King David

I hole heartedly agree with this, fat is sacred I would concur

Who cares about NAP and pets, what about the NAP and my lunch? How am I supposed to eat lunch without aggression? Assuming that people eat flesh of formerly live prey which I for one confirm that they do.

The initial stage sounds to me like uncertainty, however that is the state I put myself during meditation so it could mean balance or acceptance of the ephemeral nature of existence. The following sequence of color and lucidity I would interpret as an attempt of the your soul to communicate to your ego to engage some existential reality. There maybe forces changing your future and you currently feel like you don't have the utilities to engage with the exponents of change, and therefore you must be willing to accept the consequences. King David

I was just giving this topic a good think and was hoping for some feedback on my logic. I remembered Milan Kundera's epic sexual archetype bible The Unbearable Lightness of Being. He points out that a denial of one's own waste is an existential denial of one's self, as he references Yakov Stalin who during his dismay on where the captive allied officers he was sharing prison facilities with complained about his sanitary practices, he accidentally on purpose runs himself into an electric fence. Tragic. This is where my amateur comes out(of course Stefan would be aware of this somewhere shortly after the T in the title), but if that is the case, and one were to equate this metaphor, or maybe say example to the level of a community or a nation what do you think would be the moral implications. First that comes to my mind is that principly a community must remove its waste, which archeologically, or philosophically, or sociologically or with any other ology that must be the case. So my postulate (I believe that is the word here) is that the state or government should naturally seek out to control this service as it is central to everyone and is something everybody has in common. In fact archeologically your waste defines your culture, and I would think existentially also. Here is where it gets creepinglly ere in my mind, is I think that the creation of governments often ran a parallel course with Mafia in the business of Trash Removal, and of course later establishing Currencies and whatever else the Romans could invent for a new field of coersion that Government and Mafia could operate tandem in. So if you can agree that at least some of this were accurate history or philosophy what would that mean to us who live in the quasi-police state/intelligent mafia democroncy? is what I'm asking you. I would think that a community that cannot accurately acknowledge its waste, or it's common threads would suffer in ability to make clear definitions and give licence to crooks and politicians alike to run our basic needs and weaknesses amok and ultimately hold us hostage to them. That seems sufficient enough description of governments today for me. King David

I don't see why MGTOW should be considered an ideology, the central principle is to take care of your own needs and do not tread on any other mates whom are discovering their version of masculinity. That seems like a philosophical angle to me.

The size and scope of the subject of male disposability staggering, and all the more daunting due to our emotional and economic involvement in it. Personally I have gone a little too MGTOW for this website (I still intend to donate when I have the means), but I'm glad to read this thread as there are some great responses here and have a parallel mindset to xelent. I think if you want to accurately acknowledge human history you simply have to observe how the Chinese civilization has had it. They had more history before your civilization was born than you have accumulated since then. Anyways, the political structure of the east has always been that every single individual soul was about as valuable as soot in your furnace, in that once you are expired it is a burden to have to remove your waste. The reason why this was acceptable throughout their entire course of history was because in the context of family each and every individual family role was honoured, and incidentally serves their yin and yang. So what comes as a shock to westerners, that people are disposable is simply a reality for the majority of the population of the planet. To deny that is folly. So speaking of the west, part of the reason that people are so heavily deluded about our political status (which you could argue was further diluted by enabling the female vote) is that throughout much of our history, women simply were the exception. There you have it, the only class of people if ever that was not entirely politically disposable is white aristocratic women, sorry womyn. If that seems elitist, that is because that is what it is. I picture Stalin contemplating a photo of Hitler thinking "I could take better care of his women than he could, his women need a strong man and a stronger moustache to show them what they really want". And when I say want, I mean work. Utility, like Stefan points out in his livestock metaphor is what is desirable. The Chinese know it, Stalin knew it, and fortunately Hitler DNGTM. So there is my two bits (which since the great socialist inflation is more like $12), that all your daughters and nieces prancing around in their favorite Disney Princess outfits are celebrating and flaunting the aristocratic hall pass from slavery. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of fantasy, which is something that Stefan underestimates IMO. Fantasy is a huge part of human psychology and serves as a launch pad into individuality and ego, but when productivity is never expected or demanded of somebody the fantasy can continue and they will become psychologically dependant on it. Anti-social behavior is learned and can be utilized to support the ego. Anti productivity and anti social behaviors are rampant in our culture today and show the decline of western primacy. It would take a colossal effort to improve, focus, and repair our culture even if we were ready for this discussion and the economic consequences. That would be what they call hitting a grand slam, anything less over significant time periods will surely lead to the downfall of our society, just like so many before that overvalued any particular classes importance and cherished similar ideals. Like I said, I'm going MGTOW and feel betrayed by a culture that has demanded my slavery and submission with no regard for my well being, opinions, or needs. People en masse have little appreciation for the oppressive power that women yield yet examination of any species on the planet reveals that females exclusively hold the key to breeding rights and male will be anything that is desired of them. King David

Agreed, there are scams in policy but I'm more interested in cataloguing s cams with the scammers. Another example was Hitler's cronies making bedroom furniture when the state began financing bedroom furniture loans. Or how about Hitler's car saving bonds LOL. One of the greatest scams ever. Or how about Cecil Rhodes and the De Beers Mining Company....so many things wrong with that dark page of history great scams all of them, pls add one if you think of it

Thanks for the posts all, all very insightful. I have begun the process of realizing my identity but it is quite an uphill battle. Its actually pretty entertaining when people who have known you as a pee on are unable to recreate the same results and react wildly. Actually one night at a club where I held my ground with some agro bullying types, well later on that evening some random guy smashed me in the back of the head layed me down flat on my face. Obviously, that was not one of the entertainment I was speaking of but I am realizing some of the things that "establishing yourself" in a hierchy means, as well as the benefits of a belonging. One thing I realized is that growing up I never really knew why dominance is desired in a relationship, and therefore could never even imagine why violence should be utilized between people, kind of wonderfully ignorant. Unfortunately there were huge consequences to this.

Sure, it seems to me that various government administrations seek to secure a non-competitive advantage for a particular business interest in which their leading pundits are heavily invested in, In the case of the Bush administration it was the corporation of Halliburton that received all the critical contracts for developing their Iraq oil they had just acquired from the Iraq Freedom campaign. Clinton and Gore began the worldwide carbon tax campaign in which the Canadian Liberal pundits cashed in on by developing their interest in China's coal energy market...(I got this wrong in the original post, but as China opted out of Kyoto they would be free to corner the energy market while the west was mired in legislative taxes). It seems that most of the legislation that an administration passes will secure a unfair market opportunity for their own business interests in the years following their opportunistic policy creation. These are the ones that I am aware of but there are surely many more, if you are in the know of these scams please enlighten me.

I've had a history of being tormented by bullies but now I see it in just about everybody. Random people starring me down infuriates me, corporate culture is intolerable, my family can't stand me when I speak my mind and politics that ruins peoples lives, my relationships with women confound me. It seems that there is no respite and I live in 1984 where I'm the crazy one. There are only a handful of people that I could ever relate to and get intelligent feedback from, I probably would be crazy if it weren't for them. Discovering libertarianism has only made it worse. Showing people patience invariably leads them to attempting to walk over me and if ever I react, people react wildly as I should simply accept their bs. There are so many things wrong with the world and my input towards it is negligible or flat out ignored because it's too radical. Even my presence draws unwanted attention. I need a way to channel my energy in a productive avenue.

I'm in, dbwine1

Cheney Corp. = Halliburton Democrats = carbon tax Tories = power corp liberals = cannabis corp. ( revamping after last election crush) who else?