Laforge

Imagine for the moment that you're right and the fact that so much is currently produced in China has _nothing_ to do with an obscene amount of government laws and regulations in the west. But now also imagine the west is suddenly enlightened by anarchy. No more taxes, licenses, permits and fiat money. Now; Do you really think people will massively start starving in the streets? or, Do you think people will start growing their own food, re-building factories and selling goods and services in win-win negotiations?

Before the government took us off the gold standard, one working man could support an entire family on a low pay job. Buy a car and a house. (If, back then, he invested in precious metals, he also would have a nice pension) After the huge fiat manipulations in the last 40 years, what happened? We have now have women in the work force and huge improvements in automation. Who got richer? The average person or the political banker? Really we currently have nothing even remotely close to a free capitalism. The average not-so-ambitious Joe will not work 20 different boring jobs if one is sufficient. He will have time to spend with his children, do art, music, lay at the beach or whatever.

Owwh i totally understand how you think, Thomasio. It is how i was raised. Don't confuse Stefan's use of the word capitalism with anything political. He just means 'freedom', 'no force'. Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JApAQlANyzg To note on your practical example, let's imagine a world where: - the store where you buy your food/clothes/lumber/ipad/car is NOT forced to pay taxes on every transaction - none of the merchants and producers who produced those things are forced to pay taxes on any of the parts or worker wages - none of the transporting companies are required to pay taxes on the diesel for their trucks. No petrodollar. - anyone can start selling stuff from their house and become a 'legal' employer with the snap of a finger. - no employer is ever forced to pay a minimum wage + pension + health care to any worker - any "poor worker" could buy/loan a cheap second hand car or camper van and live out in the woods, permanently, practically for free Now; Do you think this worker will be poor when everything is so cheap and everyone can find a job? or Do you think he'll be able to work for 4 hours/week as a cleaner and be able to live comfortably with all conveniences? There is no way to compare prices in this world to a free world. Everything is way too manipulated by government and their buddy-bankers. I bet our current high-tech computer automated world is much more wealthy than anyone would guess.

Could the next part focus slightly more broadly to include other parts of the world? I find it hard to identify the data which may not be relevant to the European tax farms. Huge thumbs up for this rational approach!

Staggering amount of research, a fantastic presentation! It does feel like info is pumped into you due to the fast pace. But being from europe, a lot of the names were new to me. Plus talking more calmly would make it 6hrs of video i guess. Don Corleone says

Hey good example! I've struggled with the democracy argument quite a bit myself. Until i finally got round to listening to Stefan's (audio)book Everyday Anarchy. The arguments against democracy found there can only be described as über. This is an okay place to start from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfAbYlFqut4 Ůber: https://freedomainradio.com/free/

Tricky stuff. Don't forget we are still living in some sort of dark ages, especially on this matter. Did anyone try very calmly and politely: - can i ask you something? "yeah, what?" - sorry for bothering you, i was just wondering, suppose someone much smarter than you and twice your size hit you because you made a mistake, how would you feel about that? Theres a small chance you'll get a calm intelligent conversation, more likely they'll say: "but... its a KID!" Or things will escalate even sooner: "are you trying to tell me how to raise my kids?!!" Imho you're already a hero for opening your month and can proudly walk away without saying one more word. If we're lucky this little story will stick in his/her mind like a brain virus. Assuming the parent isn't a complete sociopath.

A new micro country in eastern europe, check out a short article from the country's website: http://liberland.org/en/about/ Apparently they are talking about using bitcoin+gold http://liberland.org/en/forum/?threadID=1615349180552d9bd2eb58c

Yep it can be frustrating to try to make people think. Consider that your energy may be wasted if they don't even become curious. Anyway i'm also controlled by the dutch state (yey!), so: welkom.

Could you make your question a bit more specific; i guess my question is: what would be a relevant thing to tell/ask from an anarchist country as a whole? If the statist country wants to do business, say: buy cars, then they could directly contact the anarchist car manufacturer. No licenses required and no mafia lord has to be consulted for permission (but i repeat myself :-)

Do you have a link to the video you're referring to? I don't see yet how you could make a short funny film about spanking while combining it with a serious representation of DROs. Nevertheless your initiative will certainly be appreciated! I think this one is a lot of fun: https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/43897-is-anarchism-a-disease/

Quite a worrisome development. Worst case the state may try to reshape the internet landscape completely: free: news, government websites, banks, email. 10 $/month: wikipedia, skype, licensed webshops 20 $/month: google, websites allowed by google, limited youtube, spotify 50 $/month: youtube, most websites but not: torrents, tor, vpn, bitcoin clients, fdrurl.com 150 $/month: full tcp/ip support + free listing as potential terrorist at your local police station. so don't be surprised if a drone is frequently hovering at your window or cops looking to fine you for jaywalking. Everything ofcourse heavily data limited with penalties "to cover copyright infringement" Maybe some internet-prepping could be wise so download: - kiwix =offline wikipedia, about 50 gb - gutenberg =offline book collection, about 45 gb (i didnt check it out yet but sounded useful) - keep loads of movies and music on encrypted external hdds. - don't forget tons of hard core porn and FDR media (but i repeat myself)

Yup i'm just concerned that (through propaganda like above) the state will try to 'incorporate' libertarian values. Like: hmmm, people are starting to listen to FDR, quick! Do what you did in history with successful companies: try to make FDR part of the state. They'll show one of many videos proving the state is evil where only the against-me argument is used. And then yell "We fixed it thanks to FDR!!" "We are no longer criminals!" ...and one week later sign a bill to increase the empire's external military bases to 1000. Whats tricky is that the majority of people don't know FDR and will only remember Stefan in the way that he is first introduced by the fascist media. I don't think they'll actually show 'the story of your enslavement', that may draw a too clear picture for people. I don't think this thread really has much debating value here. I just hope that if FDR reads this, they'll have a strategy ready if the state tries to pull this unholy group hug.

http://shadow.cash/ Sounds promising or just another altcoin? Any opinions/experiences?

I don't get it but it seems like the thread is really going somewhere. [/adding suspenseful background music] Awesome Vika is awesome.

The party joint analogy Now the cap makes sense, it must be Stefan with makeup working his undercover angle.

I genuinely think FDR is awesome and want to extrapolate its success here. Let's assume it won't be long before the whole statist world starts to really take notice of voluntaryist principles. Say, thanks to the internet, around 2018 Stefan really hits the media positively. (maybe some intelligent rich famous people finally start to agree with him and donate the living shit out of FDR ) The politicians will probably hate his guts but will as always try to manipulate everything to their advantage. The current rulers certainly don't want to give up their power so what i think will happen is this: They'll use the 'Against Me' argument against FDR. "Ok, so you don't want to pay 100% of your taxes?" "Fine, we won't initiate force against you." "But... you are not allowed to leave your house and enter 'our' state-owned property, you lose those rights" "We'll point a camera with motion sensors at your door to make sure you don't enter the public domain. Maybe we'll fence you in." "We'll turn off your water, gas, electricity and maybe even block your sewer pipes." "Now do you wanna pay taxes? Or would you prefer to be 'voluntarily' put in a rape cage for five years?" Naturally it won't be explained like this in the media. The 2018 media may say something like: "Stefan has a 100% free american heart and he has helped upgrade our horrible philosophical void into a proud nation again!" "Welcome to North America, the only true voluntaryist lands where we DON'T initiate force against citizens" Any insights on how the against-me argument can still be used then?

This vid has a lot of content from Practical Anarchy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBrxWEU2LmQ And happens to be one of my favorites, really great to hit newbies in the face with ^^ The only thing missing imho is a detailled explanation of what exactly Stefan does with his hamster.

Did i pick up the word 'Choir' from that video?? Check out the Youtube band 'Pentatonix'. They are one seriously pimped-out choir! They have a couple of religious songs but i don't think they are. Main page: https://www.youtube.com/user/PTXofficial For those who can appreciate an early christmas vibe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ_MGWio-vc I've always been a 100% atheist (and former leftist) but there is certainly a team-building aspect to religion from which the FDR community can learn. As long as we're careful not to take the wide paint brush of propaganda and ignoring the pedophile inquisition which may always be lurking around the corner, waiting to grab power again through the priesthood-class as soon as democracy collapses. P.S. i really think this peaceful parenting thing is the way to go

Does Morality Apply to Animals Moral Categories Explained https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQHCVqZHBdw But perhaps an even more interesting question would be to what degree these new C3PO's would assign morality to us: The Second Renaissance Part 1 & 2 (The Animatrix) HD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l05WHHrpusg

Again some great responses from all of you! Indeed at the very least we can settle on the fact that "someone claiming agency" removing a person from a specific property is way better than the statist violence hole we are currently all born into. These responses+video will certainly strengthen my case when trying to convince statists in my own circle. Carrey (or myself) could still whine a bit about "well how do i know that you have enforcement rights from the property owners?" "how do i know you're the real manager and not just the manager of the roofing team if i don't care for uniforms or titles?" "does some assistent-manager or cashier have the right?" but i guess those are a bit of a stale technicality to get in to. There seems to be some interest in situations where customers can be unreasonible, lets try a few different examples. So another real-world, non abstract unreasonible customer could be: 1. a super smelly+dirty person that buys a 1 euro ice-cream and tries to stay in the restaurant all day. 2. a person sitting and staring at some attractive cashier all day long. 3. a person refusing to leave an hour after closing time. I hope i don't have to dig up any more real-world shitty situations from memory. By the way even if the roles are reversed and the manager is really bad tempered, the same question of "does he have the right to..." still applies i think. The manager could, if he was anti-gun for some reason, tell him to leave. Or it depends on the company's policy if they have one. But i think the better/anarchist solution would be to ignore it. However here in Europe he couldn't set one step into any populated place without wearing a blue police uniform. Actually i think its not blue anymore but black with a few yellow stripes recently... I'm guessing next upgrade will be bulletproof vests and then remote controlled army-grade robots maybe. Perhaps after that we get injected with nanobots so us tax-livestock can be remote-deactivated or tortured. Saves prison space. Hmmm i'm sounding like a darker version of the song "In The Year 2525" by Zager and Evans.

Thanks for your responses! Please just insert any story that makes the manager sound reasonible and Carrey very unreasonible. Like she keeps demanding 100 euros compensation because her fries were too cold or something. I don't think those details are essential for the thread. I think most people will agree the manager can do some stuff but the question is why. From Carrey's point of view, she'd say: "Why should i let myself get pushed around by some clown in uniform who might have a contract with the property owners?" "Does this mean that the 'manager' of the roofing team (group R) can push me around as well??" "Bah allllways some guy in uniform who claims to be imbued with higher powers! It is NOT your property! So you don't touch me!"

I'd like to describe a practical situation which currently is mostly solved by calling guys with title "Policeman" + uniform. But i am puzzled by how it could be solved the anarchist way. Assume a European WacDonalds fastfood restaurant. It is very busy. We can rougly divide the relevant people into four groups: group M - 6 WacDonalds workers consisting of one manager + two cassiers + three cooks. group R - roofers, currently the roof is being waterproof-recoated by a 4 man team. group C - customers where lady Carrey is really annoying, however she is well educated in philosophical anarchy. group I - 5 investors from company Invertor in Tokyo, Japan. They own the WacDonalds property and employ both groups M and R. Situation: Lady Carrey is really annoying, demanding unreasonible things from the manager. Things verbally escalate and it turns into a scene. So now the manager _really_ wants her to leave. Problem: How could he achieve this? From Carrey's point of view, group M has no more rights to be there than group R. So why would the manager have more rights? Can he initiate force and push her off the property? Just because he wears the title "Manager" + uniform? Company Invertor owns the property, but each of the investors only own 20%. Plus they are in Tokyo. So it's kinda out of the question for at least 3 of 5 (60% ownership) or all 5 (100% ownership) to fly over and defend their property rights, right?

I agree with both of your wise words! Thanks for your insights.

Okay that is some fine reasoning Josh, thank you. It seems you have rebutted my original situation sketch assuming the enraged family is successful in freeing the slaves and 'accidentally' killing Bob. I think it's well worth discussing what kind of rules regarding private property DRO's should have. Why so much nitpicking? Well, see my previous post for horrible escalations. We just can't afford mistakes here and find out about it after we've all invested our lives in peaceful anarchy. This forum seems excellent to come up with horror stories and see how a rational anarchist community can fix it. So far as i understand, the laws/guidelines for anarchy are: 1 don't initiate force 2 respect private property 3 don't support any organization which doesn't respect 1 or 2. Now suppose Bob specifically targets girls with pacifist/deceased parents to enslave. Suppose a few 90-year-old witnesses saw the kidnapping and sadly for Bob, now every DRO knows what he is doing. Bob, again, is assumed to be reasonibly immune to ostracism. So which organization can now invade and violate private property according to "their internal rules"? What will they do with Bob? Perhaps we should call things by their proper name, a DRO with "special internal rules" = a state without forced taxation? Maybe not so bad but not really pure anarchism either.