_LiveFree_

A continuous conversation down the generations.....yet here we STILL are as a species. In my humble yet vitriolic opinion, it hasn't accomplished dick. Now that's hyperbolic but not by much. What use is a "great conversation" unless we can have it with those closest to us? That is not hyperbolic at all.

How would you feel if you went up to your friend and said, "Hey, I saw that you tweeted about seeing the new Alien movie, but I thought you and I were going to go see it. I feel kinda down about that." When you play that scenario in your mind, what feelings come up for you?

Maybe you don't have any friends that value you because you spend time with people that do not value you. How do these people display that they do not value you?

If you have no confidence with women because you've never interacted with them, then just go out and interact with them. They all aren't going to like you. Maybe 1/10 will. You only need 1. If you can't deal with women turning you down then you don't deserve a good woman. Go get your feelings hurt.

And now I know not to engage with you. Thanks!

Neurons have been simulated. https://singularityhub.com/2014/12/15/worm-brain-simulation-drives-lego-robot/ But i didn't say neurons, I said consciousness.

What's your history with women like? How old are you?

This thread might be interesting if another species had made it to the moon. The original question in the OP assumes that consciousness can exist outside of a biological organism. I've never seen such a thing, nor seen any compelling evidence that this is possible.

Like attracts like. A woman who lives virtuously will not be attracted to a man who does not. A cat does not mate with a goat. Nature loves smashing things together. Things that stick together typically have many similarities. Become what it is you want to attract. When two people who are virtuous come together in a romantic relationship, they may decide to procreate, likely creating offspring who will be virtuous. It's really that simple. How do you live virtuously in a world that encourages vice? Find a virtuous partner and sex the hell out of each other. And in the end it's not a black or white thing but degrees. Minimize vice is all you really have to do. Minimizing vice means when you come across something not virtuous in yourself or people close to you, you work on it. Living virtuously is not a state of being but a way of living. Like a landscaper. His way of life is lawn mowing. Why? Because he wants to keep grass short. Lawn mowing for him is not a state of being, but a method or blueprint for how he lives each day. When people see how beautiful his lawn is they will ask him how he does it. If he desires to change the world he will share his knowledge of lawn mowing and help those who wish to become their own landscapers. Yesterday, all the yards were overgrown with weeds. Today, one yard is primly cut. Tomorrow, two yards are looking sharp. Next week, every yard on the street looks beautiful. A month from now its every yard in the neighborhood. A year from now it's every yard within 10 square miles. . . Vice (read: violence) spreads like an unconscious cancer. It is a virus of the mind. It requires no act of will because it originates from the base of the brain, overwhelming the neocortex and higher reasoning. Virtue is purely an act of will. How do you get people to want to act virtuously? You put your shiny hook in the water and wait for them to bite. When they do, yank hard. If they make it out of the water they will eventually grow legs and learn to walk, make their own shiny hook and cast it into the water.

I dismiss you. I don't take you seriously. After 2.5 years of you posting I'm very comfortable with that position.

In other words, if we want to change the world, we must change ourselves and convince others to do the same. Totally agree! In fact, I think I remember saying that succinctly a while back... What does this mean?

Fair enough I actually have a friend (read: friend-lite) who's a theist and we've had some great conversations about all kinds of things. He's too deep in the cultiness of it to ever come out, but I got him and his wife to stop spanking. War of attrition. There are plenty of theists out there with which to have a decent discussion. Donnadogosth isn't one of them. And this was one of his more goopy posts, so I was wondering why he's getting the patronage. Anyway, just curious.

"Doc! Doc! How does telling me I have a broken arm answer the question of how to lift my briefcase?!" Actually, you've proven to me over the last few days that YOU can't easily make someone rational. You think I'm being irrational, yet, you haven't changed my mind. ..don't need 'em... Great psychologist have come along and have told us exactly what I've been telling you. Are you sure you're listening to the experts? It is not "subjective". It's a hypothesis, which has easily been proven false. I know you're smart so please reread what those two terms mean and how you've gotten them mixed up. I'm not. I've obviously deemed this conversation and you to not be a waste of my time. Why do you think that is the case? (actually curious what you think) So I'd be more useful to you if I told you why "people" are irrational? You started out by asking how to change an irrational mind, so you'd think you'd already know why that mind is irrational. If a car won't start I have to find out why first before I get it to go faster. I'd contribute far more if I could see the full depth of the problem, but I don't know the full depth of the problem and neither do you??? WAT? I know full well why people are irrational. They are raised by irrational people who lie to them and/or use violence or psychological violence against them in order to coerce behavior they want out of the child. An example: A father, mother, and three children are all sitting around a dinner table. The father holds up his hand palm up and says, "Let us thank this apple for our wonderful existence." Curious Child replies, "What apple?" Father's child says, "The Red Apple in father's hands!" Mother's Child adds, "Don't you see it?" Mother says, "Oh honey, I know you can see the Red Apple." Curious Child replies, "No I don't. His hand is empty." Father replies, "That'll be enough of that. Children, thank the Red Apple." All but the Curious Child fold their hands in prayer. I've used a religious example, however, you can replace Red Apple with anything: god, the state, multiculturalism, social status, or familial love. Imagine what happens to the Curious Child's perception of reality. They grow up time after time having to acknowledge something that isn't true and will be attacked or ostracized for denying its existence. And worse, as they get older and run into seemingly impenetrable road blocks caused by the delusion, they will get input from the people who share this delusion who blame the road block on something completely different. They paint the road block and go on pretending it isn't there anymore. Nope. Not once have I claimed that. Nice try though. (not really, I'm being snarky. Which is well deserved as I have stated multiple times what my argument is. You have yet to actually address it, btw. All you do is skirt around it.)

#NotAnArgument Philosophy is a light? Shining a light of for shapes that make reality? You'll only accept an answer if it helps? This is not philosophy. This is a circle jerk. Philosophy asks questions to look for answers that are correct. Screw what helps or feels nice or whatever the hell. Philosophy is for discovering what is correct. People don't like listening to nutrition because it says eat stuff that doesn't taste as good as this other stuff that will harm you. People don't like real action based philosophy because it says these actions will lead to lasting joy even though they might not feel good right now. Philosophy doesn't taste good when you first starting eating it. YES YES YES!! Philosophy is about turning the light onto yourself!! Everything can be achieved by turning the light on yourself. What, you think Stef just studied really hard and can now put 2 and 2 together? That dude dropped 2 solid years and over twenty thousand dollars on therapy. That's like turning the f-ing sun right in your face. Then after the therapy he brought honesty to his relationships, friends and family. You think this sh=t is easy?! This philosophy show came after all the self-work and for good reason. Philosophy is the most powerful weapon this world has ever seen and you're treating it like some plastic gun to be waved around as party favor. And I've read that thread. You haven't found dick, believe me. The only thing you've exposed is your willingness to mess with people to satisfy your own personal ends. "These are cynical, and closed...", #NotAnArgument LOL You think I'm starting with an assumption? And that assumption is you can't easily make a difference? That's retarded. Like feed you with a straw retarded. No, I'm challenging your assumption that you know what the hell you're doing. I'm challenging your assumption that you know what putting philosophy in action really means. I'm challenging your assumption (read delusion) that you aren't completely scared out of your wits. You ARE denying the problem. I've shined the light on the problem and pointed it out for you. You continue to delude yourself into thinking it is something outside yourself. The very fact, FACT, that you are as resistent to this as you are is a crystal clear indicator that I am 100% right about it. What? You think you're the first one to go through this? You go see a doctor and tell him you're having trouble lifting your briefcase. He examines your arm and then says, "Your arm is broken." You reply, "I didn't come here for you to look at me! Tell me how to lift the briefcase!" Just ridiculous. Also, I don't know if I've mentioned this but calling something "cynical" is #NotAnArgument (even if you're using that term to describe a particular brand of philsosphy) I never once said you couldn't argue sense into someone if they are completely irrational. I just said you can't do it directly. And it's not an opinion. It's a fact I've seen on display many times over in my own life as I bring honesty to my relationships, and by listening to this call in show. You're a newbie, so I know you don't get that, but you will in time. In fact, I think we're seeing a bit of that right here. I'm being completely forthright with you and you reject what I'm saying out of hand. Kind of like the people who's minds you want to change. Hmmm, I wonder if it's their minds or your own you really want to change.... The way you're going, it is completely rational to think you'll do jack squat. You're a complete lightweight who's going to get completely f*cked up if you're not careful with this stuff. You think I'm being antagonistic to you because I'm jaded or something. When reallly I'm your best friend on these forums right now. But then again, from what you've said about your family and the people you've hung around, I wouldn't expect you to recognize it when someone is actually acting with your best interest at heart and treating you with honesty. My bowel movement flowed smoothy this morning, that doesn't mean it was anything special.

"omg! They're all gonna laugh at you!" I guess I should be clear to you, too. I'm not dismissing Christianity and friends, I'm dismissing you. Two very different things.

You misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm talking about the original post in the thread. Post #1. This junk. What on earth? Why would you attempt at a reply to this?

Eudaimonic, why would you ever reply to an OP that is that non-sensica? Anyone who'd post something like that isn't going to be capable of reason.

JohnnyBoy, that's one helleva post I'm so so sorry that this has been your life and that you're having to go through this. I want to caution you about making any big changes on your own without support around you. Those kinds of moves result in disaster. i know what you want in life because I want it to, we all do. Love. We want the joy of loving someone who loves us. We want to experience that joy every morning, day, and night. Let me tell you, there is no greater reason to change your life than that. The fact that you are here, having said the things that you did, and in the manner in which you said them, tells me that not only are you are great man worthy of such love, but that it's also only a matter of time before you find love. And a lot less time than you probably think. Let me tell you a small bit about my journey and my girlfriend's journey as there are a couple of similarities to your own. My parents never loved me either. In fact they never took the time to get to know me. When I finally came to that realization it felt like dying. It was my original heartbreak that I had covered over for decades. But in time, just like any wound, my heart healed, although scarred. One of the reasons I came out of that period of my life relatively intact was that I recognized what a disaster I was, so I laid fallow. I got a boring job, did not go on dates, did not try to find a group to be a part of, did not look for love outside of myself. There was a lot of work to do in order to get me to the point where the things that I wanted out of life would come naturally. A watershed moment was a call to Stefan that lasted about an hour. The climax of which was three words he spoke to me, "You be honest!" In context, it was about how to attract a good woman. Little did I know that those three words would completely change how I see myself. My whole life had been spent around people who did nothing but lie and twist the truth. Truth was not allowed in my family. Naturally, that same behavior was what I did everyday without being completely conscious of it. Well, once I started applying truth telling to those people in my life who mattered to me, which at that time was only me, do you know how long it took before I found a great woman? 2 months. Now, she and I have certainly had a journey in order to get our lives to come together, but we both wanted it enough and honesty has always been the bedrock of our relationship. It's an amazing thing. Like you and I, her parents never loved her either. Her dad sexually molested her and her mother emotionally and medically abused the hell out of her. By the time she was 14 she was addicted to pain killers and alcohol in addition to excessive weed use. Also, like you, she found Stefan one day on YouTube, and eventually found her way to this message board, where I found her. She wanted to get healthy. The first step to getting healthy is getting clean. She's been 100% drug/alcohol free for over two years. There were some false starts but she made it. A big part of getting and staying clean was going to NA meetings. We are not religious at all and she struggled with the whole god thing. And to be completely open about it, she never worked the steps. There's something about going to the same place, seeing the same people, hearing the same stories every week (or daily if you need) that helps to keep you grounded. Addiction is a bitch. Disease or not you won't be able to do it alone. AA is free to attend, and there is no expectation that you speak or pray. The guy who'd regularly run the meetings we'd go to said for years he'd go to meetings and just sit in the back corner looking at his phone hoping no one would see him. Last time we attended a meeting he said it was his 12 year anniversary. The meeting before that featured a guy 22 years sober. It can be done and you don't need God, just sympathetic ears to listen to you. So please, consider this. I know AA can be cringe. But going to a cringe AA meeting is better than opening another bottle. Something else I hope you'll consider is trying to find a good therapist and then giving it time. Yes there are shitty therapists out there. I've had a few. All you need is one good one. The odds are in your favor but you have to look around, make calls, etc. You need someone in your corner who is legally bound to never tell any of your secrets. Plus a good therapist will take your off office hour calls when things are not going well. It's always hardest in the beginning. So from the time Stefan spoke those three words to me until now is just over three years. I've gone from being a bachelor on a wicked dry spell, no career, almost no friends, shitty apartment, unmanageable debt, no hope, to now; beautiful girlfriend who moved in with me. We got a nice apartment in a good area of town. I grew the balls necessary to demand of my boss's boss's boss that they create a new position for me at work that comes with a substantial raise because of the value I bring and will bring to the company. Did it, got it. Bought a new car. No more break downs. Have a decent kitchen to cook food other than noodles or PB&J. Oh, and I have ZERO assholes in my life. You'll never know how good life can be until you leave all the assholes behind. If you're really looking for change, as I think you are, do this one thing. Get a pocket sized notepad. Write on it specific things you need to do for that week. Then pull this list out of your pocket and look at it multiple times a day. Do those things on the list. Ex list: listen to an entire FDR podcast (go for an oldie pre-1500) attend AA meeting call 5 therapists' offices stay sober exercise! eat an apple drink water Make a journal entry keep the list on you. Let it consume your thoughts. And when your inner critic berates you with, "You fucking idiot! This is retarded!" Calmly yet resolutely reply, "I appreciate your opinion, but I don't think that it is and I want to give it a shot." The list is your practical steps to dramatically improving your life. And if you fuck up, it's ok. Try again. A desire for change always precedes actual change. You can do it.

lol wow! "Behave in a universally preferable manner" ??? That's what you think it means?!? A few points: 1: Report me all you want. I'll respect whatever action the moderators take. 2: Write in again and make this the title of your email, "CALL IN: UPB TAKEDOWN! Destroying UPB With 800 Year Old Arguments!" In the body of your email, make it clear UPB is the sole focus of the call 3: Genius! It must be my parents' fault that I'm "so hostile" (damn my wet panties!)! It couldn't possibly be a reasonable reaction to you. No way! Because you've asked me soooo many questions to know that it must be my parents. I've given you soooo much information about me. Don't psychologize people to try to win arguments You have no conception of my life whatsoever. 4: If thou, heretofore, were unequivocally to conduct thyself forthright and with deep earnestness anon, thou would manifest, with unabashed efficacy and puissance, an enduring curiosity of the provenance and consanguinity of my disaffection.

I think you're full of it. Stefan absolutely loves call in shows where the caller challenges UPB. If it has been "destroyed" by 800 year old arguments he'd have you on the show tomorrow to explain it. You haven't called in before. I would have remembered. Why don't you? Think of all the potential converts to Christ you could facilitate by doing so. In fact, by not calling in with this info, you would be directly responsible for those souls being lost. So call in or...I don't want to say "go to hell", but in this case you just might.

Oh! I'd rather keep insulting your intelligence! Fun! Is it insulting if it's an accurate portrayal?

I would strongly caution you to not go mucking around with other peoples' IFS parts. That is some seriously dangerous behavior. Not just dangerous to that person but to you, too. You have no idea what's in there. Also, if someone becomes aware that you are doing this without their consent, you'll lose all credibility with them and any chance to change their mind in the future. Besides being unethical without consent in my opinion, you can really mess a person up beyond rehabilitation. "Trolling" is laying bait for a person's firefighter. It is to draw them out (as opposed to you going in). This means they, even if unwittingly, are choosing to interact with you. If it is just a one-on-one interaction, all you've succeeded in doing is hardening their firefighter's resolve and sense of purpose. You've accomplished the opposite of what you seek. Successful trolling requires an audience. And the degree of a successful troll is directly related to how big an audience. The bigger the better. Trolling is baiting a firefighter to expose a person's irrationality related to the topic you are trolling on. However, the firefighter is acting rationally as a defense against a past abuse or humiliation that it senses is about to reoccur. The humiliation a person will feel in that moment will not be from the current circumstance of being trolled, but from the memory of the past abuse. This means that this person is in fight or flight, only seeing two options. The more severe the past abuse was, the more likely (far more likely) they will have an intense response to your trolling. Their reaction will not be consistent to the current circumstance. This is what "exposes" them to others. Others may see this and realize the ridiculousness of the trolled person's position on whatever the topic was. However, the person who got trolled is highly unlikely to ever change their position after being trolled. Trolling is an attack on a person's false self. Not a direct attack, more like a landmine. A landmine painted hot pink sitting above ground with a massive sign that says "LAND MINE HERE". Because of the person's past abuse and subsequent development of a false self through various Managers and Firefighters, they cannot see the sign for what it is. When the mine goes off, this false self is abruptly and shockingly destroyed or, at the very least seriously damaged. At that point, the person will quickly begin developing a new false self narrative. The likelihood of someone "waking up" due to a landmine explosion is so minuscule, I can't even recall seeing it ever happen. What may occur is that their new false self narrative could be developed to mimic those people personalities/positions who's favor was lost in order to regain their favor. In this case the firefighter remains, and a new layer is added to the psyche. To sum up, when you troll someone, you are not doing it for them. You doing it for others. The act of trolling someone shows intense and deep disdain for that person. As an example, when /pol/ trolls the MSM, are they doing it because they like the MSM and want to see it changed? Or because they are actively working towards its destruction by altering how the public sees it?

Wait. Relativism or Christianity? You do know Stefan wrote a book called Universally Preferable Behavior: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics? And also one titled Against the Gods which is a short and sweet refutation of arguments for god? You understand UPB is the framework he has hung FDR on? He's not a Christian. And you folk who think he's just in the closet or something are actually projecting yourselves onto him. The truth is you really don't believe the Christian bull crap, and your inner rational being is trying to get out. If you think there is an end to this journey called life other than death, you're on the wrong boat. There can can be no greater relativism in morality than "because god said so."

Gautama never existed. Like Jesus, he's a fable. Proof of his existence would be in order if you are going to use him for real world examples. Nirvana doesn't exist, which means you can't use achieving Nirvana as an example of survival. Examples of holy men who do not procreate cannot be used as examples of survival. I gave you a very basic premise of "man survives because of his preferences", which is a statement based on biology, and all I got in return was a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Not one argument. Now before you accuse me of not understanding eastern thought you should know I studied it for years before finally learning real philosophy. There are great things that come out of the east, philosophy isn't one of them.

This is my last attempt. No it does not take a lot of time. It didn't take a lot time with her. Which is what I said. Go back and read my post again. It did not take hardly any time at all for me to know that she could reason. Patience and calmness do not denote a large amount of time. It just means I give her the benefit of the doubt in that small moment. She has never made me regret that. Her moments of irrationality last a few minutes at most. You on the other hand just flat out lied and manipulated. I NEVER ONCE said it was just a few specific questions. That was all you. Go back and read the thread, you'll see. You created the straw man and are trying to knock me down with it. That's pretty sick. Thanks for putting it on display for everyone. I'm done.