MysterionMuffles

Right. I'm trying to see if they are mutually exclusive. Does virtue erase dysfunction and vice versa, or can they co-exist? Does being virtuous guarantee that compassion, curiousity, and honesty get you out of all dysfunctional relationships? I would say you could have been virtuous around them, but their dysfunction chipped away at your capacity for virtue because you had to play their game a little bit to survive. Ah yes...dysfunction could also sometimes be gateways to virtue. But only if there's self awareness involved and a willingness to change.

I understand that it's empathy 101 to say "sorry to hear that" or "sorry that happened to you," when people share disturbing experiences with us, but twice now I've done it with the other person saying "it's not your fault you didn't do anything." It's hard to explain, I do feel my sympathies are genuine, but I want to understand more of the reasoning why we say sorry for things we didn't cause. It just comes natural to me to say it, or when someone says it to me, I thank them for validating my emotions and experiences. What are your thoughts?

Who criticized you for keeping the pantry organized, and labelled you as OCD?

Been a while since this thread was active, any updates on being present in day to day life, Baylor? I dug this thread up to see if I, or anyone else, has mentioned Eckhart Tolle on the forums as I've been thinking of re-reading The Power of Now. I'd like to know if you ended up getting the book and what you thought about it as a newcomer to it, to compare what your experience is like with it to mine. Re-reading it after getting more into philosophy will prove interesting. I am hoping that it stall stands the test of time (or should I say presence?) and can provide value. PS your mom sounds very lousy and incapable of taking responsibility for drugging you. This whole "I'm not perfect" thing is a complete avoidance of growth from simply accepting ownership for her mistakes.

I'm reposting this from my original thread about a child abuse intervention at work. I think this second instance deserves its own thread because the original one got derailed. A mother and preteen daughter were in the store, and from the corner of my eye, I can already sense she was nagging her daughter and disallowing her from buying anything. In fact, the mother was buying a bunch of shit JUST FOR HERSELF! When they finally got to my cash register, the mother was being really rude to her daughter, bopping her on the head for...some reason I can't remember. It didn't look painful, but it did look humiliating. I was just busy ringing her items through. At some point, the daughter picked up a lanyard and started looking at it, and her mom says "oh no, we're not buying that. We don't have anymore time or money to buy things for you." (Even though they'd been in the store for 20 minutes) And at that point I had enough of her so I told the mother, "it's alright, she's just taking a look. Doesn't mean she has to buy it." Me saying that, I suppose, allowed the mother to allow the daughter to take a look at a shirt that was hung up on the high wall. I walked over to the wall with the daughter, noticing that the mother stayed at the cash counter to wait for her. When I took down the shirt off the rack, I took the opportunity to talk to the daughter. I said, "I'm really sorry that your mother treats you this way. I can't believe she won't let you get anything for yourself. How old are you? 12? Yeah you got 6 more years before you can move out and live on your own." Then I felt that I had to choke on my sympathy speech because the mother crept up behind us to tell her daughter that they had to get going, and even apologized for her daughter for wasting my time--when it's my goddamn JOB to show items to customers even for future reference. I don't know why...but this instance irritated me more than the one I originally posted about. This mother was so overbearing and rude to her daughter in almost every section of the store. My store's main demographic is youngsters from 13-30 and this mother was completely ignoring her daughter's desires all for her own. It made me uncomfortable with upselling, because when I did, the mother got yet another thing for herself instead of her daughter. Total BS!

GREAT TOPIC you guys are blowing my mind! You seriously took all the words straight from my mind. I have nothing to add.

uhhh what happened to my original post? :S well whatever happened I guess I can sum up what I suggested: Add some images to emphasize the topic, for instance talking about Kaley Cuoco with a picture of her in the blank space around Stef would've helped those who aren't familiar with who she is Add title headings at the beginning of each segment to go hand in hand with the timestamps in the description The transition clip of the city and the music are a good idea, but might be better with music that is closer to the style of what the intro and outro music is like (more epic, less city rocker) Likewise, the clip of the fast forward timelapse of the city could be switched to something else using graphics more similar to intro sequence or anything else. I like it but for some reason seems to clash with the content of the show, this could just be me though This way there's a bit more reason to watch the video rather than simply sticking to the podcasts, thus generating more Youtube views. Let me know what you guys at the helm of FDR! Btw where did you guys get the city time lapse clip and the music? lol I'm almost glad my original post went missing, this is a nicer more concise way to convey what I said.

Daniel Mackler's Self Therapy is really direct and concise with guiding questions for self knowledge.

Can virtuous people be in dysfunctional relationships or have self destructive habits, or do those things negate their possible virtues such as being honest, curious, and compassionate?

I love this format. It's great to have more condensed True News to cover different topics all in one episode. Also great are the transitions between segments. Where did you get the city scape clip and the music? I like the idea of it, but not quite sure if it's the music or the clip that is out of place for some reason. I'm not too sure on what changes could be made for that, but what I think would be good is some better use of the empty space floating around Stefan. Perhaps title headings to introduce the next segment that either pops up at the beginning and fades away, or stays there throughout the whole segment. Perhaps also some pictures could help add slightly more incentive to be watching the video as opposed to just listening to the podcast. Of course nothing too distracting or ever changing, but a few photos to highlight the topic would help like with the Kaley Cuoco one, it could've helped to have a picture of her there in case of anybody not knowing who she is. Those are just a few of my thoughts, I'd like to watch the first one to see what else is new in this format.

There's nothing new I think I can add, you're right about the subtle forms of abusive. It wasn't explicit yelling or threatening, so it was well done in that regard showing the abuse shows up in different ways than usual. I think I enjoyed the first 2/3 of it and then felt like it took a while to wrap up, but the endings for each plot was logical and perfect for each character. I'm gonna have to re-read it again, I just remember finding problems with Terry's plotline because his introduction had much to do with his uncles giving him a bad view on women so I thought later in the book he would gain a love interest he would use his uncle's bad advice to win over. Now that I think about it, maybe his uncle's bad advice about women is WHY he avoided them entirely so I don't know. Then I also got kind of bored when it took a few pages to describe the computer program in almost completely technical terms, so it might just be those two things that slowed it down for me and made me want to push past and rush to the end. Overall I enjoyed it. My favourite sections, again, were the ones involving the children because they were so bold and honest compared to all the adults who were all up in their heads about their lively concerns. OOOOh I think I really loved Gordon's plotline and how it interlinked with Alder and Stephen. His character arc was an interesting growth to experience much thanks to the BabbleFish being his friend. Lol speaking of the Babblefish, his chapters reminded me of a younger Stefan Molyneux starting a web show making some awesome social commentary in the early years of the internet. Talk about fiction characters representing the author's mecosystem! I have read similar books, I usually stick to contemporary young adult novels where it's centered around teenagers' lives in the modern world. They're the most relatable since everyone has been a teenager in their lives. I do notice that in a lot of these books, there are some parents actually taking ownership for whatever harm they had inflicted on their children, they make restitution, and develop deeper bonds with their children. I wonder how much that speaks to the author's inherent desire to have the same with their parents if they haven't received such treatment, or if they are inspired to make parents take responsibility in these books BECAUSE they've experienced it in real life. Much could be said about other coming of age stories but anyway... I feel like I'm rambling so I'll leave my post at that for now lol

What do you plan to do to work on those rare instances of intense rage?

I wonder how much differently this could have turned out if the greeter got involved...let alone if all workplace employees banded together to ensure child abuse didn't occur at their stores. The message would be much stronger I think. Good for you once again, Joel. Like I said in our conversation before, I think you're a true superhero actually accomplishing tangible good in the world without wearing goofy tights and hurting people in the process. Other than the egos of abusive parents of course... Between you and me, I notice there's the regret of barely acknowledging the child after intervening with them being abused. I wonder to what degree we are intervening for the sake of saving the children or our own vindication for the abusive we've suffered as children. Not to say it's wrong or trying to ascribe my own projections on you, but personally for me, I feel like it's more 60/40 when it comes to intervening. It's my way of retaking the power I had lost, and it's selfish I suppose, but at some point I do have to start interacting with the children more and let them know it was for them rather than for me wanting to pick a fight.

So then you can see how you've pent up this anger and let it bottle up inside until that moment, right? I'm not making any judgements or anything. Just letting you know that I think that's what may have happened. You've harbored a lot of anger and resentment towards your parents and wanted to speak out about it, but it got redircted towards women who simply replicated what you've experienced. Then to see it happen to other children outside of yourself, that gave you a huge spike in empathy. I condone what you've done, it WAS very brave, as for how you approached it I'm not sure. Some would argue that while it may denormalize abuse by children, it might teach them to fight outright aggression with more outright aggression. If that's right or wrong I'll never know. I still wonder to what degree I'll be assertive and possibly aggressive the next time I see a child get abused in public. I have a thread on a recent intervention I've done, I totally get where you're coming from. There's a regret on how much better you may have approached it and in my thread I feel almost the same.

How did you get the grandmother to hand the baby over to you? Seems odd and unlikely for them to hand them to a stranger.

Wouldn't approaching the instance with a giant smile on your face be a way of minimizing the situation for everybody? Sorry I don't quite follow. And your story didn't seem to be in line with what you explained. I might be missing something, but I don't follow your logic.

Thanks for sharing. Those women are despicable...good of you to point out that the little girl's ass was itchy possibly because of poor hygiene care from one of the women. I'm not sure if you denormalized the women's behaviour for the children. On one hand they see someone standing up to mean people....but being mean about it. I don't exect you to be completely passive and compassionate towards these bitches, but there are ways of being assertive without being aggressive, and what you did was totally aggressive. Not judging, just pointing it out. Your response was totally justified and understandable, and those women needed to see what it's like to be yelled at. The kind of way you spoke to them, and the kinds of things you said, do you feel like that may have been something you've wanted to express to your parents for a long time? Sorry if that's a leading question, to ask a more open ended question; how did you respond to your parents' absuve behaviour? Have they ever done anything similar that these women did? ie outright insulting you by being compared to a lesser adult, being shamed for basic biological care etc.

I would believe it's wish fulfillment...hmm if you have the time check out my Full House thread. I notice in a lot of the young adult novels I read, the parents will often cause some significant or minor harm to their children, but at least own up to that near the end of the book. It would logically follow that their relationship can be repaired after this, but I dunno...seems like a one in a million shot that any parent who can even cause so much harm to their kids can even THINK about doing something to earn their forgiveness. There have been a few callers who had admitted to spanking and then stopping and asking for forgiveness...the world has yet to learn. If it's not outright new parents starting off peaceful right away, there needs to be an uprise of parents who have been abusive learning to own up to their mistakes.

interesting how they invested 12 years of a kid's life for the movie rather than hiring different actors to represent different times in his life....I would like to see the parenting effects handled rightly

I totally understand, AynRand. There was a while in my life where I would think back to the show, not knowing why, but resenting it for being so corny and realistic. Perhaps it was the sense that I wasn't seeing any peaceful parenting in reality, and most especially not in school. I've watched the first three episodes and what I do find creepy is when Uncle Jesse starts talking about his sexual experiences in front of the children. He never gets around the dirty details, but you can tell by the way he's speaking, it's leading to a sex story that which Danny prompts him to be aware of the children present. For instance, it was Stephanie's first day of kindergarten and they were talking about how first times could be scary, and Jesse spun a story about how when he was 14, he dated a college girl--which screamed to me sexual predation on her part--and he was going on about the date details up until the point of "having his first time" at something. I wonder if that was so much for comedic effect and if it was neccessary to have him act this way. I've been finding that troubling and inappropriate. I dunno. I'll continue watching it. I've only cried at the end of the episode I caught on TV and the first episode, but so far I'm enjoying it quite decently for what it had to offer for its time.

Thanks for sharing, Ayn. I had a similar experience later on in life, feeling like the show was a personal taunt to me. I watched the first episode just a moment ago, and might continue to watch a bit more...it feels like a form of masochism to me. It really makes me sad at the end of each episode, that cheesy sappy 80's music playing and the heart to heart talks begin. It's like showing the world how parenting should and could be like...I don't know if I will end up crying at the end of each episode, but I would like to expirament with that. These writers...I wonder if they followed in that model they portrayed with their own children, let alone the actors, the cameramen, the stage hand....everybody. That's interesting, btw. Why do you think you wanted to universalize the abusive parenting that you experienced and not the other way around like I had? I wished that I got the same kind of parenting along with everybody else around me. Though obviously I didn't think in those terms of everybody else as a kid since my world was all of my own to worry about.

I have fond memories of watching this show as a kid. I don't recall any time Danny Turner (Bob Saget) has ever hit any of his girls or yelled at them when they misbehaved. In fact, most of the conflicts that happened in the show weren't ever life threatening, the problems the family faced were usually cute inconveniences that were solved by a peaceful and rational sit down talk with the father. I wonder...if this show was a good or bad thing to have in the mainstream amidst the reality of abusive parenting happening in the real world. I wonder if it had any effect on parenting by showing by example or if it was a fantasy to be scoffed at. Personally for me--and I am just theorizing--I think it was shows like this that gave me any small hope or possibility that home life could have been better for me. To see wholesome values portrayed on TV, knowing at some level it was all just make believe, gave me the idea that maybe reality can mimick fiction. It always perplexed me why my parents, who were married and still together, couldn't do what a single father on TV could do and sit down with his kids to actually have a conversation with them about the problems they all faced together or individually. The reason why I bring this show up is because I caught the last 10 minutes on TV by chance last week... Even though I haven't seen the whole the episode, I can sense what had transpired in it: DJ the oldest daughter had been working real hard in her role as Juliet in her school's production of Romeo and Juliet, and Stephanie the middle child had been working hard on a science fair project. At some point in the show, DJ ruined Stephanie's project by accident--and I believe the comedy came out of the fact that her project involved food and so DJ ate it. Stephanie was too upset to redo her project which prompted Danny to work all night and redo it for her. The girls find Danny half asleep at the kitchen table, and Stephanie of course is thankful for what he had done, but still desires that he shows up at her science fair project, which incidentally takes place at the same time as DJ's play. Danny tries to cut a deal where he can go to Stephanie's science fair first to watch her get first prize, and drive straight to the play, but DJ complains that her character would be dead by the time her dad can stop by. At this point, I think the girls take a bus to where ever their events take place because they also need time to set up before the events begin. Meanwhile, Danny is at home and goes to the toddler Michelle's room and intends to have her take a nap. I knew that this show was mainly peaceful and respectful parenting, but he did display some selfishness that I found interesting. I don't know if it was right or wrong but he says, "Michelle sweetie, it's time to take a nap." "But I'm not tired." And very sweetly Danny says, "and daddy doesn't care. It's the middle of the afternoon and you need to nap." I felt irritated by him ordering her around like that, even though it wasn't that aggressive, but it all turned around when he said, "tell you what. I'll take a nap with you so we can both get some rest." He hops into bed with her and almost immediately he begins snoring, and Michelle pulls the blanket over him, kisses him on the forehead and says, "sleep tight, daddy." Later, DJ and Stephanie come back home the same time and argue with each other, basically blaming each other for their dad not coming to either of their events. "Dad totally missed my science fair because he went to your play!" "No he didn't, he missed my play because he went to your stupid science fair!" Then they pause and accept each other's words as truth. They begin to worry and wonder what happened to him. They start running around the house calling out for their dad and Michelle says, "can you guy please be quiet? Daddy is trying to sleep!" He wakes up to his daughters hugging him and apologizing for demanding so much of his time and attention, and he has a little heart to heart talk with them about how much harder single fatherhood is really turning out to be---and at this point I just start to cry... There was no blame on the children for exhausting him, he took full ownership for putting all his time and energy into helping them out with what they need. A part of me says, "I wish I had that." But I know I can't. It's too late. Childhood ended a little more than a decade ago, but still. It upset me. Although my fond memories of watching the show were vague, all I do remember is being at peace with the moment when I would watch it as a kid. I could barely remember any funny moments or the conflicts they faced, but looking back now, I can sense that I had a ton of envy for those girls. Hell, maybe any other kids from other sitcoms that had peaceful parenting enacted for them... So Full House, do you remember this show did you ever get into it? What has your experience been with it?

Yeah it's an interesting world out there. My parents also provided me things some kids couldn't dream of having, and then there were things other kids had that I wish I had and it all goes in this circle of envy. But aside from all the toys, vacations, and family dinners, what I think all kids want the most is simple acknowledgement of the individuals that they are. What did you think of the rest of the novel and how the kids were treated by their parents? Because I do remember Sarah (was that her name? been a while) coming from a wealthy family and having a lot of financial advantages, but was horded off to various nannies as a child. Blah...I need to read this again sometime.

I follow this page on Facebook called Humans of New York that's owned by this dude Brandon Hony. He goes around New York interviewing people about their life stories, taking pictures of them, and then cutting their stories down to the most concise and important details when posted on Facebook. I've usually skipped reading them the past little while, but this morning I felt like NOT ignoring today's posts: https://www.facebook.com/humansofnewyork/photos/a.102107073196735.4429.102099916530784/858199057587529/?type=1 https://www.facebook.com/humansofnewyork/photos/a.102107073196735.4429.102099916530784/858207717586663/?type=1 I'm happy to see the recognition of abuse being inexecusable and the idea that biological parents don't = true family in all cases. Also sad of course for what this woman had been through. Your thoughts?

No...only on TV like Full House. He's said it himself, parents had YEARS of training in peaceful parenting through TV. I have this theory that the only reason why I know there's a better alternative to coercive parenting is because I used to watch Full House.