Yeravos

Thank you for the elaborate post Demosthenes! I'd like them to stay, at least when it's a person I enjoy spending time with, like the friend I mentioned before. Also, I believe there is a part of me that feels abandoned kind of? That ''Well, that was enjoyable. But now it's gone.'' The thing about passive strikes a cord in me. I also resort to being passive, fearing to act in a way that will cause people to dislike me. I am glad to hear that you have moved pass these issues. Can I ask, how severe they were, and how you managed to finally put them behind you? That is actually a profound trait in me... That I dare not do things on my own if it is for example work-related. I will instead ask someone who knows, and ask them exactly how something is done, so that I do not screw up. It can be really insignificant, small things that I DO know what to do with. But I'll still ask ''How''? That is very interesting... I haven't seen this in such a conscious way before. I'd have the urge to do that if I knew you somewhat, yes. I am very quick to please others if they ask for help, going on automation practically. And yes, I think you are right. I am mistaking needs in a healthy adult-to-adult relationship with a toxic adult-to-child relationship. And to get to the core of where that guilt is coming from will help me see that I do not have that kind of toxic relationship anymore.

Yes, that is spot on. Thanks for chiming in Robert! I think I have come to the same conclusion.

I have problems with assertiveness. That includes when other people around me express assertiveness, and when I wish to be assertive. I spoke about this just now with another FDR-member. We had talked for a while, when he said that while he really enjoyed our conversation, he had to go and get some sleep. This evoked a feeling of sadness and guilt on my part. I felt as if I had done something wrong in the interaction, that I had been inconsiderate. We took some time to talk about my experience, and turns out, suprise suprise, he said it had nothing to do with our conversation. If he could, he would have loved for it to keep going. It's just he had to get some sleep. What I could gather from thinking about it and talking with my friend, is that before, other peoples needs have been negative to me. Especially with my mom. That she used to express, both implicitly and explicitly, that I was bothersome to her. That my existence was interfering with her needs. What is a dependant child supposed to do in such a situation? Why, the logical course of action, is to reject yourself, by becoming critical of yourself and learning to please your parent, and in the end, please others. A people-pleaser. This is one side of the ''assertive-coin'' relating to me. The other side of it, is to express needs of my own. I find it very difficult to express my needs. I will say yes to things, even though I want to say no. And if I have a need, I will most likely no bring it up, having a voice telling me ''You will bother that person if you do that! They'll get annoyed with you! You do not have any value to offer! Your needs are inferior to other people's needs''. And I bend to that critical voice, staying quiet when I have a need. It ties in with what I wrote above about my mother. Not only did I have to make sure I did not interfer with her needs, I also had to supress my own needs because they annoyed her. The guy I talked to has similar problems. So we decided that we are going to work on getting more assertive with our needs, and deal with our feelings arising around the assertiveness of eachother. Are there other people here who have experienced/experiences similar relationships with assertiveness? I'd love to hear other people's perspectives, as always

Thank you for your sympathy darknova. I appriciate it. Yes, it was difficult to get this out. I think I have been avoiding it for some time now.

Thanks for chiming in MMX2010. Yeah, getting away from unwanted relationships makes self-knowledge a whole of a lot easier in my opinion. Everything becomes more clear. Glad to hear that you'll be getting away from that And yeah, I could actually relate to that. Done some of that myself I believe. Trying to wean myself off that. Thank you for sharing Chiken Foot. Great to hear that you are making progress, and getting those ever so sweet ''Aha!'' moments! I find a lot of similarities with my own progress in self-knowledge, as you are describing here. And the ''being in the moment'' part is something I have started to work on aswell, instead of fearing what lies ahead, robbing me of the happiness I have. It's difficult, but it's progress. Like you mention, to let that lighter part of myself have a say in matters in my own mecosystem.

Hello Talche, welcome to the forums!

Welcome Bennbo!

Hello Travis, nice to meet you, and welcome! If you havn't seen it already, there is a few subforums that could be of interest to you. If you want some advice on your forementioned crossroads, I'd suggest the subforum Self-knowledge. And for philosophy, there is the Philosophy subforum of course. Again welcome, hope you find great conversation here!

Hej Adrian, welcome to the forums! I am sorry to hear that you were born to such a horrible mother. It's tragic that you'd have to go through that. But, I am also happy that you've found your way to the forums, you will surely find a lot of likeminded people here!

Welcome to the forums Louis! How wonderful that you've found so much value in FDR! Keep it up!

Well done! You courage is astonishing! So happy to read about this

Thank you for sharing Chiken Foot. Yes, we see to share a very similar problem. I also struggle with that, wanting to contribute to other posts, but blanking out, getting nothing. It's really annoying, when one has benefitted so much from the forums, and you want to give something back, you find it so hard to do. I am glad to hear you are making breakthroughs in regards to your problem. What kind of breakthroughs have you had? Thank you for your encouragement Ferssitar! Yes, the part about feeling dissociated makes sense to me, kind of like being exposed to a foreign language. I am sure I can break free, like you said, I just have to keep talking honestly from my experience in the present with people. I have to speak the language to the best of my capabilities, and in time, I'll learn it. I have to reach out, to break my cycle of isolation.

I am not sure how to start this. For quite some time now, I have felt ambiguous towards the FDR community. On one hand, I see the community as one of the most beautiful things on this planet, if not the most beautiful. The honest, kind people it is inhabitated by. The flourishing of ideas, the unwavering support to eachother, is beyond words. But, on the other hand, I feel like I am not part of it. That I am alien to it. That my interactions here, from my side, are false, self-serving, vain, evil. Sure, some of it has been self-serving, and yes, some vanity has driven me here. But it isn't core to WHY I am here, it is a sandcastle on a beach, that I am certain of. But, a part of me blows these acts of vanity and self-serving out of porportion, judging me as sinister, as not worthy of being in this community. Although, I think to myself, I am not engaging a whole lot with the community. Is it then really that weird if I don't feel like I am a part of it? And then I realize, after a while, something I have concluded before: I am afraid of trying to connect with people, both in real life and here on the boards. Several factors play into this. For one, I find it hard to empathize with people. Like, sometimes, if I hear of something terrible someone has been through, I feel next to nothing. And I understand that others DO feel something in response to hearing the same thing I am hearing (happens a lot when Stef is talking with callers). And I hear a voice say ''You are a broken human being! Disgusting.'' Based on that, I deduct that I will have a harder time connecting with people, because I cannot fully sympathize with them. Another part of it, is me fearing to talk with people in general. When I think of doing just that, I hear inside myself, that I will not bring anything of worth to the table. That I will waste the other persons time. This is reflected greatly in my life, where I might want to engage in conversation with someone I know or want to get to know, but I do not dare. ''Maybe they are busy, I shouldn't disturb.'' Or, ''If they wanted to talk with me, they'd start talking to me''. Anyway, it really hit me yesternight. I broke down into absolute despair, crying like I have never cried in my life before, for an hour, truly realizing that I want to be part of this community, so badly. But that I feel like I am unable to acomplish it. That either I will keep myself from trying to be a part of the community, or attack myself when I try to be a part of the community. And it was tearing me apart, still is. Because I want it so badly. I connection, real, deep connection, with this community. Because, the people that it is made out of, are so wonderful, so brave, so honest. And I so want to be a part of that. I can feel the tears well up behind my eyes as I am writing this. I want it so much. And the thought of never feeling like I was connected to this oasis of human goodness, going to the grave without having had that, is so grim, is so terrifying. Before, when I have experienced these feelings, heard these thoughts, I have 99% of the time, went into solitude. Tried to find my answers in logic, in books. Numbed the pain with video games, and with embracing the voices telling me that I am broken, that I am forever lost. That strategy, of isolating when feeling isolated, has not worked so far. So that's why, I now reach out, put out my emotional state, my thoughts, and my feelings. Hoping that I can break my loneliness. Something that has crossed my mind, is that ''Maybe I don't know how to connect with people? Maybe I don't speak that language. That I can only connect if others engage me first, that I just know how to be passive and reactionary?'' I don't know whether this is true or not. The title just came to me. Yesternight, in my despair, something came to me: Maybe, I am having a Simon the boxer experience, but instead of boxing, I am isolating myself from others? It makes some sense to me. For 10 years of my life, from the age 6 to 16, I was bullied, both verbally and physically, but mostly verbally. From age 10, I started to actively avoid people. I worked hard to make as little noise as possible, to avoid being noticed by bullies. And home was my sanctuary, where I was free from school-bullies, free to numb the pain with hours upon hours of video games. But no connection. My mom was, and still is, a selfish, cruel, sadistic, evil women, who'd make fun of me, make fun of my preferences, and yell at me. And my father, he acted as if I didn't exist. Unless he felt like I needed to be put to work, because he thought In was lazy. I have known, for all of my existence, there has been only one thing that has been a constant for my father: That he has always, always been a disapointment to him. That I have always failed him. it's always been there, in the background, in his eyes and in his voice. I noticed that I didn't describe my feelings for my father as I did with my mother. Or, rather, the truth about who he is. I don't know why. Maybe I am still chained to him emotionally in some way, because the words don't seem to come as easy to me when I am writing about him. I am sorry if this post is confusing. I am, myself, feeling all over the place while I am writing this. If you have made it this far, thank you. Really. It's a lot of text. I hope that this can set me on the path of understanding this part of my being. If you feel that I have missed an obvious important point/connection/contradiction, whatever it might be, please, feel free to be as honest with me as you possibly can. This is me, breaking my emotional isolation.

That is really heartwarming Joel!

I think it's an interesting thought Wesley. I can imagine that a lot of work and date would be required, seeing as there are so many factors that play out in childhood, so many different kinds of abuse, positive rolemodels, outside of the home abuse. Something that I thought I'd mention is that in the case of this A.C.E test, it only deals with home environment. My home environment was pretty horrible. But, it was a sanctuary compared to school, for almost all my school-years. So in my case, a lot of background is not taken into account with the A.C.E test.

I got into IFS 2 months ago, and the base-book I use right now is ''Self-Therapy'' by Jay Earley, and I think it's really well written, and through it I have gained several insights. It explains, step by step how you can teach yourself to listen and interact with your different parts, and it does it pretty well I'd say. I haven't read any of Richard Schwartz though, so I can't say whether it's better or not.

Those are some really interesting thoughts Kevin. Thank you! Just wanted to mention how much this was my situation in school too. Keeping a low profile, try to show no emotion, make no sound, be invisible, hide your true self. An incredibly horrible situation to be in.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1430468680536528/?fref=ts There you go!

Incredible... The most beautiful thing I've ever read here. Stay strong, and bright!

I am not sure how to begin to reply to your post... Man, you have been through abyssal torture... You are NOT in the wrong. You were NOT in the wrong. Fuck the people who sides with your hellish abusers. Fuck their disgusting cowardice, their appaling immoral character. I think this is really important for you to hear and understand. That you not talking to your abusive father, is NOTHING to be ashamed of. They ones that tell you that, THEY are they ones who should be ashamed! Massive congratulations, really, for getting out of your dangerous addictions. To me, that is a sign of a beautiful, strong spirit and I think you should be extremely glad that your motorcycle accident didn't claim that bright soul of yours. You have gone through hell, several times over. You've been incredibly hurt, both physically, mentally and emotionally. And yet here you are. Here you are, free from both alcohol and cocaine. You broke up with your abusive partner. You are able to look at your past, even though it's a gruesome sight. And here you are, being courageous by writing all this. You seek help, because you want to be better. And you can get better! It will be a tough journey, but nothing will be as tough as what you have been through already. I think you'd benefit greatly from going into therapy. In fact, it could something you have to do, before you go into another relationship, if you want it to be healthy. Not only for your future romantic relationships, but for your life in general, therapy can really help you I think. I think that is really spot on, RyanT. What do you think NoTreason?

Aw, I'd join if I could afford it! But! I have created a FB group for swedish FDR listeners, you should totally join that group! And anyone that can attend the Göteborg meetup should do it, I bet it'll be a blast!

It's ok.Thanks for the now shown empathy! On a sidenote, by Stef's bald head, that's a BIG onion!

I guess I am approaching, or am already in a similar questioning phase like the one you describe Lians. ''Is there such a thing as life without pain and fear?'' I have contemplated this before. And saying no to that question evokes some sadness in me. But also some bravery. Thank you for sharing Lians, I appreciate it! This made me think. It's actually something I discussed with my therapist today (the topic was anxiety surrounding getting a job), and that I would imagine job situations going to hell before I had had them, and getting extremely anxious because I want to get a job and make money. Maybe self-loathing plays into that aswell (I am bad/worthless etc, therefore I will fired, or not hired). I will listen to the podcasts you linked to, thank you very much Kevin

I am terribly sorry for your situation Jake, and I'll chim in with any help I can. Are you 100% out of any options? If not, what are all the options you can think of?

To all swedes out there, listen now! A facebook group called Freedomain Radio - Svenska lyssnare has just been created, meant to serve as a place for swedes/people who speak swedish to gather! So waste no time, go to facebook and request to become a member, and let the community-nizing commence! Ses i gruppen! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1430468680536528/?fref=ts