RyanT

Totally get it feeling a little bittersweet if maybe the guy walked away thinking you were some disciplinarian, but as Patrick said, serious compliment to you family and parenting all the same.

Yeah, the little girl's visibly distressed, verging on tears, how anyone can find that 'cute'?

Think Wuzzums nailed it, He betrayed his girlfriend, now it seems he wants to normalizing that by putting you in a position whereby you can either be complicit in his betrayal or else 'betray' his confidence by telling her, thereby putting the 'responsibility' on you for them breaking up and losing the house.....

Don't know about that....

Yeah Kings Cross sounds pretty convenient, can't make it for 10, but should be able to get in for 10:40 all being well.

Ah according to reports we’re in for ‘A blend of sunshine and cloud’ which sounds ideal for a nice walk, can’t fault those views. What am I hoping to get from meeting up…. Think it’ll be great just to be around rational people for a few hours lol, but yeah since coming to FDR and engaging on the forum I’ve found this community absolutely amazing, and in the long term I know it’s going to grow and develop into something very tangible outside in ‘the real world' too, and I really want to be there when it happens.

As the immortal line goes 'So, how's that working out for you?' Of course we can probably find the odd rare exceptions but occupation wise, you basically start at the very bottom and work your way up. Certainly I've never met anybody who's now earning any sort of honest living who didn't at some point have a really boring job they hated...or for that matter a successful entrepreneur who wasn't previously doing well for themselves as an employee. Indeed looking back at the kids I grew up with, in pretty much 9/10 of cases, regardless of intelligence, talent or even social skills those who were flipping burgers, waiting tables or stacking supermarket shelves at 16 are now well on their way in their chosen career, while those who didn't have a job by 20 ( myself included) are now flipping burgers, waiting tables or stacking supermarket shelves. powder nailed it, you've got to learn those skills and pretty much the only way to do it's to actually go out there and genuinely live off the value you provide the world.

You realize that's not an argument right? Indeed you pretty much answer your own question, People driven by 'ignorance and tradition' blatantly don't have the facilities to reason? therefore how can they understand what it is to love or be a good (virtues) person?

Well you say that as if there's some profound distinction? (Which of course in 'current mainstream society' there is) but aren't they both just different forms of abuse? Certainly though I'm not suggesting that all parents who hit incapable of change, but when you consider that this means totally abandoning lie's like, ''I spanked because I love my kid and want them to be a good person'' and accepting the responsibility that they inflicted irreparable damage on a defenseless child, simply as a means to alleviate their own anxieties.... It's 'a really big ask'? Especially for people who've already demonstrated themselves to be morally very weak.

'credibility with a rapist'? Seriously? Reckon further argument is pointless the minute you realize your dealing with someone so broken inside they have no way of processing the immorality of such an act. Which to be honest mate is the vibe I'm getting here...

Wow, that's a brilliant point hannah, because of course there's every chance the abusive parent will come away from the encounter full of rage, obviously while as a fully grown adult you're out of bounds for anything more than a snarky comment, the poor kid may well bare the brunt. So sometimes intervening can feel worse than futile, but when you put it like that, one of the most insidious aspects of child abuse is on some level most kids internalize that they 'must have deserved it', which society in general seems all too happy to validate. I've yet to meet anybody who was beaten as a child who doesn't have a variant of 'that story' where, usually getting changed for P.E, they realized the teacher staring at a bruise or a welt, only to sheepishly look away when they caught the child's eye or perhaps worse, actually voice concern only to smile and breath a sigh of relief when presented with a lie, so flimsy only a child could come up with (...that often they secretly prayed to get caught out in) So for someone to show them total sympathy, and to spell it out in those honest unambiguous terms, that's life changing stuff.

In an article titled 'Why I hate men' 'Super irony'?

Think you're onto something there Wuzz, Look at Tarantino, 'How can we set-up where the protagonist commits the most sadistic acts of violence, that the audience can sit enjoy and cheer on....totally guilt free?' 'Hmmm jews killing nazis?.....Ex slaves killing plantation owners?'

Sure Stefan's said before, whenever you hear someone say without government 'people' would just run about raping and robbing and killing, it tends to say a lot more about them than anything else....

Anti-Government, Anti-Police, National Socialists.....the mind boggles Apart from this of course and 'It's all the GUNS fault' I've also seen it reported that they liked dressing up as 'Slenderman' as if that's somehow relevant. Anything but talking about how bad parenting produces these damaged people and society in general's so messed up they can kinda blend in until they go out and do something like this?

Yeah, either is fine by me.

Welcome Sean!

Wow that was bone chilling, so sorry you were put through that by the people who were supposed to care for you. After my thread which he posted me and Thomas had a good discussion on the topic and a few things really stuck in my mind. That contempt you talk about was definitely an underlying factor with me and the girl I was engaging in BDSM with. On one hand I wanted this healthy, loving, gentle relationship based on respect and empathy yet whenever she came along telling me how much she craved punishment, humiliation and domination I just couldn't find the strength to resist. I really resented that and felt a lot of contempt towards her for her 'dragging me into it'. Which I'm pretty sure was exactly how she felt too. Certainly after that last row I was really hurt, angry and upset that she could think I was such a monster, just praying on her and carelessly using her for my own gratification but the truth is there was a fair amount of that going on in both directions. So in a pretty similar boat myself at the minute. Total up-most respect to you for sharing these experiences here and for taking ownership and striving to be a good man in-spite of it all.

I think first of all it's widely understood that family based trauma is much much more destructive that inflicted on us by outsiders, but also until you're 16-18 (obviously it's hard to draw a solid line), your welfare is your families responsibility. So they have more power over your life than anyone else....including you. It's like you forever see people saying things like 'I was bullied mercilessly at school, but my mum and dad were great' Really, how?

Definitely something in that one, we can all 'talk a good game' when it comes to material things but I think when you've been fundamentally been broken inside, they take on an even more significant value. I remember one of the last thoughts that passed though my head before I defooed from my mum was 'shit, when she finally kicks the bucket and we sell her house (well her older husbands house who's bound to go before her) me and my sister would be sharing the best part of £250,000...tempting. and I've found this often comes with the delusion 'they can't effect me anymore'. but they would if they could, and you gloat over your 'victories' when they try to ...but then you still feel like you 'love' them. It's all crazy?

I think I get what you're saying mate, certainly been thinking about this a lot recently and what's really struck me is this intricate sequence of 'luck, coincidence and accident' that lead me to FDR. At 19-20, I was a young 'white nationalist', not just one of those angry little keyboard warriors either, I'd been involved in 'organizations' since I was 15, go to every march and demo, meeting and piss up, so by then I was a bit of a face on the scene, had a little gang of 'good mates' and also a fiancée, I'd met though that stuff, so basically it was my whole life, my identity. Pretty sure I'd actually come across some of Stefan's anarchy videos on youtube and 'thought they were interesting', but to be honest I saw the whole thing quite cynically kinda 'Taking over the world's off the cards, but I could just about settle for an all white DRO', certainly avoided all the family and personal relationship videos (ya know the important stuff) Anyway to cut a long story short(er) there was some serious trouble with the law and that curtailed my activities for a while, me and my fiancee were also over that dysfunctional honeymoon period and the shit was really starting to show, in the end she met another guy, went off with him. what if she hadn't? What if we'd had a kid together? At the same time I'd been having serious doubts about that ideology, I'd had them before when I was about 17, but back then I'd just blocked them out, didn't have any other friends, couldn't fit into 'normal' society ect. This time however I had my then best mate, who I really looked up to, who was having similar feelings. If he hadn't? Chances are I'd have 'rinsed and repeat', 'it's a shitty little world but it's my shitty little world' We ended up smoking a lot of weed, getting heavily into conspiracy theories, David Icke and assorted new age mumbo jumbo. He moved down south to live on some sort of commune but I met a few other people at university also into that kind of stuff. Pretty soon though I started to see the bullshit (maybe if I'd not been though the whole neo-nazi phase it'd have taken longer?) To cap it all my new 'best mate I really looked up to' cooked up this plan to start buying a few ounces of weed from his dealer and selling it himself, of course he couldn't just go up to the guy and say, 'gimme a bulk discount so I can sell it on your patch' so he had the bright idea that maybe he could introduce me as his mate from Barnsley who wanted to start dealing at this end. Maybe at one time I'd have been well up for it, but my grandmother who'd raised me was dying and the last thing I wanted was to get locked up or get the shit kicked out of me to finish her off. So I said I was out....haven't heard from him since. I tried emailing, calling him, no reply. Less than 24 hours later my gran was dead, so if he'd called me the next day...... In the few months before that I'd started listening to FDR podcasts but as I got to the stuff on family relationships I was really really torn, I thought I was really close to my gran and loved her more than anyone in this world, now this bald guy from Canada was provoking me to ask all these uncomfortable questions. So I'd stopped listening. What if she'd got over that chest infection and lived to like 100? or I hadn't examined the new age mystic stuff before she died? The mind boggles.

Ah I'm pretty flexible with the time, working Saturday night but got the Sunday off, so anytime after 12 pm is fine with me too, think an activity based meet's a great idea, make a real day out of it. I'm up in Barnsley, so decent trek down south but well up for it, would struggle to get time off work if it's in July-August though.

that's shit terrible.... Can see the link to Dylan post because it's been my experience people who make such dismissive little statements, are nearly always the worst culprits themselves? recursive irony as he said...or just downright projection. I remember this girl I was seeing, had known her on/off for years and one day we got talking about people we'd gone to school with and she brought up this goth lad in our class, saying something along the lines of, 'I've got him added on Facebook and he just posts update after update about how depressed he feels and it really annoys me because he never does anything about it, get therapy or something, he's just wallowing in self-pity' No empathy for the guy, he's just 'annoying', Yet she would regularly complain to me about how stressful her job was, how she never got any recognition for all the work she was putting in and how her colleagues/superiors were all dicks/bitches towards her....and as far as I know she's probably still in the same job. Although that's manipulative people all over? 'These are the standards you can apply to me' *pointing to the ground* 'Those are the standards I can apply to you' *pointing to the sky*

My score was 5, Can really relate to what Kevin was saying, in that up until getting into philosophy I'd have probably argued I had a pretty decent childhood, by comparing it to extreme examples such as people who were sexually abused or had the crap beaten out of them on a regular basis. Neglect and a constant threat of abandonment however was ever present. Which as Stef has said is often the most insidious forms of abuse So as Rainbow Jamz said, reckon it would be very hard to compare FDR members to the average person through all the fog, What was it Pamela Anderson said 'I did not have an easy childhood, despite loving parents'.. Although of course things like the A.C.E test are valuable tools in that regard.

Ah pleasure was all mine, As I said did really like how you didn't go for the obvious analogy, and that line 'well it's reduced rape by 11%', could have straight out of the mouth of a statist! Pretty chilling...