distinction between 'solid' examples like the damaged parachute situation, and silly examples like entering a train without knowing the driver. I think I can strengthen my hypothesis, by including continuation. If I want to parachute out of a plane every day and I intentionally cut the parachute randomly with a scissors. Do I want to die, or just risk death for more excitement? Does it change with the percentage chance of dying? How high a percentage, or continuation of lower percentage (which increase the chance of ) would it take to be able to say, -That person clearly wanted to die. I could take an old revolver with one bullet inside. Spin it and press the trigger to my head to win a bet, but if I made the same bet every day, do I want to die, or just risk death to win money? To sum up, do you think it is erroneous to say that young people who were going too fast in cars, every day, and knew the danger, and ended up dead because of it, wanted to die?

Could it have something to do with this illustration? Not so important for us, but to our species is that it seems we are on our way down in temperature. From here.

I reread the section many times, and I think I understand it now.

Interesting. Have not seen such a definition of trolls before. Thanks. I did not understand much of the "Combating denial" section. Would it be possible to get an elaboration? Because this was interesting and I want to make sure I understand your whole post.

I am pretty sure that even though most people know that the wmd claim was a lie, they are generally willing to excuse them both, because "Everyone makes mistakes." or "The faulty intelligence gathering was to blame" or "They can't know everything". (I have heard those several times I think) Another thing is that I have debated a guy who completely agrees that GWB and DC lied on purpose to start the wars, but was insanely and completely unwilling to open up to the idea that 911 was staged. He could say (I am not making the following up) -"Yeah they lied about all that wmd and the Saddam link to terrorists, but 9/11 you see was completely unexpected and took everyone by surprise, and there was nothing anyone could have done, and those terrorists had been training for it with flight simulators and all 19 of them had been successfully brainwashed to think they would get x amount of virgins at completion. GWB and DC only took advantage of the situation afterwards, but ofcourse they had nothing to do with it. You are just a paranoid and mentally sick person who wants to find like-minded to be friends with." If I had known then how ad hominem attacks is a sure sign of desperation and weakness, I would probably not spend so much time talking with him. When both GWB and DC played significant parts around and after 9/11 alongside Donald Rumsfeld to prop up the narrative and avoid any call for investigation, I think it is beneficial to link them to the fakery, so that its harder for people to make excuses for them. I'm not actually saying its the best way to prove that they lie and justify wars. But im pretty sure it helps. However, 9/11 can be a big gateway for other information. Realizing that 9/11 was faked, was a big turning point in my life, and I owe alot of later information to it, that I might never have looked into if it had not been for other people exposing 9/11. Also it is unlikely I would have found Stefan. All in all it means that my health and knowledge and self awareness and my relationships are now all good, thanks to the same kind of devoted people that I am now. Which can give you an explanation as to why I want to do this and feel (or more accurately know) that it will have an effect on other people. I know what you mean, and I have seen the errors in my past. I thought that it was possible to make any person understand how the official conspiracy theory falls apart. But from my experience to this point I think it is a general rule that if a person resists and oppose/attack you for more than maybe 30 seconds, then that person will do so until he dies. Another thing that Stefan helped me figure out. For those of you rolling your eyes, yes I could be wrong. I am able to admit that I can be wrong. Maybe 9/11 was a real event, but then please find someone who can explain how everything happened like they said, and I will listen. I have even read papers from different people trying to explain the collapse. Try to find any adequate explanation from the start of the collapse yourself. Agreed. Today when replying to posts, I do so to affect all people reading, not specifically the poster. I know that you want, and others on this forum want to trivialize hoaxes and staged events. Because you feel that there are much bigger issues at hand. That might seem like a rational approach, But I am fairly certain that it is important for atleast peace and individual rights on this planet. How much harder do you think it would have been to start a war with Iraq if 9/11 never happened? How much harder do you think it would have been for gun grabbers to take everyones guns if they had not staged Sandy hook? I guess people in USA were lucky that they still could muster so much pro gun activism. But how about the next time a staged event is used to try to take their guns or other freedoms? Less freedom means more of everything anti freedom. Case in point, patriot act right after 9/11. It is true that I and many other truthers have wasted alot of time on specific people, but on the plus side most of those conversations are public, so they are not totally useless.

In my opinion it is misleading to suggest that the government or the state was behind the false flag staged event. In my country, when I have talked about this, other people might even say something like "Do you really think that americans would do this to themselves.", which is even more misleading. No, most likely criminal and corrupt people in, and outside the government, played their part on that day. Investigation into who the culprits were and prosecution of them should be done. However, it is not the truthers main goal to find the culprits, but to inform everyone else of how just about everything that was proposed, (the official conspiracy theory that was ready on the same day within an hour), cannot be explained with logic, rationality, evidence, or physics. You say "If you successfully convince someone that 9/11 was in fact an inside job,". But it should first be applied the other way. It is a fact that most people were duped on that day, including me, but to my knowledge, noone has been successfully explained that 911 was in fact an outside job, we just accepted that it had happened without asking how. What I mean is that I never saw a documentary on TV explaining to me how the terrorists were able to maneuver a plane in such high speeds and so precise, when only 1 out of 10 experienced pilots was able to recreate it in a simulator. Or in the same documentary absolute details on how entire scyscrapers turn into dust when some floors high up lose the ability to carry the load of the floors above. Maybe jvince will be nice enough to tell us everything about that. Or how the entire air defense failed to respond, (which is easy to explain when you know that there could not have been any planes.), or how some terrorists in each plane were able to hold x amount of passengers and pilots and cabin crew at bay, with box cutters. Were any of these things explained to you? Did everyone reach a rational, logical conclusion based on evidence, or is it safe to say that the official conspiracy theory became so prevalent because it was presented on TV everywhere, all day and for weeks afterwards, and everyone then collectively agreed on it? ...terrorism from cavemen is a far less threat to anything, and we should focus on the real terrorism from governments who are steered towards made up enemies by people like Dick Cheney, who start wars and kill millions of civilians in the process. I will check out what this Stefan guy has to say, since you tell me he does not want a government. And there are some forum members there, who say that just about everything is, or might be a hoax or staged. Now that I know that 911 was such an obvious staged event, I will look into those other official claims put out throughout history and other recent events so that I dont have to go through life being duped by all sorts of lies which will affect my ability to have a peacefull, productive, prosperous, open minded, and enlightened life. And in doing so, I will make an example for other people to take control of their own lives aswell, instead of letting propaganda push them around.

I would like to make you aware that you made a perfect strawman. And also that you are (intentionally or not) trying to appeal to everyones emotions, and to specifically make people in my camp feel bad and immoral. It did not work on me, but I empathize with all the others who you might have hurt.

I watched that debunk video after my mind had been taken hostage by history channel. The debunk documentary is very well made and also very interesting even if you would not care whether it was aliens. Both history channel and national geographic has a bad reputation for making things up or faking things, like fake reality shows.

Awesome! Finally someone who have the credentials and the opportunity to lay this to rest. I would really have loved it if everything that was proposed that day could have been explained with rationality, logic, evidence and math. Sadly I and many others have been unable to do so. But now you are here!! And you say that it happened as it was presented. And I expect that you have considered foul play, but that you have figured it all out and it happened the way it was presented on TV. Great! Really, thanks!! I really respect that you have the capacity to come to this conclusion. I have many questions, but lets narrow them down for now, would you mind telling me and everyone else the absolute details and mechanics on how the 2 highrise steel buildings collapsed after the floors of the plane impact led to "sudden, catastrophic, and cascading failures." like you said. When those floors had "sudden, catastrophic, and cascading failures", what happened after that? How did the 2 towers collapse? Could you please tell us details on this? I expect you know the full details on the structure of the 2 towers and how they were built, and of what materials. I would really appreciate it if you could explain in detail how both of these huge structures collapsed. Please.

I think this qualifies as a bad joke. -Jesus is walking on water. Then suddenly he meets an ice fisherman.

Thanks for the post GregMerwe. Dont think I've seen the Psy Opera video. Seems to lay it all out nicely. Watching it now.

Correction; going out of my way to find the truth. And I believed alot of things before that are lies. I believed that man made global warming was real because I had been brainwashed by 10000 references on TV. I believed that gas chambers were real because TV said so... and much more. alot of stories do not hold up so well when you actually try to prove it to yourself instead of listening to well spoken people on TV. 1. You dont know what my brain is doing. 2. You are wrong. 3. You could have asked. Please do not make condescending remarks about what I do with my life. My main hobby is programming. But I also want to know everything about the universe. Getting rid of blatant lies that are without evidence is a must for such a goal. That is partly true, but only because I want to know as much as possible about the universe.