_LiveFree_

Great work, Kurtis!!

The answer to both of your questions is the same. Two symptoms of one thing. To find the answer you must go through your parent. Persistent, unrelenting, and logical curiosity to find out about your past. Look at everything. Make a timeline. Night terrors and an inability to see basic emotional responses don't just happen. Someone is lying. I'm very sorry.

And this is why I've ignored your post for many months. Back to ignoring you.

An new anonymous acquaintance on an internet forum is not a friend and not what Alice Miller was referring to. Your second point is irrelevant. Therapists are not paid to give you a particular perspective. They are there to assist you in gaining life balance. A therapist who pushes one perspective or another without logically explaining why is a bad therapist.

Yes, resulting in what is termed gender dysphoria.

GuzzyBone, I did not ask you what makes you feel like you're qualified to help Alice. Nice try though?Actually, I don't even think you were aware of how you changed up my question there. When I go to a licensed therapist, I don't ask her, "What makes you feel like you are qualified to help me?" I ask her, "Where did you get your degree? What type of therapy are you trained in?" I know you understand the difference. It takes an enormous amount of expertly guided effort in order to be of psychological help to someone. And it is extremely dangerous to go routing around in someone's brain if you are not trained to do so. Don't believe me? Listen to Stefan's interview with Richard Schwartz, the founder of Internal Family Systems Therapy; especially the part where Dr. Schwartz talks about how he thought he was helping a woman, but he ended up hurting her. What a hard way to learn that your way isn't necessarily what someone else needs. The woman came into their next session with a major cut down her face (self-inflicted). Therapists only stop a client from acting if the client is suicidal or homicidal. Alice is neither. Something good therapists do is ask a lot of questions and get the patient to arrive at conclusions on their own. You are proceeding from a conclusion, with which you intend to approach all of your helpings toward Alice. This is not therapy in the least. This is abuse. Want to convince someone you really want to help them? Be unendingly curious and open to what they have to say. My therapist is always open and curious to what I bring to our sessions. That is why I've stayed with her for two years. We don't always agree, but those are exciting times to explore why we don't agree. You came into this thread with an agenda. Now you're wanting to force that agenda onto someone with the guise of helping them. This is manipulation and moral corruption on an impressive level. You're damn right I'm hostile.

No mention of how you'll feel if proven wrong. That about sums you up, sir. Can't wait to hear the show.

RJ, I think your questions around anger will be answered when you are no longer living with your parents.

What makes you qualified to be of any help?

This thread is the epitome of why philosophy without self-knowledge is truly dangerous. Since you have accused Alice of not pursuing self-knowledge, I'd really like to know to what degree you have worked on self-knowledge.

What surfingthoughts said. One strategy, be honest.

"The Meaning of Life" series by Stefan Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2DCD723AD652910C Because you're looking in the wrong place. Don't go out looking, go in and explore.

Lying fallow and not pursuing new relationships while you work through these issues may be the right course. Timing is as important as effort in new relationships and if you're working to build new relationships then 1) you're building off of standards already in place (some may still be dysfunctional), 2) you're not putting that energy into your self work. Having a good therapist and a couple close friends to talk with is important of course, but self work is hard and is by definition a somewhat solitary affair.

Something to consider: Anger is acute. It happens in the moment, right now. It is the 'fight' response to danger. It happens and then it's gone. Chronic anger is actually rage. Rage is the combination of suppressed anger, horror, and deep sadness. You cannot "let go of" rage nor should you. The only way to rid yourself of it is to express it (in a safe way and in a safe environment). When you're able to go from [boredom-->irritation-->frustration-->anger-->rage-->deep sadness-->release-->exhaustion-->understanding] will you finally be rid of it. Embedded in this process is the 5 Stages of Grief. You're original question could be restated as: How is it possible to ever be free of anger in a world so morally corrupt if you are a moral person? The answer I have found to this question is this: You will never climb a mountain by standing at the base and reaching for the top with your hands. You must place one foot in front of the other continuously and enthusiastically until you reach the summit. In other words, focus on your immediate sphere of influence and forget about the rest. Save yourself everyday and others will catch on. "Holding onto anger" is another way of saying "rage". When anger is expressed healthily, it is expressed as it happens in the moment, and therefore, does not have the chance to turn into rage. Rage can be difficult to see because it gets masked by numbness.

Downvoted. GuzzyBone, you have absolutely no idea what your doing or saying. Your head spinning is not a sign that things are amiss "out here" but "in there". You made so many assumptions about Alice, her struggle, her journey, her choices, and her history that you have no idea about. You think you're trying to help, but you're being very destructive. Reparative therapy alive and well here at Freedomain Radio. sheesh.

There is zero scientific evidence to suggest that any human being has the brain makeup of a dinosaur. Humans and dinosaurs are a completely different species. Dinosaurs are also extinct. jpahmad, to answer your question, you'd have a mental disorder that required psychological treatment. However, your question has nothing to do with transgenderism since brain scans have been conducted showing that the brains of, for instance, transmen, reflects those of cismen, and the same for transwomen and ciswomen. It's a loaded question you're asking filled with incorrect implied premises. What separates transgenderism from borderline personality disorder? 1. Borderling personality disorder cannot be treated with hormone replacement therapy. 2. Not all people with borderline personality disorder are transgender / Not all transgender people are free of borderline personality disorder especially with abuse and murder rates as high as they are for transfolk. 3. Here's some more science... http://transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/

Scientific study using brain scans of transgender people http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.VXoUiqjZWyE

I've tried looking up transgenderism, too. I guess you're right, you did not do a very good job. Wait,...what? You're using an incorrect label out of convenience, recognize it's incorrect, but are going to continue to use it anyway? ..... what? What common goal are you referring to? I do not agree that there is a movement of any kind. Why do you insist on calling it that? Wow, you really haven't done good research at all. http://www.transstudent.org/transvisibility That took all of 30 seconds. Here is some more... http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2012/05/murder-statistics-of-transgender-people/ http://tgeu.org/tmm/ http://www.glaad.org/blog/violence-against-transgender-people-and-people-color-disproportionately-high-lgbtqh-murder-rate http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/trans-murder-rates_n_3824273.html http://planettransgender.com/trans-people-ban-together-and-ask-can-you-stop-killing-us-for-one-week/ From the PlanetTransgender.com article... "A trans woman is slain every 29 hours yet we make up less than 1% of the world’s population. " Up to 5 minutes of research. We'll call it 10 just to be sure. And to have to define terms again, "Gender Expression" may be cultural in some respects for sure. "Gender Identity" is biological in that it's how the brain is wired up. You continue to be confused due to your lack of honest research (please site me a source you've researched), and your ignorance of the terms themselves we are dealing with. It wouldn't be nearly as irritating as it has been for me if you would simply ask questions instead of putting forth conclusions. Real empathy demands curiosity, and it's amazing the degree to which those who are saying transgender folk are psychologically unstable lack curiosity about it all. They are full of conclusions. What do you mean "attempting to change reality". People change reality all the time. When you make a post on this forum, you're changing reality. You've altered reality in some way. So i'm not sure what you mean by this. "Even though you claim scientific evidence is showing that gender identity and biological sex are separate phenomenons, the very act of taking hormones and having sex change reassignment flies in the face of that." - How? You've just made an assertion with no logical argument or evidence. They can do anything they want! As you say....BUT GOD HELP THEM IF THEY WANT TO BE A DIFFERENT SEX! They can't do that! They are mentally ill! Stop them!! Ya know, at this point, engaging you on this topic just doesn't feel worth my time anymore. You're not doing good research. You don't know how to make a logical argument. I seriously doubt you take philosophy or self-knowledge seriously. If I'm wrong about you please PLEASE show me how I'm wrong. I care very much about being right, not about looking like I'm right. And that means I'm open to correction. Are you?

You're doing great up to this point! You've almost identified that it's your understanding of what's happening that is the problem, but then you stop that line of thought. You put forth your own views instead of acknowledging you may not be as educated on transgender folk as you thought. Nor do you show curiosity in order to strengthen your understanding. The questions you ask only come after you've put forth your erroneous views and are asked in a way as to color the response you receive. One of the problems I'm seeing with the way you're perceiving this is that it's "a movement", which implies that every transgender person adheres to certain rules written down on a piece of paper titled "What Transgender People Want". This is not the case. Just as every transgender person is unique, so are their wants and needs. To treat any individual based on a perception of a group they might belong to is the definition of bigotry and antithetical to philosophy. "To my knowledge, transgenderism is about actually getting others to accept a different version of reality." - What does this even mean? How is this not inflammatory? What does "version of reality" mean? Philosophy is the study of knowledge itself. The beginning of wisdom is calling things by their proper names. There is no "version", there is only "what is actually the case"; and this is determined through empirical investigation and/or logical deduction. Scientific and philosophical progress is typically marked by throwing out what we thought we knew in favor of new theories supported by peer reviewed evidence. Scientific evidence is showing that gender identity, how an individual experiences their own gender, and biological sex are two separate phenomenons. In other words, our understanding of reality through scientific investigation, is changing in terms of gender, gender expression, and biological sex. So, since you made one sentence that is inflammatory, here is one back to you. You're interpretation of reality is incorrect, but instead of educating yourself and making the correction, you're blaming a transgender "movement" for your discomfort. This is not philosophy nor is it an exercise in self-knowledge. "He should not expect people to start saying he is female or using she." - Why? How would you feel if instead of addressing you as "labmath2" (which is what you are requesting people call you on this message board; I highly doubt that is your legal name or gender identifier) I called you "dogbiscuit69". This is a serious question, how would you feel about that? "If people get to pick the pronoun they are called, then those pronouns lose their value, we might as well use one pronoun for all humans." - This makes no logical sense whatsoever. And at this point, I'm going to assume you have done much of this philosophy stuff. People should absolutely be able to pick whatever pronoun they would like to be called so that others can properly identify them. Just as you have chosen a "handle" on a message board. If Caitlyn Jenner identifies as female, then she is doing the rest of us a favor by saying "Please use female pronouns." These pronouns do not lose their value, in fact, by using them correctly (e.g. Caitlyn Jenner is now a "she") they maintain their appropriate meaning. Pronouns are not always gender specific (e.g. this, it, that, I, me, we, us, you, they, them, these, those, etc.) We have a pronoun for addressing all humans, "Them" or "They". For individuals in regards to gender, it is entirely respectful and appropriate to ask if unsure what pronouns to use. It is disrespectful to that person to you pronouns with which only you are comfortable. Not only is it disrespectful, it is narcissistic. Empathy is the opposite of narcissism and it means relating to and understanding how another person feels. Empathy naturally occurs and proportionally increases with self-knowledge. "If its about wanting people to treat you differently (since you now look more like the opposite sex), that is simply trying to manage people's perception of you." - No. It's about being respected as a human being and not looked upon as a freak of nature. How would you treat these two ladies? As freaks of nature or with respect? Transgender folk just want to be treated with respect. They suffer not from psychological issues, but an actual physical medical condition (which due to lack of diagnosis and social stigma can lead to other psychological issues like severe depression). Maybe you do not have the training or knowledge to be able to understand that, but the thousands of doctors around the world who work in this field do. If you have any doubt about your understanding of this field, please do some reading on it. There are plenty of resources on the web. "If this is what you mean by gender being a social construct, then the argument should be that people should not act differently to someone based on their gender." - The whole line of thought leading up to this point does not follow. However, it is correct that gender should not change how you treat a person, whether they are male, female, transmale, transfemale, genderless, genderqueer, androgonous, bigender, genderfluid,... Is the movement about removing what cultural expectations are associated with particular gender? - no Is it about getting someone born into one gender to be perceived as the other? If it is neither, how would you describe it in a clear and concise manner? - no Just as there are no such thing as governments, there are so such things as movements. A "movement" is a conceptual idea in order to simplify the common desires of some folk. Only through politics do "movements" get sticky and hang around like immortal fleas. Transgender folk are being discriminated against by ignorant people who do not understand what gender really is and how it relates to biological sex. They see "biologically normal" men "mutilating" their bodies in order to "appear" female. What is really happening is that women born with a condition that makes their bodies develop as male finally have the medical technology at their disposal to change their bodies so that they can live a gender congruent life. This allows for greater happiness and a relieving of serious life threatening depression. I answered your questions. Please answer this one question.... How would you feel if you were forced to take hormones of the opposite sex that you are now, resulting in breast growth if you take estrogen or facial hair growth if taking testosterone, and have sex reassignment surgery to the opposite sex you are now and then live the rest of your life as the opposite sex but stay exactly who you are now mentally? How would you feel? (not what do you think about it, but how would that make you feel)

Got it, thank you. Your implied premise is incorrect: "Biological sex and gender are the same thing." Here is evidence to show that this premise is incorrect. http://www.simplypsychology.org/gender-biology.html http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions.pdf https://www.genderspectrum.org/quick-links/understanding-gender/ I think what you are referring to when you say "assigned sex at birth" is actually "assigned gender at birth". You are correct that at birth, the doctor looks at your naughty bits and sees either a vagina, penis, or some combination of both and labels you female, male, or intersex respectively. However, in doing so he is inadvertently labeling your gender, too. However, gender is not defined by what tools of the trade you possess.

So I'm totally open to the fact that I might have missed something. Here is what I saw.. 1. NumberSix - judging whether or not longterm listeners go to therapy is a purity test 2. MMD - presents facts that most children are spanked. Therefore, their brains are not wired up for rational discussion. Therapy is a great way to gain self-knowledge in order to rewire the brain to better engage in rationality. The basis of philosophy is "know thyself". Even if you are parented peacefully, others around you have not been, and, therefore, you need to know how to navigate a world like that. 3. J. D. Stembal - while spanking is an important topic, it is a small facet of bad parenting. PAUSE This is why I responded. My question, which was not answered, was "Why do you think spanking is a small facet of bad parenting?" The discussion was not about facets of bad parenting. It was about therapy being a necessity for engaging in rational discussion. Why would J.D. make the comments that he made; to emphasize that neglect was more important than spanking? That was not the point MMD was making. He was conveying that virtually every human being has been abused and we only need to look at the spanking statistics to see this. J.D. made a post with a real world example of neglect in order to drive the point home. What I wanted to know is, why? Why is that important to him? Maybe I missed something in the exchange with MMD and NumberSix. As I read this thread, J.D.'s post stuck out to me as not being in flow with the rest of the thread. If I am missing something I'd really like to know what that is.

Please watch "The Truth Facts About Spanking" edit: title corrected

I'm sorry, which comment? Also, you're on a message board. You might not want to assume someone is ignoring you because they did't respond in a timeframe that suited you.

An article on transgenderism in ancient history. http://www.bilerico.com/2008/02/transgender_history_trans_expression_in.php http://www.transgendercare.com/guidance/what_is_gender.htm

While the content of what you're saying, J.D., is important, I totally disagree that spanking is a "small facet" of bad parenting. Spanking is a silly word for physical violence, which has an extremely negative and profound effect on the developing brain. And according to the statistics Mike just posted, the vast majorty of parents engage in this violent behavior. If we could get just half of those parents who spank down to ignoring that would be a major improvement. Why do you think hitting is a small facet of bad parenting?