RichardY

Oh no Skynet is becoming sentient we are all DOOMED, DOOMED!!!! I know the discussion has talked about "units". Does anyone have a price for their unit?(thinking of Beavis and Butthead) Automation does not have to be about producing cans of beans, it can be about producing bullets and bombs. Tractors to tanks, ploughshares to swords, bottlecapping mechanisms to machineguns. Factory worker to hitman. More to the heart of the matter, is the topic more about whether people are Selfish, Altruistic, Self-Interested, Curious of others, Pious, whether we live in a hostile universe or a benevolent one. The fear of the balance of power. You always act in your self interest(and it is selfish), would seem to say to me, you are what, you are, you are determined. Though was the Good Samaritan who helped the Jewish man from dying of his injuries selfish, was it even in his self interest as a Samaritan? Was it mercy? Ethics? or Stupidity. Or a more modern example from Goodfellas, was giving the guy kitchen towels, who got shot at the beginning of the film Stupidity. Would leaving somebody to probably die in the snow from a car breakdown, not be Evil when you would miss a TV show. If you were Selfish, would this not be an ethical matter?

I know I said that Nationalism is a "dirty" word, bizarrely though there are the SNP (Scottish National Party) who are technically National Socialists, go figure. Identity, seems to be at least in part the heart of the matter? Going along the lines of "National Socialism" there is at least some convergence of left (More R) and right wing (More K) mindset. Albeit some what coerced. By some hardcore of strongmen/thugs, who need a victim internally or externally. What would a Right wing Nationalism be? Germany as a country intact could be called The Fatherland by some. Broken down into its states, ends up being the former countries of Bavaria, Saxony, Prussia etc. broken down further you end up with the individual as the ultimate authority. In a relationship between a man and a woman, would it be fair to say(that is biologically sound) that the man should have the ultimate authority in political matters given the woman's dependence in child-bearing and usually raising. Left wing Nationalism end result would be Collectivism. The Motherland, and the all to often sited destruction of the family unit, so that something other than communism (which biologically does not endure) comes in instead i.e Marxism. Anarcho-Capitalism, about the "price" of capital, Austrian Economics covers this with a subjective theory of value. Are people Capital? To treat people as capital is to treat them as animals. Anarcho-Socialism (True Communism). Anarchy(Ethics) Imagine a void, is that even possible?... What's there? "Only what you take with you."(Yoda) A Kingdom of Heaven (Theocracy) Saudi Arabia, Sunni Islam turbo charged by the petrodollar. Christianity, purely from a materialistic perspective paying a 10% tithe, sounds better to me than a 40% tax rate in parts of Europe and fiat currency. Decentralisation Split of various areas around Europe found new groups, balance power struggles. Funding for activities? Succeed Bavaria (Catholic and wealthy) from Germany, England from the UK, appeal to local greed self preservation, starve larger states of funding. Plant idea in peoples minds. If someone were to create a Narrative for less coercion what would it be? Throwing around a few thoughts. Will probably edit, not complete.

Right, just seems redundant. Property Rights. Human Rights Animal Rights. LGBT Rights. The Right to Self Defence. The Right to an Atourney. The Right to a "Fair" Trial. The Right to "remain" silent The Right to not be tortured or murdered The Right to a Job. The Right to Shine Shoes The Right to Life. The Right to Prima Noctis (Braveheart, if there was one thing to piss people off that might be it, though Wikipedia basically says its BS, though not been to Scotland) Egg Sausage and Rights Rights, Rights, Beans and Rights

Selfish. "The Virtue of Selfishness" (Ayn Rand). Well I guess if someone wanted to be really.... selfish, they could have children if they were able. Explain the principle of self ownership to them, then tell them that Mummy or Daddy might need a Liver transplant in 15 years. But its OK as you have self ownership and can refuse. I don't think Ayn Rand had children, but I would guess she went through some soul rending horrors.

Might.

Said Genghis khan, as he impregnated 20% of Asia. Or more contemporary Angela Merkel, Tony Blair and ilk, when they opened the borders to the 3rd World. Any Europeans want to hold a celebration or send them a thank you? Ethics is the right kind of attitude, although a very large part of me really wishes I had a limited concept of it. Though capitalism could be kind of fun, "best" system in place, some potential to be a complete "dick", not that anyone here necessarily would be.

So could focus be seen as a transfer of information? The better image being influenced by; current frame of mind, being male or female, repeating patterns,spectrum of light, movement, facial recognition etc. Interpretation seems to have a large effect. At what point though does a desire become a need? Physiologically you can go without food for more than 30 days, psychologically maybe a lot of people would struggle to fast for 3 days. Perhaps the more you need, the more you are determined. The more you desire, the greater the freewill you experience. What would be the best desire to hold long term? and what is "is"? To expand further. (Subtle, but important change from focused to focus.) ------------------ Unintended meaning on my part. As looking again at my question I get the answer "death". Kind of like the film Final destination. To rephrase. So would you say that being "focused" "can" have an end-point? ("ultimate end-point" was me contrasting with "outcome") Survival..... An interesting answer to explore. I think most people would say that they are not the same person 20 years a go, both mentally and physically or even perhaps a week a go. Yet something remains.... To be as is(infinity), to not change. If you can not remember, were you even alive.

So from a.. Mathematics stand point, as an example you could have a single locus as a point in space. To stretch that further you could have two loci as points to construct a circle. (Focus Points, Convergent?(Tautological?)) Going more towards Physics and Reality. For a sphere, would not the centre point be infinitesimally small as to not exist. I think something called string theory, puts forward the idea of particles being strings as opposed to spherical atoms. (No Focus Point, Divergent) Biological, two images enter the brain, each through each eye, which one is the brain focused on? (No Focus Point, Divergent) Psychological, (No idea), heard that Mike Ceronovich talks about "frames" in his book "Gorilla Mindset" (not read it) I think from a podcast somewhere. (No Focus point, Divergent) Philosophical, convergence to, cancel out evil? (A "potential" Focus Point, Convergent) So would you say that focus has an ultimate end point?

You can use machines to calculate, but at the end of the day, there remains no need for them to do so. Automate thought? Automate Calculations.

How?

I wonder if the "We Did it!" after Trump got elected was premature. My cynical side says it was, kind of like the film Dr Strangelove before the Bomber gets through. No people, no problem. Radical/Extreme Islam? How is following what the Koran says extreme or radical. Nationalist uprising? Seems half-cocked. Nationalism has had so much rubbish dumped on it, its a dirty word. Switzerland has had some confederation going for awhile, perhaps something similar in Europe could work. Doesn't bring up images of German StormTroopers or Redcoats. Though I wonder who ultimately is going to have the muscle on the ground. Perhaps the military could do something, they are only around because of tribal conflict or else they'd be thugs.

Was thinking about how various creations of fiction correspond with certain personality aspects/desires? and biological trends. Golems: (Devoid of Freewill). Lack initiative, slow to build up momentum. Gremlins: (R selected) Tamper with stuff they don't fully understand and generally don't admit they don't understand. Nightmare at 20,000ft..... Hillary Clinton..... Gremlin. Zombies: (R selected). Brains..... Vampires: (Narcissists). Aversion to own reflection. Weak at the heart. Lack of belief in a higher power or others. Werewolves: (?) Medusa: (?) Trolls: (Trolls). Maybe a bit on the side of nihilism. Cyclops: (Too focused?) Though perhaps good at abstracts, like mathematics. Dragons (Avarice) Though seem to represent other ideas as well. Probably thousands of others, any ideas? Could perhaps get a list going, muddle through.

What does it mean to be focused? Specifically what does focus mean as a particular instance? Roses are Red. Is it ever possible to focus on something singular without having context. Could focus be said to be an emotional and logical state? A picture with poor focus is just noise. Without vision what does focus mean? Do more senses mean more understanding? What about long term focus like running a marathon or some other activity, what helps maintain that focus? When I thought about putting "Focus and The Marathon Man" as the title, Marathon Man sounded familiar. Not watched the whole film, but maybe its relevant, the plot at least is on Wikipedia. "Is it safe?"."Is it secret?".

Yeah, HAD to doesn't seem correct, he could have at least of imagined other options. A) hang in the canyon waiting to die. B) choose to speed up the process of death. C) Attempt to free himself causing perhaps significant pain. D) Call for help. Maybe in the end A becomes more painful than C. Like balancing a scale. Maybe Freewill isn't so much an illusion, as an ability. Could ability be said to be an illusion? At the least an ability seems to be more than, the sum of its parts.

There's a video on Youtube called "Christian Justice", maybe not the most tactful. I don't find believing in Christ to be forgiveness for sin, though I do think people who believe in Christ can have a certain strength about them, even if some call it fanaticism.

So someone with less capacity to refrain from doing something immoral for some personal desire, could be said to have less freewill than a person with a greater capacity to refrain from committing an immoral or criminal action? What about in a survival scenario like the guy who got trapped in a canyon, Aron Ralston and had to cut his arm off. Could he be said to be exerting greater freewill by doing so, than by "deciding" to succumb to the elements.

Was wondering if anyone had some fruitful ideas for a fairly apathetic Northern European(me). Maybe a kind of Shock treatment to be less apathetic, though not the Military and not quite SAW level. Not particularly ambitious or addicted to anything in particular, can generally go without most things. Looking for a path of least resistance to ideally go off grid, bunker down somewhere in Europe or anywhere. Would like long term stability, not keen on change, but sometimes seems a necessity. Perhaps presently too comfortable and a bit narcissistic. Believe people should be ethical for the accrued material benefits, not so much on the empathetic side. As an alternative plan, wouldn't mind being part of some organisation to stop the current crises in Europe, would have to cover at least £150-£200 per month in living expenses or bare subsistence. Being effective in someway is important to me, though I'm not entrepreneurial. Would kind of like to See the forest through the trees, empirical information about demographic and economic changes, some sort of "doomsday clock" or "Big Board"

Not unreasonable, not reasonable either. For people to function I think they often need to attach labels to things that become "accepted" as "true" capitals of countries for example. Instead of "Superguy" you could take "Batman" as an example instead. Leaves no empirical evidence just weird unexplained phenomenon. Or "Superman", the problem with Superman being that he can alter the laws of physics reverse time etc, which would seem to destroy the possibility to know anything. Would the world be a better place if you knew their identities or disproved their existence?

Yeah the teeth rotting out my skull did not seem very appealing. Maybe the fact Tyler Durden had some sort of mission and was hard enough to see it through whatever the challenge.

Yes that would be a desired effect. Kind of an alternative to Nationalism, but a way of providing Identity with history that has occurred in the past in a voluntary and mutually beneficial way. Like having a commonwealth in Europe. Though no idea really, on what incentives could be provided to try and establish such a thing, could just be a pipe dream.

Wow, quite a few potentially voluminous topics. I've heard of something called "Dark Matter" mentioned in a few science documentaries, I guess that's perhaps tied up in spatial expansion. Very quickly the thread seems to have become a theoretical physics discussion. Personally most of my understanding is from the odd science documentary. I know Einstein covered Gravity in his Theory of General Relativity, though I have no Idea if other fundamental physical forces were incorporated into some Unified Field Theory by Einstein. Were you pointing out a theological difference between Christianity and Judaism or perhaps Jehovah Witness? If someone were to take the position they were created by God and not perfect, what does that say about God? There is also the question of evolution. I wonder if it is possible to bring empirical information to proving freewill? Are word games essentially sufficient? Fairly heavy mind blowing subjects.

Existence- has mass, can be theoretically separated into atoms, photons etc. States of matter can be measured by various senses. Real-can be subdivided and communicated? You can subdivide a triangle, a square, a sphere... Illusion-can not be subdivided. Christianity(generally Freewill focused), Islam (Deterministic), A Dream, Capitals of countries, A person?, Sherwood forest. A picture of 5 birch "Trees"(stems), when in fact they maybe the same tree(suckers). Freewill - Seems to revolve around choice and past reflection. Just because Freewill is an illusion doesn't mean that I don't find it potentially useful to reflect, is a dream real? What is the driving force behind freewill, sure you can say you have a choice, but to what end? Or continuation? Do you exist? To which I could reply yes I exist. Though I am reminded of an English pianist, who was not able to remember what happened 5 minutes a go but could still play the piano, could people suffering from dementia, Alzheimers, short term amnesia be said to have freewill. Does freewill only "exist" because there are other sentient beings of comparable intelligence to compare thoughts with. Religion- A belief to act in accordance with something with no null hypothesis.

Well ok I'll give you Austria is obviously not next to the sea, but for geographical inclusion and "cultural similarity" I'm thinking all the Scandinavian Countries, Britain, Ireland, Germany, The Netherlands and Flanders. Maybe the Baltic States and Poland as a later focus. But Not France or any of the southern countries. The language of the core countries is fairly similar I'd rather it be Germanic than Arabic. Not a political union but more of a cultural and economic one.

Was wondering what people think of a kind of Neo-Hanseatic League as an idea. Maybe for people in Germany, Sweden and Austria who aren't keen on Identifying with Nationalistic parties could provide a focus point and some form of Identity. Mostly for materialistic self interest and various cultural preservation. Kind of like a European Alt-Right, someone somewhere probably has a similar idea right? Though easier said then done, IMO I'm convinced Nationalist parties have little chance of preventing basically future tribal conflict and mass genocide, on the plus side, kind of makes good TV IMO. Though who really knows 20 years a go this would have seemed insane to many, maybe people should go with "Don't worry about a thing, cause every little things gonna be all right." Sit on a beach smoke some ganja and be a pure Anarcho-Capitalist, a part of me would really like to do that, though the beaches in Europe kind of suck and doing that doesn't seem entirely right.