Stephen C

Maybe if an animal has the capacity to hide something, we can say that animal has the capacity to be honest or dishonest.Maybe if an animal has the capacity to feel fear, we can say that animal has the capacity to be brave or cowardly.<<wags tail>>

I also have confidence in your block of text, Pepin. Do you feel that what I posted counters or does not align with what you've said here?

It's a way of getting close to someone when you don't know how to love.

I'm feeling overwhelmed and helpless, Cornellius. :(A podcast comes to mind, I hope it's useful...http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_1191_Self_Attack_Convo_Roleplay.mp3Please be gentle with yourself, I think you deserve it.

This is a brave post, congratulations. I'm glad to hear you are learning and trying to heal the relationship you have with your son, that's not easy and I think it's wonderful. I think it would be beneficial to make a commitment to weekly therapy sessions for the next several years with a quality therapist that will help you compassionately explore yourself and your history. As strange as it sounds, I think healing the relationship you have with your son has little to nothing to do with your son. I suggest leaving him out of the equation. I hope this makes some sense. I wish you the very best on your journey.

I can also write a letter illustrating how happy of a childhood I had if I leave out all the times I was scared, sad, angry and every other emotion in between. " I am very happy I did never experienced violence " " I tried to forget it since the kindergarten after a spanking pants down in public"

Quality therapy is self knowledge tutoring.

I don't think these conversations have anything to do with free will, determinism, semantics, definitions, intelligence, ethics, etc. I suggest ditching the topics and instead talking about what both of your relationships were like with your parents growing up. How they resolved disagreements, how they treated you both when you had thoughts that weren't in alignment with theirs. Talk about how you're both feeling in the conversation and after it. Try to understand where he is coming from and ask him to try to do the same. See if there are any similarities between the conversation you two are having and conversations you've had with your parents. If you haven't read Real Time Relationships yet, I think it's worth a listen/ read.

I agree with Mishelle and Dave. I'm sorry this is the situation you've got on your plate, Alexandru. From your post alone it's obvious to me that you're very sane and intelligent, I'm sure you can navigate this difficult situation brilliantly.

I want to send some compassion your way, Sulurith, and also to you, Cornelious. Feeling unable to find fun or enjoyment is pure torture. I'm familiar with that, I'm familiar with the empty feeling. I can't tell you how often I see children being attacked for having fun, it drives me nuts. I see so many children that can't run, hop, spin, touch things, get dirty, be loud, climb, etc without being attacked. When I walk about the city I see many children are even on leashes. Fucking human leashes, it's foul! Sometimes a child will run out or walk into my path and I stop to acknowledge them and smile or say "Hello", but within' 2 seconds their parents are yelling at them to get out of the way. Children are really treated like dogs, and I would even say that dogs in general get better treatment. A memory I've worked on in therapy was from when I was 2 years old. My mother and I took a plane to California to see my father, this was my first time meeting him. One of the days we went to a place called "Golf n' Stuff". I was too little to be able to play miniature golf, I couldn't hold and swing the golf club and I wasn't coordinated enough to really get involved. I watched them play and saw that they were trying to get the ball to go into the hole, so I decided to join them and also help the best way I could. When one of them would hit the ball I would enthusiastically chase it and when it stopped I would pick it up and run it to the hole to drop it in. My father didn't like this, he told me not to do it, but I didn't listen. I chased the ball again, picked it up and put it in the hole and my father lost it. He said he's not going to play anymore because there's no point in it without keeping score. He slapped me, grabbed my arm and dragged me across the golf course to the exit. My mother told him to stop, but not with the viciousness that she would impose on me when she wanted me to do something throughout my life. :(When I visited that memory as the person I am now I stood between my father and my 2 year old self. My father told me to get out of the way and tried to push by me. My therapist took my 2 year old self off to a park nearby so they could play. Meanwhile, I grabbed the golf club from my fathers hand and beat him to death with it. I left him as a puddle of flesh on the floor. I turned to my mother who was acting as if she was helpless in the situation and couldn't of done anything. I spit on her face and told her she should be ashamed of herself. I turned from her and scolded everyone in the golf course for not intervening and let them know this is the main reason why the world is as fucked up as it is. Then, I left to go see my 2 year old self who was still happily playing at a nearby park with my therapist. He told me and my therapist that he just wanted to help, and he was really excited to be able to do something with his mother and father together for the first time. I have tears coming up just thinking about it.Anyway, there's a lot more to this story, but I wanted to share at least this part because it might help you fine peoples find similar memories where you were attacked for having fun, being excited or enthusiastic. Take your fun back!

Why did you post here, Cam?I don't mean to imply you should or shouldn't. I'm genuinely curious what you would like to achieve through this thread.

That's generous of you, Rob. I thought the conversation was over at "Middle East crime rates don't back this theory"

I recently came across the works of a family therapist named Virginia Satir. She's made a lot of great contributions in terms of communication, self knowledge and personal growth. This is a video series of hers that I think is incredibly useful and thought provoking. I understand the words "forgiving parents" might put some on high alert, or maybe it just puts a Part of me on high alert and I'm projecting. I don't think this is a "get out of jail free card" for abusive parents. This is for you and your internal family. If there are any thoughts or criticisms about this video, please post. I'd like to hear what ya think 'cause I might not know what's what with what. I want to add that I haven't seen my family in years and I have no plans on that changing, but in my own work in therapy it's been a real challenge to forgive the Parts of me that took on the role of my family members and I think this can help with that.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j5pa8hYc6c

I don't want to bait you. If you think the question is irrelevant considering the topic of the thread, it may be. That was just the first thought that came to my head. Sorry to derail.

This may not help

For some reason the first thing that comes to my head is "What's your relationship with your parents like?"

In the video Gabor Mate expresses the opinion that less is better. So if a person can achieve the same results, minus the extras, that's good for business. I think a descent analogy would be something like.. people use metal weights and machines to gain muscle, but if they can gain the same amount of muscle without using weights and machines, that's even better. I imagine that would be less strain on the joints or tendons. It's also less of a strain on the wallet, gym memberships cost money and so does exercise equipment.From my super limited understanding of psychedelics, they draw all kinds of stuff that's buried in the unconscious to the surface. I think it's similar to what black salve does with pimples, boils, cysts, cancer and all those yummy growths. That could be a great alternative to getting these things removed with a scalpel or leaving them to grow, but if you can remove them without any of these things that's a plus.

Thanks for the recommendation, MCS. Sounds like an interesting show.A lot of the work I've done in therapy and self therapy has been visiting memories that had a strong impact on me, as the person I am now, to "rewrite" what occurs in that memory. For example, I had a vivid memory of being left alone and strapped down to the crib in my bedroom with the door closed while my mother was down the hall on the other side of the apartment sleeping. I screamed out, cried and flailed, but got no response. Eventually I surrendered and thought I was going to die. When I visited the memory, as the person I am now, I took the straps off of infant me, picked him up and held him close. I assured him that I won't let this happen again. I then ripped the sides of the crib off completely, which infant me appreciated. We went down to where my mother was and I relayed the babies thoughts and feelings to her. She claimed it was a matter of safety and I called her on her bullshit and told her that if it was a matter of safety she could just put the mattress on the floor. It wasn't about my safety, it was about her comfort. I also explained that doing things like this is going to create a black hole inside of me that will lead to me being unable to cope with many things in life and I won't stand for it.I can certainly relate to the premise of this show and look forward to checking it out.

Dear Stefan, I want these words to reach you and hopefully invigorate and touch you in a meaningful, gentle and positive way I wish you weren't suffering with this illness. I wish you weren't coping with the unpleasant side effects of the treatment you're undergoing. I wish I could alleviate. I wish I could cure you. I'm sorry you're experiencing these extreme discomforts and difficulties. I wish that throughout majority of your lifetime you were given more than some scraps of compassion here and there. I'm sorry you were so deprived and starved of empathy and compassion. I'm sorry you were left to suffer with this malnutrition all on your own. It's overwhelming and lonely, you deserved the opposite. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're alive. I'm glad you exist. Thank you for being.I want to send you a wave of compassion and care. I'm sorry I don't do so more often. We don't know each other, and I'm not saying I can, but if there's anything you need help with, please feel free to ask. Love, Stephen

I am a little confused, so I will expand upon my use of the word bypass. In talking to others, debating with a manager or protector part is not going to be productive unles the person is rather rational or has a decent amount self-knowledge. To provide an example, imagine there is a part that causes a person to get angry and yell when triggered. If you were a friend of this person, and wanted to go about helping resolve this, you would not want to trigger the part to resolve the issue, as this would result in getting yelled at and the actions the part takes in the moment are opposed to reasoning. Instead, you would approach the person when they are calm, and do your best to not trigger this person's anger, but to keep them in a cool and reasonable state of mind.The IFS therapy approach would not to be trigger the part, rather it would find a way of activating the part while remaining in self. So perhaps what I mean is more bypassing the trigger which would cause a person to go into an anti-rational state. You don't sound confused at all.

Imagine?! That would be epic.

Bypassing a Protector is not recommended and highly discouraged. All Parts have to be on board.

Have you ever seen the movie 'Pi'? It's worth a watch, I be thinkin'. Sol Robeson: Hold on. You have to slow down. You're losing it. You have to take a breath. Listen to yourself. You're connecting a computer bug I had with a computer bug you might have had and some religious hogwash. You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere.

Experimentation rocks! Do it up, MCS