PatrickC

Thanks for the article Etwa. Right, so it would seem on the surface that Jeff should be bearing 'some' of the responsibility. Despite this very apparent nut job called Ken. On an aside, I find this a fascinating insight into how taking ownership of ones mistakes and keeping integrity are the all important factors to becoming a successful entrepreneur. That said, I'm not facing the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars from people I know, but still.

Wow, that certainly sucked melons Etwa. Sounds like more than few reputations got tarnished in the midst of all this. As has already been suggested elsewhere, the guy sounds like your textbook sociopath. What do you think of Jeff's culpability in all this. I've only ever had one business and the largest contract I ever had involved employing 70 people and only lasted 9 months. I worked night and day on that project, scared stiff I would fuck up. Mainly scared because I had to employ complete strangers for the first time. Fortunately I had two permanent staff that I knew for some years and could rely on to pick up my slack where there simply wasn't enough hours in the day for me. I was offered some bigger projects after this, all of which I turned down, knowing full well I didn't have the resources to guarantee meeting all my contractual obligations. So it's astonishing that an experienced businessman like Jeff literally hands over the reigns of a huge project to a complete stranger, with the excuse that he had no time nor qualification to operate or manage a real estate development. That said, the point of contention I think, is not that he did all the above, but that he's not really owning up to it in any meaningful way. No remorse for his ineptitude or personal responsibility. This is the particular disappointment as I see it, in the response he has so far given. That as well as the point Sal raises too.

"The female leading author of the study Simone Kühn...." I'm already suspicious. I mean seriously, imagine it was a Simon Kuhn making the same paper regarding female intelligence who wear large amounts of makeup. Wait, didn't that just happen somewhere else?

Yeah, not sure how Jeff comes out of this smelling entirely like roses. Blaming it on just this one man, seriously? I do find Jeff's account to be somewhat dubious. I think this Ken Johnson used the oldest trick in the book. Convince these guys they could make billions and then soak them for all they and the final GGC customers had got. I find it had to believe Jeff had not met this before, but perhaps he hasn't. That said, these things happen. It's how he handled damage control thereafter that is my complaint here. I know I'd have been pretty pissed with him myself, if I had been a GGC customer after he'd left the project and remained silent about his removal. I can understand the remining founders and purchasers from last August wanting him to remain silent about it. But seriously, by then I would know this was my reputation that was on the line and would have confessed all to future buyers. I appreciate Jeff lost a lot of money in all this, but that is small change compared to his lifetime repuatation. EDIT - Sounds like Jeff is having his feet held to the fire in the comments section. I think it's telling he has remained silent until Wendy brought it up. This really isn't shaping well for Jeffs integrity.

I will never eat a banana again.

Thanks for sharing. Yes, they certainly go a lot easier on you if you are a lady, as I suspected. That said, of course he is a friend as well, which hopefully would instil more curiosity on his part perhaps. As a man you have to be able to weather considerable shaming and insults from male feminists (and female ones of course). These days I find something particularly degrading when I hear another man support feminism or even just support women no matter what they do. I can no longer have these men in my life, because I know they have the potential to betray me for the charms of a female. What is 'SO'?

I'm curious Hannah, since you are a lady, did these male friends admonish you in any way. Like suggest you were wrong in your perception (if you gave it). Or perhaps were you just on a fact finding mission with these chaps? Which is fine of course.My experience is that when a women suggests an alternative (to feminism) to men ensconced in this ideology, they get confused and attempt to placate. Call me nosy, was just interested in your experience.

If you are on Facebook at all, there Meetup page there where you can join or host local groups. I'm not familiar with any in Nebraska, but someone there will probably point you in the right direction. Welcome! https://www.facebook.com/groups/FDRMeetupEventGroup/

Well, it offers the victim a false sense of virtue and given the reprehensibly poor way the state ascribes proper restitution for them. Some victims will feel it gives them some pride back, particularly if they can express their decision to forgive publicly.

Here Bortasz.. I thought you might enjoy this video on Robin Williams.

Understanding forgiveness from a philosophical position is understandably difficult in our culture. As it's often invoked for all the wrong reasons. But like love is an involuntary response to virtue, so too is forgiveness. Where someone has murdered your wife let's say, than yes, it's probably unlikely that you or anyone else could feel forgiveness for such a person. Since as you suggest, restitution is next to impossible. Even ten million dollars wouldn't suffice compared to losing a life partner or mother to your children. Also more importantly, restitution' is just a way of resolving the issues of personal damages. It can't and shouldn't be considered as a reason to forgive. A perpetrator would probably have to go much further than mere restitution before a victim might forgive them. After restitution would come an apology and thereafter a concerted effort to change their previous behaviour. As I've said before on this topic, forgiveness is completely involuntary. It is wholly dependent on the actions of the perpetrator after the event. In some cases this may never happen, such as the murder of a loved one.

That chap and his style was very funny. Perhaps it's just my British sensibilities, damn them.

Yes, it's probably the most annoying aspect of all are the intelligent guys who refuse to see anything wrong with some of the behaviour of women. Even when the contradiction is pointed out for them. I find in nearly every case they are aware of a female audience, which I've got to guess they are attempting to impress.

Yes Jeremie.. The 'White Knight' is the continuing occasional itch in my own arse. One way I deal with that itch is to integrate and attach myself with virtuous men that aren't driven by their own cocks! EDIT - On a serious aside there is an evolutionary bias that both men and women share. Always protect the ladies. This made sense in the past, when resources were scarce and disease rampant. Losing a lady would mean less babies and ultimately risked the tribes extinction.

Yes, I wanna be clear, that I wasn't dismissing Stefan's views (based on evidence) here at all. I just thought it was potentially interesting regarding society and sexual repression etc. But of course an individuals life is often a lot more complex than Adams is portraying it here. I guess I was taken by the police report upon finding him, if that makes sense.

I was surprised by how compelling Adams point was as Magnus suggests. Perhaps an interesting conversation for both Stefan and Adam to have.

One last pimp before the event kicks off tomorrow. For any London (UK) lurkers at a loose end, you are most welcome. Feel free to PM me and I'll give you my mobile, so we don't miss you. I will also do a quick check of the Meetup website first thing tomorrow morning, in case last minute non Facebookers arrive. Bring some food and some comfortable walking footwear too. Around 10 people coming so far and all confirmed. All the best!

Yes, the article is dreadfully written. The points the author was making were often difficult to follow at first. The gist of it as I could tell was the author sees work as always mundane and a form of enslavement whether it be DWYL as he puts it or not. Certainly enough of an inference or at least a nudge towards the 'livable' wage I think. The funny thing about this opinion and it's not uncommon in our culture. I certainly get there are jobs that are mundane and downright bloody boring. But compared to no work and scrapping by from tilling some dusty earth and attempting to grow potatoes to eat, so you don't starve, I'd know what I would prefer to do.

I think it's the difference between a truth that always is. As in, 'there has always been a universe'. A persistent or constant truth if you like. As opposed to a fleeting truth, as in, 'I am crossing the road.' Probably not the best examples, but I believe that is the difference, broadly speaking. ___________________________________ EDIT - On an aside Fatfist is seen by his fans as a bit of a prodigy of Bill Gaede. I recall him trolling a video of Stefan's a few years back. Challenging him to a live (in person) debate. He was also offereng some kind of reward if anyone (including Stefan) could rebut his argument successfully. A rather loud and obnoxious chap I recall. Who seemed to have little problem in resorting to insults which he would happily spoon feed you with, amongst his assorted word salad.

Who'd have thought the white knights would pounce on this,, My bad clearly.

I think you raise a reasonable objection tjt to my use of the word 'strawman'. Upon reflection that was an inappropriate (incorrect) term to use. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I'm still curious whether you still think comparing actual abuse with that of down voting too still be a reasonable comparison?

No problem Jonny, I expect to be having another Meetup in 2 - 3 weeks time afterwards. If you're on Facebook, we have a group of local members that you are welcome to join. Have a nice weekend in Norfolk! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1438425056435291/

Thanks for sharing this video Bortasz. Most enjoyable. I broadly agree with your comment above. There is a useful symbiotic relationship between FDR and the AVfM or the MRM more broadly, that will facilitate the support and safe future of children. But more importantly many men in the MRM will now probably never have children with crazy ladies, therefore acerbating the future abuse of defenseless children. One thing I like about the MRM and MGTOW community is the opportunity to bond and empathise with men. Which is a new and exciting future for greater and more productive relationships amongst men that have been lost over the decades.

Giving this Meetup an extra pimp. So far 3 people attending.

RuralRon's commentary is a classic example of doubling down. Not listening to anyone other than (what I presume are) his own inner voices. Responding only to them via the immediate comments of others. I seriously say take a step back bro and rethink your position for just a minute.