RyanT

Yeah, I’ve been into self-sufficiency on and off since I was a kid, so some of Stef’s comments have stuck in my craw the first time around, but certainly in the example of "Testosterone Based Parasites" he specifically asked her, ‘is he running the landscaping firm (i.e the thinking side of things) or just mowing lawns and hauling rocks’… to which she obviously answered the latter. So basically boils down to another, ‘Well I know a tall Asian!’ situation. Sure we can find examples of people who’re expending vast amounts of brainpower on really intricate and complex scientific ideas and processes…and reaping the financial benefits. But for the vast majority and certainly in the specific example he’s talking about here, that’s simply not the case? NAFALT - 'Not All Farmers Are Like That'?

''Sadness is the coward's anger'' Testosterone Based Parasites

First off, massive respect to you here Erik, for your commitment to consistency, abcqwerty123 nailed it though and it's not like you're qualified and weighing up the choice between teaching in a private school (again kudos) or taking the easy option of a job for life regardless of performance, provided by the state. Here the 'choice' has pretty much already been made for you. Besides like you say, with all the money you've either been taxed directly or had stolen through inflation...you've already paid for it many times over.

That's certainly what I thought until quite recently...after giving up on 'commercial porn' due to the aforementioned ethical qualms, I got quite into a few girls who'd post nudey pictures and videos to tumblr ect. With that idea, 'She's obviously getting pleasure from doing it...everyone's a winner'. Fairly often though, girls would suddenly disappear, only for it to turn out some sad little wierdo had found out who they actually where and decided to 'get their attention' by either 'dropping their dox' or even exposing them to friends, family and work colleges...Potentially skewing up their careers and causing massive turmoil in their personal lives...not to mention the danger of them tracking the girl down to do god knows what..(Something Stef discussed in the show 'The Dangers of BEING a Sex Worker') So they're engaging in some pretty risky/destructive behavior, which encouraging could be seen not as empathy but enablement?

Yeah, remember seeing Damien Hirst's 'Away from the Flock' a few years ago in Leeds, and after the initial 'wow that's the famous sheep in a tank of formaldehyde', I suddenly thought 'wow that's just a sheep in a tank of formaldehyde' I think a lot of that stuff is classic 'emperors new cloths syndrome', Whereas in a less dysfunctional society people won't be so burdened with fears of rejection and ridicule from their peers.

Well by the same token mate shouldn't children be able to decide what they want as toys, even if that includes playing in you toolbox? Your second premise I just can’t follow. I certainly I got a lot on this topic from the show, ‘The Dangers of Unschooling’

Yeah, I had a mate at university who was a bit of a ‘trendy alternative lefty’ who’d really loved Moore’s films (and zeitgeist ect…) but by the time I met him he'd really grown to despised the bloke. The thing that really did it was finding out, while in London he’d been staying in the Ritz-Carlton, but conducting interviews at a much cheaper hotel around the corner, to keep up that façade of being this radical outsider, just "an Average Joe from Flint, MI".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes I got the impression you couldn't or wouldn't go get therapy and so were going to try and rationalize that by claiming journaling alone is just as good. I think the anger came from the fact it is such a big, difficult (and often maligned) decision for people, so it would be very tempting to readily accept such a get-out. As I alluded to in my first post I've probably been talking myself out of therapy for 2 years...but I'm in a position now where in a few months I'll have about an extra £200 a month free and I know I've just got to do it...no more excuses. Still really scared though, 'What if it turns out I'm just too broke to fix?' 'What if all the therapists I find are morally subjective nobheads who tell me I should forgive my parents and 'try and see things from their perspective'?'...... Then there's the financial side, certainly in the past I've experienced a lot of short-term gratification from doing-up parts of my house (which is in a pretty tatty state of repair). Quite often the thought creeps in, 'Maybe if I just really concentrated on that, (spend £10k and easily add £30k onto the value) I'd be a lot happier/content/motivated and that'd translate into me getting a better job....then maybe do the whole therapy thing somewhere down the line....if I still think I need it' So yeah when I read that title my defenses really shot up.

Pretty sure it started when I saw the title of the thread before I'd even seen anyone else's comments, just remember getting really annoyed, and my perception at the time being of 'Sour grapes' from you.

Yeah, in the time between seeing the title and clicking on the link I’d already formulated some pretty negative expectations. Similar to James, I've seen a lot of people ( including myself at one time) who wouldn't entertain the idea of therapy, but had a plethora of quick fix 'alternatives'... That did really overshadow the post for me the first time around, but on re-reading it a few times can see what you're getting at. Indeed reckon journaling before and during therapy could actually save you quite a bit money, in terms of using the time most effectively and getting more out of it. Must admit I'm still a bit confused by the choice of title though...

Haha class,

Ah cool, managed to get the Saturday off so I'm all set

Well I feel his interactions so far in this thread have been really manipulative, Firstly with his insulting tone in the original post and when I pointed it out, he just doubled down with this one. At which point I didn’t see much point further engaging.

.....You're still doing it.

Been thinking about this a lot recently myself, Certainly as a child the reason I always remember being given as to why I had to live with my grandparents was basically looking after me full time was incompatible with my mother’s job as a psychiatric nurse..... So yeah very negative early experience of ambition there. On the other hand similar to Omega, My Grandparents were painfully working class, grandad had gone down the coal mines pretty much straight from school and stayed there until he finished due to ill heath 40 years later. While my grandma had worked as an auxiliary nurse for a few yeas then a school dinner lady. Throughout most of my childhood my dad worked in a warehouse driving the forklifts and picking orders....'fuck all in terms of ambition' Above all though I think the very simple and straightforward answer is...there's just no pressing need. When my gran was alive, I was tipping up £150 a month, everything after that was basically spending money. Now I've a mortgage, house insurance, gas and electric bills, council tax...and I need to eat, suddenly ambition has a bit of value in my life.

Oh aye Auger the thing about so-vile is it was pretty much common knowledge what he was into, I remember hearing jokes and innuendo about him being a necrophiliac on TV in the 2000's, but that's as far as anyone was willing to go with it..

OK before you start trying to win people over to an idea, about how to win people over to an ideait might be a good idea not to first insult them?'Look I think you're all a bunch of range filled emotionally unstable dogmatists ....but hear me out'but yeah I don't go around introducing myself as an anarchist, because for most people it conjures up images of little middle class 'social justice warriors' who like to run around dressing in black smashing windows, and indeed 90% of the people I meet in my everyday life...I don't even bother talking politics with, it'd be a totally futile exercise. but even within that 10% of people who're quite open to radical stuff, up to and including the idea of a stateless society...I'm still very cautious bringing up voluntary relationships in their personal lives....that's where you really start hitting raw nerves.I mean of all the Anarchist thinkers out there today, who gets the most shit and abuse? Stefan....because he dares to talk about the family.

I’m in the UK so probably not all that applicable…sufficed to say it’s expensive. Been living alone for about 15 months now and did find it a bit of a culture shock, A big mistake I made was to go through an initial 'honeymoon period' where I was enjoying having my own place, while carrying on with the spending habits I'd developed before. Little things like a meal out here a takeaway pizza there, books and DVDs from Amazon, all add up, by the time it hit me I'd taken a decent chunk out of my savings. Which with bills and everything I'm only just gradually putting back. Other than that though, hasn't been so scary

Yeah, very disingenuous... Three questions jump to mind, How many women actually want this sort of birth control but can't afford it? How much would it cost to provide them with this service? How much is being spent lobbying government for it?

Ah don't get me wrong I don't think he was doing it to annoy libertarians 'for teh lulz' but just that he was being totally disingenuous. Tyler nailed it, He acted as if he was concerned/curious about how these problems might be handled in a voluntary society, yet showed practically no evidence he'd actually taken even a cursory glance at the mountains of witting, videos and podcasts that are available on the topic.

Well that's the shtick isn't it? To these S.J.W's, anyone else making judgments based on someones age, would of course be guilty heinous ageism, but when they're doing it....and in the context of white males....

Eek yeah, I'd have probably even been like, 'aww that's caring of her' She seems to at least grasps that its pretty dysfunctional, but as Demosthenes said, 'she has an opinion of something and does the exact opposite of what she says.'. Indeed for me It'd probably make this an even bigger red flag than if she thought it normal and was happy with the situation, if that makes sense? Kinda like, 'if this amount of self-knowledge and awareness hasn't effected her behavior....what will?' Can certainly empathize with her though, as I was in a very similar situation with my grandma, she raised me and after my grandad died became progressively more dependent. I really didn't want to live like that, knew I should've been free, out in the world building my own life, but equally I knew without me there she'd basically be one of those lonely old ladies with nothing left to live for. Besides which by that stage she couldn't have looked after herself even if she'd wanted to....that's some guilt trip trap, so in the end I just stuck it out till she died. So, how old is this girls mother?

Ah it's pathological, I remember a lefty I was at university with, had a massive collection of books, many weighty tomes that'd easily set you back £30 apiece....turns out he'd made a real hobby out of nicking them from libraries. The worst one came when he needed a very popular textbook for an assignment due in the next week, of course all copies had been checked out so he went into the 'key text' section and stole it from there. What utterly shitty behavior? Ripping off the university and public library is one thing, but in that instance there's a good chance some poor bastard in a similar situation was then forced to buy the very expensive text from Amazon....and probably stump up for next day delivery. Just so he could work on the essay from the comfort of his own bedroom. How could someone with that little empathy even contemplate a voluntary society?

That really struck me too, I made it to 1:47 and though to myself, 'how can you take someone seriously when they're claiming to be really concerned about how an problem might be dealt with in an anarchist society, the chances are, none of us will live to see?' ...kinda a big red flag, that you're being trolled.

Wow.....