RichardY

Ok then, problem resolved.

Ok so let's say I believe there is an all encompassing Zionist conspiracy to takeover the world. What are you supposed to do exactly?

Yeah this is what disturbs me about the book "Brave New World". More than "1984". Listening to songs with overt themes is one thing. "Puff the Maigc Dragon","Nelly the elephant" "the frog song" for example vs songs with "no themes", that lead to conscious or unconscious speculation. What's the motive? Anyone can throw together some cr*p, but who decides who publishes it? Are they people you trust. How does a person or child structure their world?

I think freedom of speech is fine, as long as you have freedom of association. Otherwise you have no option but to put up with what's said, which maybe untrue and sophistry. Which maybe fine if you're a leftist and take an unconsious statistical-status approach to oblivion. In war you have no freedom of association. Don't tend to trust anyone, though I trust Stefan more than anyone, except myself. Can't really fault him for the most part, actions speak louder than words and by publically supporting Trump and Tommy, hard to find fault. By extension tend to trust Tom Woods, Lauren Southern etc. I think "Speaking truth to power" is a poor phrase, especially if "power" already knew or knows the truth and chose to reject it. Kind like what Jordan Peterson says about initally lying and then becominng unconscious of it. Read that Noam Chomsky said something similar. Can't see why not to cherry pick ideas. Was annoyed about "Why I was wrong about Brexit" especially when Stefan did not live or speak to anyone in the areas most effected by immigration. Nationalists can be awesome unsung heroes, but I find they're prone to infighting,division, betrayal and paranoia. But with good reason. Though they are more inclined to get things done, at least before they get utterly destroyed by the power that be. Although Tommy did a lot, he had support amoung the working class community initally, before he went completely independent, can hardly imagine that strength to stand alone. It was the BNP that did most of the investigation into the "grooming gangs" & "MP Expenses scandal" partly for political gains, they had the funding and people. Having said that always curious what better sources of truth there might be? I guess other than actually being at some of places and issues talked about can't do much better than FDR. What I like about Jordan Peterson is. Here are the recurrent themes and here is this and this source. Here's what I think but, draw your own conclusion. The guy is prolific, I think it would be unfair to say he has allies in the same way the alt right says. Just because he was on Ben Shapiro or Joe Rogan (Neither of which I trust) show does not make him an ally of his. If Jordan Peterson provided a conduit to a wealth of information, why not just accept that, draw your own conclusions. Lot of second hand sources simialar to Stefans, but they lack the intiative and philosophical content imho although they are smoother on the ears and eyes, have more views and are shorter.

Yes there is little to regulate behaviour in a relative excess and disproportionate spread of resources. Found it funny that Sweden is the most rational AND expressive country in the world. According to a recent post. Perhaps another way to regulate behaviour would be to read various thinkers from the past, and adjust to that. Read a similar idea in "Modern Man in Search of a Soul" Carl Jung. I read that the stanford prison experiments, were a fraud yesterday though.

Survival vs Self Expression Traditional vs Secular "Rational" Really, Sweden a rational country? The most rational in the world? AND the most expressive? Also worth noting is that only a few decades a go, Norway was dirt poor. Until North sea oil. I think Sweden might have been different with steel and various manufactruing industries eg. Husquvarna. Norway is way more nationalistic with their Norway day where they dress up and parade, was kind of different seeing that. I think there's the whole German collaboration thing that marred the Swedes a bit, apparently many people said the King was sympathetic to the German Reich. It's funny because I've seen a lot more churches in Norway and the UK than in supposedly more religious countries like Spain. Also I heard that swearing is related more to religion, where as in the Uk it's sexual swears. Ok just speaking about Norway, I was only briefly in Sweden on a small campervan trip down the coast from Hvisten in Norway. Like 6 GBP for a f*cking frozen pizza from a supermarket, can get a decent good quality frozen takeway one in the UK for 2GBP in Morrisons. UK is also quite good on special offers, has an excellent variety of produce available. They also reduce the prices of things to like 0.09p to clear before the sell by date. 10GBP for 500ml of beer vs 3.50GBP for a Pint outside of London. (Lucky I don't really drink). Petrol(Gasoline) is expensive 1.29GBP a litre in the UK I'm sure Norway is more. Complete lack of corner stores for minor groceries. Can get charity shops in the UK, thrift stores in Canada and the USA. European countries tend to lack them. Cheap books, clothes(sometimes new) etc Literally no fresh fish in the north of Norway, unless you fish it yourself, which a lot of German tourists do. Can get Cod and Chips easy in the UK. They pay into medical insurance in Norway over 1,500 GBP a year I think, probably more I don't know. I think rent is compareable but, with all the new Swedes probably higher now. Such as? The massive welfare states probably don't help in Sweden. I remember one podcast talking about rooms going for 250 Euros a night to house migrants, when they had a massive influx before last winter or the one before.

Anyone accept what I said was true? Speak now or forever hold your peace? Constant projection.

Really what country is that? Could see on your profile that you live in Scandanavia. Planning a trip to Scandanvia currently, looking at Norway. I reckon that the most individualistic countries are Iceland>Norway,>Sweden>Denmark>UK>Finland. I guess if you can overcome that negative ostracism ( no easy feat). It' s not like your excluded from participating in the culutre as such, just becomes a lot more difficult, especially considering how expensive things are in Scandanavia.

Not good for Tommy'y health. He could be murd ered in any number of ways, and I reckon they can get away with it. Speaking truth to power is worse than useless. Truth to others perhaps discomforting, but potentially amusing. Perhaps what matters is what connections you can form with people, if you can. Like the Trump & Hilary election anyone that supports mass murd er and rap e is evil, those that oppose it are good. Sounds cartoonish even. Not denying however that there's not necessarily a darker element to a persons personality that wants carnage. Tend to have a sardonic or black humour. As I said ages a go I think military takeover or bust, but in the realms of fantasy almost. Anything else is going to be long and bloody imo. Not that the miltary could work out worse. Still anyone who supports Tommy is a small hero. 6 or 7 police officers to arrest one guy.. Could have sent 1 or 2, blatentcy of the act.

Really, where? Why not just focus on the mind for the sake of it? Plenty of bodybuilding forums. But, how many decent philosophical ones? Do it purely out of entertainment, desire for certainty.

Expensive city Kelowna. I was backpacking there over 5 years a go. Stayyed with a Swiss Canadian family, helped with looking after their animals and small farm. I think they were Messianic Jews, ran a small bakery business. (apparently there's a lack of small bakers in Canada) Though they did various charity works. Lot of homeless people in Kelowna, was kind of surprised, apparantly the city buses them to Vancouver in the summer months. Like a million dollars avg home price in vancouver. Surprising how many insane laws they have in Canada, and how funny Kelowna is about alcohol requiring 2 forms of ID, when I was there, pft passport not good enough.

Consistent straw manning. Changing the goalposts. Asking for answers to impossible (which you acknowledge) and illogical questions. Gaslighting. Projection(or Lying), Sophistry, Patronising. @smarterthanoneFrom now on, my tone will be hostile. My interests are to harvest knowledge relating to philosophy and psychology from the forum. In terms of doing philosophy, writing on the forum is not doing philosophy, having a show or talking in public to people about ethics, epistemology etc, is doing philosophy.

Blackmail can't be a good if it profits from immoral behaviour.

No Heroes. Antiheroes would be awesome. In case my examples were disconcerting.

Personally I think J Peterson is disliked/seen as a threat, because he buries the idea of god in mythos. As opposed to a more manifest God. I think that's hard to take if you've structured your being around a devotion to the diety. Especially if you're highly conscientious which I believe people like Vox Day and Alex Jones are. In terms of heroes. I think an Antihero would be awesome, Death Wish or Taxi Driver style.

Thought it was interesting that Sweden mobilised it's military maybe a week a go, not much been on the news. Cpt Sweden to the rescue, against Russia. Conventional miltary still probably useful in suppresion.......

There is no treatment, the therapist is now a robot. Any "treatment" is an assembly line. I didn't say that. Because you acknowledge your thought experiment as impossible, but expect me to provide an answer. The trolley problem is ridiculous ,so is the monkey and typewriters as well. Utilitarinism is garbage. You provide no objective evidence what so ever. You expect me to agree with you, just for the sake of it, which I will not do. The experiment is impossible & illogical, but the psychological reality, maybe very real. I prefer my own mind. Smarter than One.........

My point is no immoral behaviour or the feeling of immoral behaviour. No Blackmail. Blackmail isn't a punishment. Why tell the other person if you don't do X, I'll tell so and so. It's manipulation with the potential for extortion. Blackmail doesn't profit it's a means.

Yeah I don't think chance enters into. I think beign "lucky" you didn't turn the pedestrian into pizza, is the wrong way of looking at it. Rather they should concentrate on the road. If a lightning bolt however hit a tree ( or deer bolted out at night), and the tree missed crushing your car, I guess you could say that was lucky. Not so much if the tree crushed someone else, unless it were a disliked motheringlaw or something.

I'm not making another example. If you're saying the therapist determines, how is that not saying that the therapist has freewill. If in contrast the therapist adivses it presupposes both have freewill. If he "diagnoses" that presupposes determinism and he's no longer a therapist. I was pointing out that the language itself has to be reworded(newspeak) or better attended to, if you presuppose determinism. It's not possible, for any person with high consciousness. Essentially it is, collective solipsism.(Double think) Or the Best of Both Worlds. Laying claim to morality for example, whilst rejecting morality through determinism is not logical. (I read your post on the military internship being immoral) I try to refrain from thinking what the outcome should be, on the grounds of the question itself, being not possible as such, and any answer being fundamentally corrupting. Yes I think acting out in the world rather than turning ones libido inward, as such, definitely has its advantages. What's better thinking about the advantages and benefits of going to the gym, or actually go to the gym, get the work done and get results. ABC Always Be Closing. Bit of a moive cliche, but the psychopath always has an excellent physique, usually weight lifts. I reckon being a serial killer as a psychopath would probably be more collateral damage as opposed to the actual intent, even though it might provide amusement.

If "they" are determining then that proves the therapist has "freewill". As I've said freewill is an illusion, it would be the same as saying infinity(also an illusion) is real. Though determinism I think is delusional. To even convey determinism to it's rational and reasonable conclusion...., I'm sure most of the language would have to be restructured 1984 style (newspeak). For example, instead of "well" as a statement of indivdualistic good health "goodwise" would be more logical. instead of "Excellent", "goodplus!" Instead of freedom & sanity, being the ability to say 2+2=4. "Sanity is statistical." If enough people 99.9999% say 2+2 = 5 then 2+2 = 5............. Maybe the symbols change but the quantity remains the same.... Statistical. "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain & Benjamin Diserali There's no difference between a Diagnostic Mechanic and a Psychologist. If the psyche itself is not regarded as real; there is no psyche. I think consciousness is highly revelant. Consciousness is not something you can predict. A person may act conscious as in sleepwalking or after a traumatic accident but in fact not be conscious. A person does not have to be conscious to act, if the already have prior experience of a task. Consciousness would be being perfectly aware you have more than one option on a chess board. Though I'm pretty sure freewill is a 2 player game. There maybe situations where one move makes no more logical sense than another. My point is they can't exist in the same position in spacetime so something is going to affect their consciousness and if a choice is on a even trigger what makes one option more likely then another. I don't think believing in freewill is the right way of looking at it. It would be like saying do you believe in infinity? Equally ridiculous, is I believe in Determinism. There is no I to be determined. Maybe. I find it interesting though how culture perhaps reflects various personality traits in mythology and movies. I would guess being extroverted, psychopaths would be: the aliens in "they live", Werewolves, Jedi(reflexes, relentless, no self...). Marquis de Sade, Earl of Rocheter, Charles II. I reckon it probably results in civil war if too many psychopaths are in charge. Contemporary examples probably various politicians. Some people I think try to be more psychopathic but aren't, Sam Harris (Determinist) maybe.

So, if you feed people into a meat grinder they become mincemeat. Hit a nerve in the knee their foot jerks. Strap them into a chair, drug them and force feed them pizza, they eat it to avoid gagging. If anything they have just been induced into a state of confusion or unconsciousness. A person with a high level of consciousness however would be able to manage that discomfort, like a dancer standing on tip toes. I am trying to get you to imagine more like exact clones, who grew up with the exact same type of experiences. You ever see the Resident Evil movies? The whole point of project Alice(a superhuman) in the movies was to create a being with such a high level of consciousness it could do virtually anything, a human was capable of. Despite creating clones none of them were able to match the original. Consciousness being dependent on, but not identical to matter. So even if you could create a machine that spammed "identical" clones, the consciousness of the clones would not be identical. How could it? How could a clone be able to concieve of an exact same thing, at an exact moment in time. Their location in spacetime would distort their perceptions. Typo error: meant that there maybe life on other planets with consciousness(freewill). Not the same as being conscious; you know you may one day die, but do you really understand? how much is it embodied? Well if determinism is true, psychopath would probably be, the reasonable mode of being. I mean various things say they are 1% of the population.(the 1%...) Why get annoyed or angry at anything if everything is determined? That would be crazy, if not crazy, primitive. A psychopath would therefore be at the apex of human evolution. Was curious because you did a thread a while a go asking about personality disorders/traits, and relating to the forum.

@smarterthanone Are you a Psychopath? Not that's necessarily a bad thing. I reckon many highly successful people are psychopaths, at least materially and if there is only determinism what else is there? I mean Stefan said that some of his family were martial aristocrats, so some psychopathic traits would be an advantage. The movie "They Live!" is probably an analogy for psychopaths.

How is there even a "they" in your scenario? Wouldn't cattle be more accurate. How is it infinite regress? There's only a finite amount of things a person can do that are culturally known. If you just say it happens, because it happens. The whole thing is tautological. Unless you actually test what you know with Drug A that makes them eat the pizza. As people are animals, some animals also probably have freewill also though not necessarily on Earth. Although grudged to admit it, freewill the ability to compare to an ideal standard. Trying to figure out other definitions.

What if they do a flip into the air snapping their neck. So the pizza remains uneaten. Or throw the pizza out the window. "Do NOT eat the PIZZA! No, I like pizza. - Eats the pizza. Or if the pizza is laced with poison, so eatting it would be lethal. Or what if it wasn't pizza, but your own children, would you eat them? ------------ I view freewill as a potentiality, not actuality. I guess maxmising it would be the willingness to die for what you value. How to maximise the illusion????? if that is what it is, anyway I choose the funfair or maybe it chooses me....... Musing. If they all eat the pizza/children regardless, then there is nothing to be determined. It is a fact. Though would Satan really eat his children? I guess he probably would, maybe I'm mixing him up with the antichrist.