Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit

I think it would be really interesting if you called in about that!

Welcome to the boards. It sounds like you haven't really had the life you might have wanted for yourself. I'm sorry, that's really tough. I think it's perfectly normal to feel depression in such circumstances and I certainly feel sympathy for you about the bad therapists. I've had a few of those myself and they do more harm than good, overall. Do you feel like you've made a mistake in pursuing music and it is too late to fix it now? Edit: Maybe you'd find this article helpful in thinking about your depression in a new way? https://philosophicaltherapist.com/2017/01/11/a-brighter-perspective-on-depression/

So here is a theory of why he is resistant to self-knowledge. Obviously, if he isn't self aware, then he can do things like this that appear good and benevolent on the surface and he can feel like a noble white knight for his actions. We know that someone with self knowledge would not have made these same choices and would empathize with the young woman and recognize she is under duress and feels indebted. Therefore.....if you push him to pursue self-knowledge, he has to come to terms with the fact that he had a history of this sort of manipulation, recognized an opportunity to prey on you, and went into fast action to do so. Because right now, while he lacks the self-knowledge he doesn't have to face responsibility for his actions and you are kind of condoning and excusing his behaviours. Somewhat fairly in the sense that he lacked the tools to consciously know what he was doing (giving him the benefit of the doubt based on your answers), but at the same time, he was 45 years old and completely responsible to understand his own actions. I agree. I tried to press him on these very points about a year and a half ago and he got really angry and offended that I would suggest his motives were anything other than caring and generous. In his defense, the kind of women he had experience with would have had no moral problem with taking everything he'd put on the table and walking off with it and he didn't know me well enough at that point to know that I was different in that regard and instead just felt obligated to him. I think if I continued to push the issue, his perception would be that I am ungrateful. So he does have friends then? I don't understand the mutual friend thing.... Would these friends be aware of any of the conflicts in your marriage, or do you abstain from talking about those due to your husband's anger? I should have said acquaintances. We have people we see socially, who are either really more my friends or just acquaintances. Only a couple of them are aware of any issues between us. I discreetly talk to one or two people about our problems, who I trust will keep it to themselves, and the rest are unaware. When you say it is fear conditioned from the past, do you mean from your family relationships as a child? Again, it seems like your husband is really intelligent in the ways of [probably subconsciously] empathizing with you and then using his sense of your emotions to manipulate you. He seems really adept at recognizing how to get you to self-censor and excuse his bad behaviours and stuff. So like I said above, what incentive does he have to change himself? He will have to face his own history which will be hell for him, and he will lose this factor of plausible deniability about his intentions with respect to how he has mistreated and manipulated you! As long as he stays as he is, he can expect you to not notice or hold him responsible for his skillful awareness of your psyche and his manipulations! I do have a lot of fear of angry men, some of that probably comes from family relationships, mainly my dad. I think you're right about how he uses people's emotions to manipulate them because his entire family operates that way. As I have worked on improving myself, I stand up to these manipulations more and more. I don't get aggressive about it, but I will tell him that I'm not responsible for his feelings or that a particular thing he might be asking me to do or not do is asking me to self erase. As you can imagine, he doesn't like that at all and quickly gets frustrated. It's then very hard to have a conversation about it because he focuses in on blaming me for all the ways I'm frustrating him, instead of just taking responsibility for his own feelings and looking at the ways in which he frustrates himself. I'm probably a bit abrasive in some of these situations and that's not helpful, but I am not very skilled at asserting my boundaries yet and presently I still feel like I need to take a strong position in order to protect my boundaries from being trampled on in those situations because I'm still pretty gullible and easily manipulated if I'm not keeping a close eye out for it. Isn't this incredibly strange to you that you know a man 5 years, who wants you to have his children, and you don't know why he wants kids? And it seems questionable how badly he really wants to have the children because otherwise he would be trying to answer your questions and address your concerns so that the baby-making could commence, right? Like, if I really want a job, I make sure I am prepared to discuss in detail why I want the job, why I'm fit for the job, etc. so that I actually have a chance at getting said job. It may be a bit tedious, but I really want the job so that is not going to deter me, and in fact I'll be motivated to meet the expectations. That's a great analogy. I also think it is strange and I have been continually frustrated by it. He will either smile and nod and tell me what he thinks I want to hear or he will blow me off or he will mock my concerns, but never once have any of them actually been properly addressed. Some of these are really important things, like where we will live if our family grows or what our financial plan is if I'm not working. It's like he expects me to just trust him to take care of it all and not ask any questions, except he is shit with money and future planning, so I'm not at all comfortable with just trusting him to take care of things. I don't understand why he is so resistant to discussing these issues with me. Just curious why you didn't have any comment about my point about researching into your dating market. I'm not pushing you to dump this guy and hit the meat market or anything, I just wanted to make the point that I mentioned in the last post: when you have kids, you want to be able to tell them that you did the best you could, and this means not only from the time of birth or conception, but from the time you set out to determine who the father will be. If you take it for granted that this man is the best father out there, then you aren't really doing the best you can. Which isn't to say that he isn't the best available man, just that you maybe shouldn't base that off of a month-long courtship while you were under duress I'm surrounded by men. I would have no shortage of men lining up to take his place if we split up. So I do have some idea of what is available to me. As to brand new people, demographics don't tell me much because without really getting to know a person, I don't know if they are a better or worse option. I'm the kind of person who always has a Plan B, C, D,...Z in place, so I do keep an eye on what my options are at any given time. Not necessarily because I'm always looking to trade up, but because the person I'm with could get hit by a bus tomorrow for all I know. So it's good to know these things and I have never not been aware of my option in that regard (and have consequently never been single in my entire adult life, which may or may not be a good thing). My husband does have a lot of good qualities going for him in terms of being a father- he's good looking and very intelligent, both of which would be passed on to any children; he earns enough to support a family in which only he works and I can stay home and homeschool; he believes in investing in one's children to give them the best possible opportunities in life; he would probably be willing to do the "fun" parts of parenting with them like playing a sport with them or helping with science projects and such. He's quite good at providing for physical needs, just really bad at providing for emotional ones. When it comes to choosing a father, I think it is important to have a good marriage into which to bring children into and it would be great if I could give them an emotionally available father. But I also have to make sure they would be well provided for and would not have to be dumped into daycare or public school, so I think it would be irresponsible to say that fulfilling emotional needs trumps fulfilling physical needs. And ultimately, if I stay with him, I will be the one who is the most miserable with the situation just because of how lonely I will always feel (assuming he doesn't ever change). Thanks, I will look that up. I appreciate that you have responded on my post and I thank you for that. I'm just not sure we're on the same page. Being a pleasant and trustworthy wife got me taken for granted and I ended up miserable.

If you have a point you want to make, I'm listening.

I'm working on me being better in the relationship. My question was about getting my husband to want to put in the same effort. I have a lot of guidance on what I need to be doing and I'm making it a priority in my life. I am frustrated that my husband does not see its importance.

My husband also dislikes Stef, but not to the same degree that your gf seems to. I don't agree with the advice that you give up something you like just to please her. That is self-erasing and not something she has any right to ask of you or expect of you. Might she be open to couples therapy to explore these issues of why you have no-go zones in your relationship and why she feels so upset about Stef?

Spenc, I missed your post last time I checked this thread. Sorry about that. I'm curious, how would you rate the character of your husband based on this 'courtship'? Or generally, any financially stable 45-year old man with highly limited personal skills picking up a young woman at her lowest point and springing a proposal on her when her only other options would be like a women's shelter or something? Have you discussed this with your husband or in counseling? It seems like you're not 'supposed to' talk about this, as you mention below that he a) lied in addition to preying on you at your weakest; and b) was upset when you shared this info with a friend. How would he react to you saying the marriage was a mistake at the outset? I feel very confused about it. I have had people tell me that what he did was predatory and I have had people tell me that what he did was caring. I do lean more towards believing it came from a caring place, or at least that he believes he was being caring. I have tried to discuss it with him and he gets very defensive because he thinks I must be criticising him, questioning his motives, etc. He had purchased a place for me to live (though we didn't close on it until two months later) and had given me a ring that was worth quite a bit. In his view, he was giving me a choice because I could have kept these things and used them to start a new life for myself, but in my view, I felt indebted to him. I couldn't have walked off and felt okay about accepting so much from him. If I said the marriage was a mistake, he'd probably feel hurt, but would react with anger and accusations. So, how nervous are you then posting information on this forum? Aside from your voice, you could be equally anonymous on a call with Stef. Can you explain what you mean when you say you are "fearful" of involving other people or trying to talk to him? Is there a physical threat, or is this a fear conditioned in you from your past that he exploits now? He doesn't know I post here and afaik, we don't have any mutual friends who also read these boards. We do have a lot of mutual friends who listen to the show, however. So I feel like the boards are more anonymous than a call. I don't think he would ever physically hurt me, so probably more a conditioned fear based on past experiences. Is your husband already open or accepting to your hope of having children? And do you sense he is genuinely accepting of children for growing your family as opposed to a) conceding children to you so that he can always hold that over you that he made a major compromise; or b) a way to further lock you into a marriage where he does not meet your needs. He is constantly holding it over my head that we don't have children yet and blaming me for ruining things by postponing it. I have tried on a number of occasions to have a serious conversation about having children, but in his mind, it was a foregone conclusion that we would do this when we got married (he says he sees no point in marriage if it doesn't result in children) and he doesn't think there is anything to discuss. I have legitimate concerns about having children and my attempts to address these issues with him, either just with each other or in therapy, have come to nothing. I do not know why he wants children, if he actually does want children (as opposed to just feeling like that is what people are supposed to do), how he would function as a parent, what his plans are for the future in terms of providing for a family, etc. In my mind, there are a lot of variables and uncertainties that I want addressed before making such a big decision and he doesn't take any of them seriously. Like, what is really keeping you two together for the rest of your lives? What are the chances that if he is refusing to change that you are actually going to carry on with this for 30 more years, and be there to care for him in his old age and give him comfort as he slips into the mortal abyss? Obviously, if you have kids, he gets you locked in for 18 more years, and even if the marriage breaks up at that point once the child-rearing is done, he gets a kid or two as indentured servants to accommodate his behaviour. It's a good question because we don't have very much in common at all.

I don't think he is a narcissist and he does have good qualities, too. We just don't have a close relationship at all. He says he wants to learn about intimacy, but then doesn't want to do anything that would increase his knowledge. It's a common pattern in all areas of his life that he says he wants something but isn't willing to put in the hard yards to get it. I know he might not ever be interested in SK, which is why I asked in my original post if anyone had experience in making a successful marriage when one partner is resistant to SK.

1. Out of curiosity, why were you attracted to him in the first place? Why did you think a lifelong relationship was a good idea in the past when you were proposed marriage? It might kind of give him a shake to the head if you gave him a breakdown of how he is a) different than he was in the beginning when you fell in love; b) in contrast, the same as he was back then and has not grown as a person in all this time; and/or c) different than how you (as an individual or as a couple) had envisioned when you planned your lives together, thus creating a disappointment in your lives. I was in a really bad situation and he provided the means for me to escape. We had a very short courtship. He proposed initially within one week. I accepted after 3 months. In the aftermath of getting out of that bad situation, I was not in any position to be making life changing decisions, but I was scared, vulnerable, and desperate and he seemed like my best option. After we were engaged, I started uncovering some major lies, but I looked past them because I didn't think I had any better option. Saying no at that point would have left me with nowhere to live, no job, nothing. Lies aside, he was an attractive guy, he was nice to me, he was financially stable, etc. I didn't really know him well as a person, but from where I was sitting at the time, it looked pretty good. In retrospect, with the benefit of the SK I have now and did not have then, it was a very poor decision to marry him. 2. I would actually say the best course of action, based on the limited knowledge I have from this thread, would be for you to participate in a call-in show, have a lengthy chat with Stef to uncover some core issues in the relationship and with yourself and him as individuals. Then sit down and have him listen to the episode with you and see how he reacts and proceeds from there. 3. If you're not open to the idea of calling in, I would suggest maybe you try to do like a role play type of thing within your own mind, or maybe with a friend or someone who you trust and is familiar with your relationship and can help. Basically, write down like a movie script or however you would do it a dialogue of you either talking about the relationship the way you might in the call-in show or if you were talking directly to him. Have him sit down with you and read through it and again, see how he reacts and proceeds from there. I would feel very nervous to do that. He would be furious with me for calling in and talking publicly about our problems. I once mentioned to a friend a couple years ago that he had lied to me to get me to marry him and he still throws that in my face about how I violated his privacy every time we argue. The same issue would apply if I involved a friend. He does not have any friends and does not like any of mine. :-( He is also very reluctant in counselling to talk about any issues I have, as well. I have been yelled at for bringing up things that it turned out he did not want discussed, but hadn't told me beforehand. I feel very fearful of involving other people now or trying to talk to him about the concerns I have about our relationship. What is your sexual market value? I'll assume you are 30-33, but you could also be referring to like a baseline fertility with higher risks of problems which would put you at 37-40. I'm 32, he is 50. I don't think I'd have any trouble attracting men if I went out looking; I'm just not sure they would be an improvement. I feel like it would be a very risky move because I might not find anyone I like better. I could be easily trading in my husband for someone with the same or similar problems and settling just because I'm too scared about not being able to have kids. My preference would be to make things work with him. Even if he's not willing to change, I'm hoping/wondering if there is a way to at least get along peacefully so we can raise a family. I am presently under constant attack for my SK work. That's why I asked how to get him interested because I thought if he were interested, we could stop fighting about what I'm doing.

A4E, he has no friends. He says he doesn't need or want friends, that he has his family (who all live in another country), and he is often very critical of me and my need for friends and how important it is to me to have friends. Bastii, thanks for the recommendation. I'll look it up. :-) Drew, I want to have kids and am in my last few fertile years. I don't feel like I have time for much more patience on this issue. Do I just accept that this is how he is, for better or worse, and resign myself to it and having a family with someone not interested in intimacy, or should this be a deal breaker and I move on?

Drew, you may well be right. He would have to face some really uncomfortable truths about his family and it would shake him to the core, I think. A4E, he's not a conversationalist. Even getting a yes/no answer out of him is like pulling teeth. He never offers up information. If I want a conversation with him, I have to drive it and then I'm accused of "interrogating" him by asking too many questions. I feel like I can't win. Perhaps asking how to get him interested in SK was premature. Maybe I should have asked how can I get him to open up about himself? We've been married almost 5 years and I have next to no insight as to how he thinks or feels.

I was put in daycare from 6 weeks old. When I asked my mother recently why she did that, she said it was because they couldn't afford for her not to work. She didn't get paid maternity leave. And lots of babies get put in daycare so she figured it was fine. I don't think she ever thought too much about it. She later became a SAHM, working part time from when I was 10 and quitting work entirely when I was about 15. A bit late for me, but I guess it benefitted my younger siblings. But the main factor in that decision was that daycare for all of us was costing more than she earned so my patents decided it made financial sense for her to quit.

He's not trying to improve on anything; that's the problem. We have heaps of books he could read, but he prefers to spend his free time in his iPad. He's a typical avoidant personality who thinks other people have flaws they need to fix, but he doesn't. It's very hard to get him to look critically at himself or how he contributes to problems. Interestingly, he does occasionally come to counseling with me and will seem to appreciate what we do there or have a light bulb moment, but then he does nothing with it afterwards. My perception of him in general is that he's a person who wants a good life but isn't willing to be disciplined enough to put in the hard yards to get there. He inevitably takes the path of least resistance in all areas of his life.

My husband has zero interest in self knowledge. His lack of interest is, in my opinion, hurting our marriage and preventing us from fixing existing issues. He seems to think SK is great for me, but doesn't see the need for it himself. How can I get him interested? And if that's not possible, what hope is there for our relationship going forward? Do any of you have successful relationships with partners who are not at all interested in SK?

I'm one of those people who thinks it's an arbitrary time to focus on self-improvement. If I identify something I want to do better with, I start on it then and there. I don't feel like I need to wait for a specific date. January 1st is just another day. So I have no specific resolutions.

https://youtu.be/GW3viDnFP6A A friend of mine has made a short video that some of you might find interesting. She talks about how feminism encourages mentally unhealthy behaviours and thought patterns and how ditching feminism helped her improve her life.

How can something full of cat pictures possibly ruin anyone's life?

Welcome! I'm also in Melbourne. :-)

You mean Tornado Alley? :-p

I'm an American expat to Australia, been here about 5 years now. If you're looking for freedom, you won't find it here. What you will find is one big nanny state and a whole lot of people with an entitlement mentality who can't take responsibility for themselves. I would never recommend Australia for anyone freedom-minded.

I'm a bit bored with all the election gossip. I understand it's relevant and timely, but I much prefer the call in shows. There aren't many shows I download at the moment because they all seem the same. Recap the debates, recent Wikileaks revelations, why Clinton is a witch, why Trump is our only hope, etc. It's all a bit tedious and pushing the same message. I hope after the election that there will be more variety to the show again.

I find these kinds of women want a man to worship her beauty and spend all his resources on her, but don't want to reciprocate anything. They have usually never thought about whether or not there is anything about them that justifies them being treated that well. They just want to be spoiled and served.

Entitled bitches, usually. Why do you ask?

As someone who has had experience with serious lies at the start of a relationship, I would back off until you can figure out why he lied and be prepared to walk away if you aren't satisfied with his honesty.

I also live in Melbourne. It sucks.