RichardY

I didn't use the term understand, though if God exists, whatever that means, how can a person understand the idea of God? I avoided using the term impression, as if ideas are formed according to David Hume in part by empirical impressions, how is one supposed to receive an impression from God? For instance, a person may have the impression of morality, without then going onto to codify it, into an ethical system, by the use of reason. I don't know. But how is a person supposed to argue against an idea, if it does not have some degree of validity. It should be dismissed, indeed if it has zero degree of validity it will not register, not have it turned into some form of identity. "I'm Spartacus!" Unless of cause it has validity, which Atheism continues to give to the idea of God. I say believe in the idea, and not the idea itself. As it has many different definitions none of them meaningful to me, but nevertheless prominent enough, to have oceans of blood spilled.

Even an Atheist believes in the idea of God. So if Atheists are delusional, some part of their thinking is. If Atheists are not delusional(they can't be, if God is a delusion), and Theists are, then some of their thinking is still delusional, as they hold the idea of God. Another option is that God is an illusion. If so, how does one resolve an illusion? ---------------------------------- Typically I think conservatives are dogmatists. ------------------------------ Haven't paid any attention to "memes" on Atheism and leftism, sounds more like SPAM.

@ofd I tend to think of the movies and how many character names have a wider meaning, so that's it not just basic biological urges, but more linguistic and reality structuring. It's not like characters have generic names like Jack & Gill, usually. Even if they do, usually has some meaning within the context of the story. Either the phenomena of consciousness must have some form of utillity. Or has the ability to structure reality itself. If it has some form of utility or disutility, then the question "should" be, how best to reason with that information. Perhaps I'll look at the books you recommended. If not the Psychoanayltic unconsious mind, then some other theory of mental processing might be interesting. Only so many ways to crack an egg.

The Deer Hunter & The Mothman Prophecies come to mind when I hear Pittsburgh. A city just like anyother? lol even Silence of the Lambs.

However I don't think Bitcoin will work, as if it represents shares as money or a form of accounting. It has been tried before by a Scottish Economist John Law in pre-revolutionary France. Although only Wikipedia level of knowledge here.

Reference to Gresham's Law. Bad Money, drives out Good. Meaning people spend the declining value of the bad money first, holding on to the more valuable money, usually in anticipation of an "increasing money supply"(Inflation: classical definition). As long as Bitcoin is considered money it should be subject to this law. Reading briefly that Bitcoin can be subdivded infintely in potentiality on consensus. Perhaps for Bitcoin to be viable as it is mostly speculation(?) at this point it would have to represent shares of the total economy or be the unit of account? Still has to be some level of transaction in bitcoin in which case it should receive a premium for it's use as money. For instance, various metals maybe rarer than gold, while having desireable qualities, however as they are not widely valued they do not have that additional premium.

I am Jack's raging bile duct.

How isn't that equivalent of the freudian conception of the unconscious then? A motivating factor being the pleasure pincinple? I haven't read into it, but is the moist robot hypothesis a good analogy of what you mean. I think I heard Scott Adams mention that he was involved with hypnosis, wouldn't that be more in accordant with the unconsious mind? I find the notion of the unconscious mind really hard to let go of basically certain of it, when I would have dismissed the notion a decade a go(especially Rands criticism), a kind of photocopier and organiser of history. The only other theory being a kind of subconscious, in which case, affirmations, NLP self help techniques should in theory propel mankind to unprecendented and accelerating individual acheivement, an every emerging number of "Randian" or randy..... heroes. Would you say that consciousness is the result of some form of error then? What unites all the varying processes into a percevied single unity?

Basicially Spinoza's reasoning at the end of his book "The Ethics". He also ridicules Descartes idea of the body being influenced by animal spirits via the pineal gland. The so called third eye in the occult.

@ticketyboo I'm always interested in different forums or avenues to explore and aquire ideas. If you know any? Right wing Left wing, I don't care. I think the shift of focus from abstract philosophy & peaceful parenting(still important) to things like the situation in S.Africa as the last bastion of western technological and cultural influence. Like the woman having her head drilled in, plus the referencing of the angle grinder.(like the movie Scarface) . Puts a lot of people off, kind of like the expression, not when I'm eating. How do you process something like that? Not particularly good for advertisers, kind of the opposite of makes friends and influence people. Although has an affect on other Youtubers that spread the idea of freedom, filters down and spreads. Yeah I guess forums aren't perhaps as popular, plus the monitoring overhead. One thing I have noticed is a lot less trolling(possibly as the subjects become more dire), although less conscious. Looked at various generic philosophy & history forums and a "Actualization forum"(although too many deepities and what Freud would call oceanic personalities OR Lefties, still appreciate different views at the very least as entertainment), but more book smart and seemingly public intellectuals on the take and wedded to their conclusions. Or students with their favourite reads, no locking horns just taste. To me I find "philosophising" more interesting than computer games, which I was pretty addicted to. Need a greater fix.

When you say consciousness is a modular unit. Do you mean? 1)a) Something akin to seperate video/sensory feeds. With a Freudian unconscious, as a repository or dead city as described in "Civilization and it's Discontents". At best "compatibilism"(still determinism though), as actions can be empirically observed. b) Having listened to Spinoza's "The Ethics", that would be a unitary, although not modular consciousness. He concludes Hard Determinism, "as we know not what, from where our actions come". Found Spinoza's The Ethics much better, than Freud's "Civilization and it's Discontents". Although both their views seem very similar. 2) Actual living complexes and subpersonalities within consciousness. Jungian unconscious. I think Jung's conception of consciousness might be similar to Leibniz's Monadology. "The Best of all possible Worlds", seems a bit off however. It's personally the metaphysic that makes the most sense to me so far. 3.) Something else.

Similar to FDR? or something different?, used an unofficial FDR Discord server a while a go, though probably not what you're looking for. I guess whatever system would have to be some incentive to setup and attract people. Maybe there's some decent computing forums out there somewhere, providing a rational base of people in general. At any rate, maybe they'd have an answer.

@Jsbrads Wouldn't God in itself be cause less? So that a first cause would not apply? So I guess it is possible to be good and be amoral, and not ethical? Or perhaps not moral, but still have an ethic, so that God would be perfectly ethical but not moral? If the Devil has passion though, perhaps he is moral but not ethical? Assuming the devil has at least some meta-psychological basis.

@Jsbrads Are you an atheist? ------------- One thing I don't quite get. Is say God, is not fantasy. Might evil be preferable to non-existence? The thought of being consigned to oblivion, as being worse than evil. But lets say there is God, a heaven or a metaphysical/real hell. How is being in heaven superior to being in hell? Do you want to live forever? There is of course eastern conceptions of religions.

@PillPuppetPoet I started reading Plato's Republic a while a go, only read a few pages into it. Stopped reading it, as if you follow the logic, he basically says the notion of the state is absurd, but lets have one anyway. 2000 years + and you'd think in a sane world that point would be more prominent. Bit like watching the moive the 6th sense and realisng Bruce Willis is dead in the first 5 minutes of the movie. Listened to some of the Socratic Dialogues didn't particularly like the language in the later dialogues. Where as Aristotle has the state based on blood.... relations. Hills have eyes and Coneheads. But as Stefans said recently, trillions of dollars are tied up in the state. "Welfare", Military, "Education", "Charities", The Church etc. If the I.Q of Ancient Greece was 120+, how is a non state going to happen. Was listening to David Humes "a treatise on Human understanding" today, thought it interesting that justice is classified by him as an artificial virtue based on scarcity. Personally think an Aristocratic Republic would be ace, just have the state in and seen to be in the domain of force. Better would be no state, but if the mirage is real to many and still real despite reason and logic.... Well I guess Plato's argument perhaps.

Thought the message was all the more "powerful?" (perhaps not the appropriate word) for being non-dualistic.

Something like Steam would be cool, pay 5p - 10p a video, add up pretty fast. Or a Doomsday Machine. Strangelove : Mr. President, the technology required is easily within the means of even the smallest nuclear power. It requires only the will to do so. Muffley: But, how is it possible for this thing to be triggered automatically, and at the same time impossible to untrigger? Strangelove: Mr. President, it is not only possible, it is essential. That is the whole idea of this machine, you know. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy… the fear to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision making process which rules out human meddling, the doomsday machine is terrifying. It’s simple to understand. And completely credible, and convincing. … Muffley: But this is fantastic, Strangelove. How can it be triggered automatically? Strangelove: Well, it’s remarkably simple to do that. When you merely wish to bury bombs, there is no limit to the size. After that they are connected to a gigantic complex of computers. Now then, a specific and clearly defined set of circumstances, under which the bombs are to be exploded, is programmed into a tape memory bank.

@dataguy Old boys club. Collectivist mindset. You can't play by their rules, which are contradictory. What to do, not really sure, a lot of thoughts come to mind...., productive action other than what Stefan is doing??? Some coordination might be helpful. For the most part I don't think it is intentional, but unconscious. Whats annoying sometimes is when collectivists contradict themselves within the same sentence or paragraph. Like with the concentration camps, killing individuals. Cubans, Boers and Europeans. None of my relatives were killed, not that I have that many. Had a grandfather POW(was a pilot), that was going to be shipped to the gas chambers at Leipzig before the train tracks were bombed by the RAF. Was interesting reading his diary that the behaviour of the station attendants was similar("friendly"), as described in a similar situation "Mans Search for Meaning" Vicktor Frankl, though the people weren't as fortunate, pretty horrific reading the book.

Government could help to increase the number of slaves as a form of money? Romans or modern day China. Haul back Silver & Gold in massive treasure ships like with the Spanish Empire, as referenced in "The Wealth of Nations". That would increase the money supply, lower interest rates, but potentially increase inflation, cause stagnation technologically and upset some people. If government did help to increase the money supply, what would be worth spending it on? I guess drugs could be used as a form of money, the addictive properties of some making it useful currency. Tobacco sometimes was used as currency.

@perrymiller821 Sound a bit like Renfield from Dracula, with obsession about life. --------------- He was interrupted by a word from the Professor, ‘How?’‘ By making them happen. Just as he used to send in the flies when the sun was shining. Great big fat ones with steel and sapphire on their wings. And big moths, in the night, with skull and cross-bones on their backs.’ Van Helsing nodded to him as he whispered to me unconsciously,‘The Acherontia Atropos of the Sphinges, what you call the ‘Death’s-head Moth’?’ The patient went on without stopping, ‘Then he began to whisper.‘Rats, rats, rats! Hundreds, thousands, millions of them, and every one a life. And dogs to eat them, and cats too. All lives! All red blood, with years of life in it, and not merely buzzing flies!’ I laughed at him, for I wanted to see what he could do. Then the dogs howled, away beyond the dark trees in His house. He beckoned me to the window. I got up and looked out, and He raised his hands, and seemed to call out without using any words. A dark mass spread over the grass, coming on like the shape of a flame of fire. And then He moved the mist to the right and left, and I could see that there were thousands of rats with their eyes blazing red, like His only smaller. He held up his hand, and they all stopped, and I thought he seemed to be saying, ‘All these lives will I give you, ay, and many more and greater, through countless ages, if you will fall down and worship me!’ ------------------------------------- So are you arguing for some kind of Immanent God?

Yes that would accurate, almost. Where useful and real collide and one takes precedent, I think you have either a "Brute" force Will to Power(useful) or a Psychopath(real). Overhead: Yeah the reliance on centralised banking and financial institutions, just seems insane to me. Have a cousin who works on designing transaction software for a bank. I think of all the large institutions in London and plethora of offices & servers, and think of how wasteful to have all that stuff. I mean probably a lot of it is bleed over from the inefficiency and corruption of the state. If things were still largely done on paper record, Armageddon. ------------------- Unit of Account. I mean there was Goldcoin or something but it got shutdown very quickly, would have thought merchants would be pretty quick to try and stabilise price fluctuations against a tangible asset. My knowledge of finance is pretty limited, but isn't a big problem with the current fiat system that derivatives are used to try and stabilise rates. Perhaps this is where Bitcoin can be useful as a "deflationary asset" as you said. However, why wouldn't someone subdivide a bitcoin? Wouldn't that effectively nullify the deflation. It would have to takeover completely as THE unit of account? Projection Yeah I would say Bitcoin is real, even though it's perhaps the wrong question to ask. I think what puts me off is despite the various innovations in finance. It relies on projection, not good or bad in itself. Into the psychological domain, which will make or break bitcoin/Civilization. I think this area is key, hardly have any understanding. The mechanism. Maybe if bitcoin helps make processing real quick, everyone can use non propriety applications and formats an open style version of excel! I saw a documentary on Google once that they were doing a lot of their information keeping on Excel, before they got a CEO. I mean they use linux a lot on airplanes when watching movies. I guess a lot of it has to do with the sweet deal Oracle has got going with state contracts? Nassim Taleb. I listened to his book "Skin in the Game". a while a go, after I heard it recommended listening to another book "Thinking Fast & Slow". (Daniel Kahemann, a friend or something of Nassim). Was basically about inductive and deductive thinking. System one (inductive) Thinking Fast. System Two (deductive) Thinking slow. To further elaborate on my own inductions. I think System Two (Extroverted) is Executive and objective thinking revolving around certainty, but also collectivist in nature. High Conscientiousness. Low Neural activity with potential to ramp up. Extreme case Psychopath. Where as System One (Introverted) the older system is subjective thinking and individualistic, survival orientated, Low Conscientiousness. High Neural Activity. Extreme case Schizophrenic. Personally more system one dominant. However given the present overwhelming advantage of executive thinking for the last several hundred years. As technology has advanced and been widely recorded. Makes more sense evolutionary to slave greater numbers of minds together (System 2) for the gain in processing power, even if they maybe in error or depraved, unless it ends up in resulting in a catastrophic crash. Was thinking about listening to "Black Swan" so I think I'll probably do that sometime. I thought his critique of Kant was interesting in "Skin in the Game" and I agree with the sentiment of the book. Buying Bitcoin Makes sense that another crash or the crash has been only temporarily postponed the way things continue to go. That Bitcoin may have more practical & psychological interest relative to the dollar. Although if Trump is successful in re-negoitating with the Chinese, perhaps a soft landing rather than a hard one. I guess if society were more stable the dollar would be doomed as an alternative to Bitcoin. But if society were stable, I think alternatives such as energy as currency would be more widely considered. Bitcoin Plutocracy- I would agree with Aristotle that an Aristocracy is based on education. If Bitcoin were to lead to a Plutocracy instead of Aristocracy, through market share, that would be much worse than the current financial situation, imo for everyone. Personally I don't mind having a budget utilitarian smartphone and various other possessions. Although some have to have the latest apple iphone or Samsung Galaxy etc Primarily for the status symbol. What experiences could someone have with a billion dollars that they can't have with a million or far far less? My point being that relative abundance and availability of wealth that has increased massively, nullifies a Plutocracy, which can only be maintained by the infliction of various kinds of suffering and/or a general deprivation of goods. 1. I think that would depend on if the "mint" premium of bitcoin, is sufficient compensation/reward to warrant the risk of a non secure asset. 2. I would say substance takes precedent over tangibility, gold certificates as more practical and substantive than physical gold. When you say dealing with inflation risk, how is subdividing a bitcoin not an inflation risk? And why wouldn't a bank carry on with fractional reserve banking in one form or another. The Rothbardian Anarcho-Capitalist position requires 100% capital reserves. How is such a system possible with Bitcoin? 3. I would say your level of financial acumen is superior to mine. I don't think you are being condescending or in anyway unprofessional. Google helps with terminology. I've read Von Mises Human Action and some of a "theory of money and credit" a while a go. The rest of my knowledge various podcasts, videos, articles etc. 4. I would say no, it is subjective. In terms of extrinsic value of PM's I suppose you could make a mirror out of them, get a nice tan. However, bitcoin does rely on a collectivist mindset in order to succeed. Where as PM's have the sexual market magpie value usually, not to mention numerous technological uses, in addition to other qualities that make it useful as money. If there were a BitGold........, why wouldn't that take a precedent to a purely real solution. Lot to take in and process, muse over, or not.

Hurrah Collectivism. No individualistic settling of disputes, just massive tribal warfare. Bulk of the world being collectivist. Unconscious bias. Given modern technology and lack of geographical separation. Collectivism winning big time. Some ability to choose between Left and Right, virtually none between collectivism and individualism.

@Freedom4the The essential quality of a philosopher is trust. Just as the essential quality of a Christian is faith. It is the spirit that matters, and not the content. Why so much focus and action on peaceful parenting and education? Not that audio books aren't a help, in furthering understanding. Henry David Thoreau, David Hume, & Bram Stroker. Helped to crystallise the idea of trust to me being a quality of a philosopher. Which is why Nietzsche is a Philologist & Psychologist, but not a philosopher, he does not trust. Is to trust more exhausting, than not to? How many lecturers and professors trust to speak publicly and openly about things they know to be true and important to civilization?

@barnJust find it frustrating that there seem to be so few sources to learn from. Why have only two people on a video or on a stage debating, discussing. When a forum permits many. I think it would be better if there was some form of feedback with votes. A better user interface, although the layout of this forum is pleasant on the eye. Thinking of how developed video games are, compared to forum software. To lock horns & cooperate. I don't get why forums like reddit and many others are so popular.

Instead of trying to be the highest intelligence. Why not just accept there were people, however flawed, that were imo much more intelligent than modern man. Yeah ok they were human, but they're dead. Even though what they wrote remains, the intelligence has lived on. My point is to think of contemporary humanity as a high point in intelligence, and not some other entity, be it God, Consciousness, Ancients or Aliens. Would be a mistake, instead of trying to assume the mantle. You perhaps can be intelligent by assimilating knowledge, even if you're not fully conscious of it.