brucethecollie

I wanted to recommend the books The Element and Finding Your Element (in that order) by Ken Robinson. He has a PhD and is an educationalist with a great sense of humor. His Ted talk is what first led me to check out the books ( ). What struck me about him is his compassionate and very human approach coupled with the logic and research of his field. When thinking about how to go forward in homeschooling my kids, his books have helped me to be more in tune with the reality of my children's abilities, interests, and aptitude for different things. (Part of that reality is that they will know themselves better than I know them) After reading the books I also committed to foster an environment at home where we are all totally ok with being wrong because it encourages us to simply correct and move forward and we value creativity coupled with results (meaning a creative way of decorating the house which results in tackiness is not exactly a win). I find that coupling what I've read in his books with what I've learned and continue to learn at FDR gives me a lot of guidance. For example, if something is a practical skill like reading then for my children it's not a matter of whether they choose to learn it or not, it's instead a matter of me helping them with a most suitable route to learning it. For my daughter it's a group setting and she likes to have frequent breaks to move about. For my son it's one on one attention in long one and two hour spans of time. I technically unschool but other unschoolers don't have their children learn anything they don't want to which is something I can't subscribe to because children may not know they want to learn to read until it's too late or much more difficult to do so. Robinson makes a clear case for appreciating the differences in humans and I think it goes hand in hand with what I've been learning here about IQ and the range of capabilities. He explains how there isn't any shame in realizing one doesn't have the intelligence to go to college and how there is a huge reward in following abilities and interest because that leads a person to being useful and valuable in society and personally fulfilled. In today's world people really wish for children that will be great fits for higher education because they are comforted by the likelihood of higher pay and stability for them but for those pushed into that and colleges accepting and coddling those who aren't made for it, people end up stuck where they can't compete in addition to being in debt. It's another sign the systems in place are off. I not only found the books encouraging for me as a parent and would have loved this book as a teenager. Somehow I grew up ashamed that I was "book smart" and "nerdy", so much so that I got into sports in order to tear that image down. (I was always annoyed by classmates who couldn't understand things and felt guilty and then sorry for them so I tried to join them?) Looking back, I wish I had embraced my inclinations to be the type that could do well in and greatly enjoy higher education. I didn't even apply to any colleges despite an advanced diploma and my teachers telling me I should. And now I see how a perverse view of differences in abilities corrupted my thinking (also, I am very empathetic and in the past have found myself vulnerable to popular culture's guilt and shaming of those who can feel for others). If you have read one of these books I'd like to hear what you thought.. By the way, thank you to FDR and all of you who share here for helping to break down learned walls of perversion.

Absolutely, and even for those who legitimately need to give birth in a hospital (like myself) the way the hospital runs things brings on so much unnecessary trauma. They took away my insulin because they said I wasn't allowed to self administer (never mind that I do it all the time when not in the hospital) and then they lost my vial, causing me high blood sugar. Then they said my high blood sugar temporarily ruined my breast milk but hey, here is some free formula!

I'd be interested in findings on this, too. During my postpartum depression time I experienced an onslaught of sad, bitter, and confusing feelings regarding my parents, the religion I had been raised in, and everything I had been told in school.

I would guess Stefan is more of an ENFJ

As a teenager I got interested in learning about all the different types. I have understood that most people have trouble testing themselves because they struggle answering to their truth versus their ideal. I have tested INFP since age 14. I have studied all the other types and found it useful in relationships. In particular, it has helped me in my relationship with my husband and parents. As for if it is scientific or not, I don't know, but my observation of it after years of attention has made it a fun tool for me. Maybe that's just it-I find it really entertaining and interesting. It's like a hobby. I used to guess people's type. I'd write it down and not divulge until they took the test and then we'd compare. I was usually right on which seemed pretty good considering how many types there are. But maybe they don't mean anything except for tendencies and how tendencies in certain combination produce other tendencies? If anything it helped me appreciate the differences in people (not good/bad differences) but just differences in approaches to taking in information, processing it, assessing emotions, and expressing ideas and emotions, and so on.

I saw this with my husband a few years ago. He agrees with your feedback on the film.

I think this is a very helpful way of referring to ourselves. I have always looked at it like getting back to the real me or my true self. My parents have described what I was like when I was under age 5 and I have used that (as well as audio recordings of myself from those years) as a way of guiding myself back. For example, I had crippling shyness from age 6 to about 13. I was shocked to discover later that I wasn't like that prior to age 6. It was liberating for me to find out because it made me feel like I could change back because I had already changed to begin with. Of course, our full personalities and potential aren't done at age 3, 4, or 5 so I really like thinking in terms of old and new me. In just the past few years my new me has shed to old me several times over. Or maybe I've just not finished the changing process, yet. Maybe we are never done changing?

lol yeah, this makes me think of paranoia...much of what is there is assuming a lot or maybe this guy had poor experiences with women and just typed up all their traits...

Quick question...several people have mentioned (including on other threads) that dyed hair is a red flag. Does this include dying hair to cover gray hair? Just super curious. Thanks!

That's so interesting. I handled my newborns very carefully all the time and I knew it was because I didn't know how newborns needed to be handled or could be handled and so I erred on the side of caution by being extremely gentle. People used to raise children alongside each other and we probably learned more from each other that way. I was one of so many isolated paranoid new parents hiding out at home. Even now I still wouldn't know how to do different-I think I wouldn't be able to do it safely without a complete passage of wisdom regarding the details of how to and how not to handle an infant.

Humbly, I share some things I learned from my husband quoted more or less how I remember: -if you want to playfully tease or punch an arm but don't want that done to you, you make no sense -don't wear a tight, low cut shirt if you don't want someone to stare at them -just because i'm bigger and stronger than you doesn't mean i should always physically do things so you don't have to -two alcoholic drinks for each of us isn't the same because I weigh plenty more than you -being horny or not being horny are both normal and natural states for a man Women who need the above explained are red flags, as you all know. Luckily when confronted about each of these, my logic kicked in and I submitted to the truth. So if you like someone, challenging the red flags may be worthwhile. In some cases a paradigm shift can handle many red flags at once.

It probably varies based on variables in each family. I think asking kids for their opinion on the matter says a lot. I talked to a woman recently who has 4 kids and she and her husband wanted a 5th. They asked the kids what they all wanted. The kids surprised her with questions like, "Can we afford this one?" "Will this make my Christmas present list shorter?" and "Can you guys handle another one of us and be happy?" They had another kid and honestly, the seem to be a happy and functioning family. My husband and I know that financially and health wise we are done at two but we find it interesting when we ask the kids if they would like another sibling they say no because they like all the attention we give them. When we go somewhere each of us can help one of them with something (like ice skating as a recent example). They like having a sibling and they like having a peaceful home life. When their cousins of the same age are over they have fun but feel the way the attention has been spread out among the group and things get kind of hectic. I come from a family of 6 and I love love love giving my kids what I remember yearning for.

Lots of people. Maybe there is a different world outside the US bible belt area but, here, I get asked quite frequently by women of all ages. I'm Hispanic so I'm sure that has plenty to do with it, too. Some say "you make cute babies so you should make more" which speaks to their vanity or pride. Others say I should give my kids a sibling (my kids are twins and often viewed as a unit). And still others talk about how good people should procreate more so the kids without good parents have more kids with good parents to play with. The sad reasoning never ends. Oh and apparently having children gives more glory to god so there is that, too.

I had similar thoughts on this video. I remember my kids being perfectly happy with their chest against mine or my husband's or with their head on our shoulder where they could hear our soft words. But this maneuver wouldn't ever occur to me (my hands are so small I'd be likely to drop a baby this way) and certainly not before checking the diaper, clothes, hunger level of the child, etc. It would have been nice if an explanation had been offered. What is it about this that works better than a cradle hold? Would be nice to know.

My husband had this done this year for his birthday. It was a great experience. For him, someone who has had a relationship with 4 great grandparents and none of them remember anyone not being from out of their tiny village (rural Mexico) it was interesting to see that he was part Ashkenazi Jew, related to Yo Yo Ma, and that despite his parents being distant cousins, he was able to see how far apart his parent's genetic lineages are (they give you paternal and maternal information which is cool to share with parents). He got this done in Feb. of this year. Then, just last week they emailed him health information, conditions he is likely (but not for sure) a carrier of. It was pretty interesting because he can get checked out a little more frequently for those conditions he is more likely to have. If you want more info I can look up his email and give more details of what they can share. My husband's brother had the test done, too and had a whopping 32% lineage from Africa which was interesting, whereas my husband had 4% from there. It's interesting how it can vary between siblings. I can't wait to get mine and my kids done. It's an easy sample of saliva in a test tube. I'm sad to hear it's gone up a 100 bucks lol.

haha...nope! but you knew that already lol

Kurtis-good point. I get asked much too frequently why I only have 2 children. Then I shock people when I tell them I only have that many because I got pregnant with twins. It's mind boggling to me that I have to argue with people who say "what's another mouth to feed?" or "your kids deserve a younger sibling". No, they deserve resources and stability. And that goes for myself and my husband, too. I've seen parents have many kids and then complain that because of all of them, they can't "have nice things" or "make ends meet". Whose fault is that?

Pelafina I think that intuition and feelings are rooted in logic, they can be misleading but always used in conjunction with our conscious reasoning, they can be a constant asset. So for example, I've heard that intuition is when we know something but don't have full awareness or clarity regarding that knowledge. This can be misinterpreted and manipulated and by a large number of factors so personally, whenever intuition hits or my feelings are strong about something, I apply logic and reasoning. If I don't, I can go the wrong way. But by acknowledging what seems to be vague knowledge trying to work itself out or my senses picking up information that I'd classify as incomplete raw data then I can work it out to success with logic and reasoning and only through logic and reasoning. Does that make any sense? For example, when I was about 9 or 10, I visited a farm with my family. I wandered off with a friend to an abandoned and rotting barn. We climbed to the loft area when I told her suddenly that I felt we needed to get down and out immediately. She reacted to my urgency by following me out right away. As soon as we cleared the entrance the place entirely collapsed. Then she couldn't stop talking about how I intuited our potential danger and got us out just in time. I explained later that I had noticed a strong moldy smell when we walked in...saw wood lying on the ground, thought that no one had been there in a really long time by the tall grass surrounding it. When we climbed up I heard only one creak-but it was enough to give me the thought, "what if that one creak means there could be structural issues and this could collapse?" And so while I wasn't thinking that the place would collapse, all the information my senses took in all amounted to me thinking we better be safe rather than sorry and just not take any chances. I was surprised when the place fell but I also realized that I received all the subtle (to a kid) cues that I needed to stay safe-as long as I didn't ignore them. My friend might have been following her intuition by following me so quickly without her typical slew of questions and stubborness (she was always a daredevil). This is a really silly example of course, but I think that when people say they had the intuition for something, I think they are actually relying on subtle information that they already own but maybe don't have in a fully conscious and organized and clear way. I have followed my gut feeling without using logic before and it was a monstrous fail since we are human and totally capable of paranoia and tunnel vision and what not.

My sister is an artist and just about to graduate from Chicago with a masters in fine art and so I've recently been wondering how she will fare out in the world. She is aware of how difficult it is to pay off her student loans with art and so she has a teaching certificate for stability. I've always asked myself if I like her art because it's hers or because I just do...or because its good. I walk through my local art museum and wonder if something is good or if i'm just not trained to see a good painting when I encounter one. I think what you said in your post was really helpful to me. I think I will share it with my sister and hope she doesn't hate me for it. I have talked to artists who say they try to create things that will carry a message, politically, socially, etc, and so it seems like modern art is often an expression that is not exactly phenomenal in technical design. And yet, it is very popular to see nowadays. Your example regarding Bach was excellent. I get that price offered by consumers is a huge thing but what about factors that alter what is seen as value within a culture? The Kardashians make tons of money...through distorted social value that is subjective but arguable? I don't even know what i'm saying anymore so I'm going to be done with this comment. But I appreciated the link very much, thanks! Maybe I will get back to you with my sister's comments-we'll see if I'm brave enough

I have two nieces. Both have had single moms most of their life and lots of drama. They say they don't trust their parents because their parents don't apologize or admit to any wrong and mostly because they break their word and don't follow through with actions. I'm with the others stating that honesty is the best policy. All I've ever wanted from my parents was an apology and actions to confirm that. Many of us have made mistakes-just different ones from that of single moms. I find it very admirable that those of you here are talking so openly about your experience and working so hard to do things better. Kids will learn that it's never too late to turn around and change course if it's the right thing and to be humble and honest and value truth. I'm not a single mom but I've explained to my kids that some of the choices their father and I made before they were born were not the wisest and as a result, we are pretty tight, financially. They seem to appreciate that honesty and they also never do what I did to my parents as a kid-complain that we didn't have enough money. Instead, they want to know how people make money and start businesses, they support our efforts to save, and I've heard them vow that when they are parents, they will make enough to take their kids to the beach and other fun places. Years ago that would have made me sad but now I find it inspiring and motivating to show them we are doing our best in the present moment. I don't sit around beating myself up because they want a happy mom so I try to keep my goals constantly in mind but let go of the guilt.

Anarchism...I didn't really know it was an existing idea until recently. I have been preoccupied, legitimately so, with health issues for almost all my life and my natural talents and inclinations did not easily lead me to read about economics or politics. But, I've always been curious. Anyway, I grudged along, trying to find the root of things being so unfair and dysfunctional in society and said a million stupid things while trying to figure out injustices and the causes of problems. (I'm loud and opinionated so my evolution in thought was not pretty) I never heard anything that really resonated with me, I just halfway understood the Right and halfway understood the sentiment of the Left. As a result people from both sides couldn't stand me. Or was it that I couldn't stand them nor myself? Recently and luckily, I received exposure to the ideas presented on this site and it was like food I had been starving for all along. I read Ayn Rand when I was 9 so I think deep down there was a thread of wisdom waiting for my adult self to rediscover it and really understand. And I'm glad I stayed open to information that led me here. I totally understand the sentiment many express here about how lonely and gloomy it is. I feel that, too. I wanted to share though, that there is a chance some idiot you hear talking tomorrow is in a desperate attempt to make sense of things but lacking all the fundamental knowledge but deep down hoping someone will speak the truth rather than shun. I was that idiot. And now I'm on your side. I hope there are more out there under our noses just waiting to hear something that makes real sense and enlightens them. I would have seemed a most unlikely candidate a year ago to end up here. I hope this is somehow a teeny tiny bit comforting. Of course, what I hear myself saying is that I should be courageous and talk to others about this since it was such a gift to me when someone did it. That bit is real tricky as it probably brings more loneliness and more gloom. Yet, at some point, I'm sure the scale tips our way.

I can totally relate to all that. Sounds a lot like me before getting here. I honestly feel that many people who are deeply moved by injustice and watch John Stewart and the like are so close in that they already seem to have alarm bells going off and are feeling a lot of empathy. If more of these types would get to the root of things, which is what others don't do, then I don't see how they wouldn't arrive at anarchism. To keep searching for the truth, I had to not hang out with a lot of people, I had to shun a lot of tv and other recreational activities, and like you said, take the time to do hours of research. And I believe you are correct that women are generally less analytical. I see it in my kids (i have boy/girl twins and they have really highlighted to me what gender differences can look like, especially as they are the same age). My son wants to play with circuit boards and beat me at chess and my daughter talks about being a doctor to help others and likes to paint pictures. I also remember while pregnant, feeling unlike myself and unable to concentrate at work. Anyway, I like your comments

Awesome stuff, RJ

Something I have witnessed in my life is religious people being barely religious and then being somehow scared or inspired to be much more religious. I can attest that this is very hard on a child... I can recall philosophical talks with people who were religious turning into different kinds of talks-namely, turning into preaching based on their new found strengthened beliefs. If someone already is accepts religious beliefs, what else might they accept down the road when life gets hard like when a loved one dies or they get sick? That is the concern I'd have. I grew up in the Bible Belt and have seen this wishy washiness many times.

That's a question I don't think I've ever pondered. I appreciate that I can talk to my daughter about the female perspective and my husband can talk to my son but we can also talk as a family in a way that helps my son and daughter each gain perspective from the opposite gender. I think I parent according to my kid's personalities but also inevitably their gender. As they get older I'm sure it will be important for my husband and I to talk more and more about all the challenges specific to each. I'm open to learning more about all this, though.